It's too quiet here

Off Topic
1

It has been too quiet here for the last couple of weeks so I thought I would give the porkchops a chance to spew some venom by posting a letter a letter I received from a friend that is addressed to THE CLINTONS:

Dear Mr. Ex President Clinton:

I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, “Thank me,
I voted for Clinton-Gore.” So, I sat down and
reflected on that, and I am sending my “Thank you” for
what you have done, specifically:

  1. Thank you for introducing us to Jennifer Flowers,
    Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Dolly Kyle Browning,
    Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broderick.

  2. Thank you for teaching my 8 year old about oral
    sex. I had really planned to wait until he was a
    little older to discuss it with him, but now he knows
    more about it than I did as a senior in college.

  3. Thank you for showing us that sexual harassment in
    the work place (especially the White House) and on the
    job is OK, and all you have to know is what the
    meaning of “is” is. It really is great to know that
    certain sexual acts are not sex, and one person may
    have sex while the other one does NOT have sex.

  4. Thank you for reintroducing the concept of
    impeachment to a new generation and demonstrating that
    the ridiculous plot of the movie “Wag the Dog” could
    be plausible after all.

  5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent,
    Gerald Ford look graceful, Richard Nixon look honest,
    Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look
    moral.

  6. Thank you for the 73 House and Senate witnesses who
    have pled the 5th Amendment and 17 witnesses who have
    fled the country to avoid testifying about Democratic
    campaign fund raising.

  7. Thank you, for the 19 charges, 8 convictions, and 4
    imprisonment’s from the Whitewater “mess” and the 55
    criminal charges and 32 criminal convictions (so far)
    in the other “Clinton scandals.”

  8. Thanks also for reducing our military by half,
    “gutting” much of our foreign policy, and flying all
    over the world on “vacations” carefully disguised as
    necessary trips.

  9. Thank you, also, for “finding” millions of dollars
    (I really didn’t need it in the first place, and I
    can’t think of a more deserving group of recipients
    for my hard-earned tax dollars) for all of your
    globe-trotting. I understand you, the family and your
    cronies have logged in more time aboard Air Force One
    than any other administration.

  10. Now that you’ve left the White House, thanks for
    the 140 pardons of convicted felons and indicted
    felons-in-exile. We will love to have them rejoin
    society. (Not to mention the scores you pardoned while
    Governor of Arkansas)

  11. Thanks also for removing the White House
    silverware. I’m sure that Laura Bush didn’t like the
    pattern anyway. Also, enjoy the housewarming gifts
    you’ve received from your “friends.”

  12. Thanks to you and your staff in the West Wing of
    the White House for vandalizing and destroying
    government property on the way out. I also appreciate
    removing all of that excess weight (China, silverware,
    linen, towels, ash trays, soap, pens, magnetic
    compass, flight manuals, etc.) out of Air Force 1. The
    weight savings means burning less fuel, thus less tax
    dollars spent on jet fuel. Thank you!

  13. And finally, please ensure that Hillary enjoys the
    $8 million dollar advance for her upcoming “tell-all”
    book and you, Bill, the $10 million advance for your
    memoirs. Who says crime doesn’t pay!

  14. The last and most important point - thank you for
    forcing Israel to let Mohammed Atta go free. Terrorist
    pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986.
    The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As
    part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in
    1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called
    “political prisoners”. However, the Israelis would not
    release any with blood on their hands. The American
    President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary
    of State, Warren Christopher, “insisted” that all
    prisoners be released. Thus Mohammed Atta was freed
    and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane
    into Tower One of the World Trade Center.

What a guy!!

God bless America
and THANK YOU (once again) for spending my taxes so
wisely and frugally.

SINCERELY,
A US Citizen

PS. Please pass along a special thank you to Al Gore
for “inventing” the Internet, without which I would
not be able to send this wonderful, factual e-mail.

AND THE REST OF THE STORY
Hillary Rodham Clinton, as a New York State Senator,
now comes under the “Congressional Retirement and
Staffing Plan,” which means that even if she never
gets reelected, she STILL receives her Congressional
salary until she dies. (Would it not be nice if all
Americans were pension eligible after only 4 years?)

If Bill outlives her, he then inherits HER salary
until HE dies. He is already getting his Presidential
salary until he dies. If Hillary outlives Bill, she
also gets HIS salary until she dies. Guess who pays
for that?

WE DO!

It’s common knowledge that in order for her to
establish NY residency, they purchased a million
dollar-plus house in upscale Chappaqua, New York.
Makes sense. They are entitled to Secret Service
protection for life. Still makes sense.

Here is where it becomes interesting. Their mortgage
payments hover at around $10,000 per month. BUT, an
extra residence HAD to be built within the acreage to
house the Secret Service agents.

The Clintons charge the Federal government $10,000
monthly rent for the use of that extra residence,
which is just about equal to their mortgage payment.
This means that we, the taxpayers, are paying the
Clinton’s salary, mortgage, transportation, safety and
security, as well as the salaries for their 12 man
staff – and, this is all perfectly legal!

When she runs for President, will you vote for her???

INCOMING!!!

2 
I hate the son of a bitch that sent our troops to mogadishu without decent equipment, armor, close air support, and men, until they were lying on the streets half dead.

Hillary will never have my vote.

I seriously hope we as a nation have good common sense not to bestow such a crime on our service men, as to allow another Clinton to serve as Commander in Chief.
3

Wow man he was such a great president. To bad clinton will never get to read it.

4

lol,

Would you direct me to your sources?

peace,
Meel

5

I got this in my email too. I like how Bush Jr cut health benefits to war veterans. That was a smart move, I’m sure all you guy will agree.

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:
-Ran for congress and lost.
-Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
-Bought an oil company, but couldn’t find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
-Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
-With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments:
-Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
-Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:
-Attacked and took over two countries.
-Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
-Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
-Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
-Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
-First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
-First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
-First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
-After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
-Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
-In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
-Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
-Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
-Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
-Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
-Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
-Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
-Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
-Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
-Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
-Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
-My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
-Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the ‘poorest’ multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
-Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
-Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
-Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
-Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
-First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
-First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
-Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
-Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
-Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
-Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
-First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
-All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
-My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
-Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
-First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
-First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
-First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
-Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
-With a policy of ‘dis-engagement’ created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
-Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
-First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
-Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
-Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
-Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden ‘dead or alive’.
-Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
-In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
-Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
-In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
-Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:
-At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
-AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
-Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
-All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
-All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
-All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
-Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
-For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

6 
Will somebody put this queer babe out of his misery and teach him some real history? (Yes, you Monsiur quebec, or should I say FredBear)
7

“I hate the son of a bitch that sent our troops to mogadishu without decent equipment, armor, close air support, and men, until they were lying on the streets half dead.”

You do know that Bush Sr. made the initial deployment, don’t you? The marines landed in early december of 92. While Clinton can be blamed for not releasing sufficient armor for task force ranger, the basic error which led to that whole episode was the decision not to deploy sufficient intelligence assets to the region in the first place. The whole operation reeked of naivety and amateurism from the beginning.

8

C’mon diesel, he merely did exactly the same in reverse to what Avoids [in the spirit of stirring up a shit storm] did.

You can’t unilaterally accept one set of dross and castigate the other.

9 
 E McKee:

 Bush senior sent the Marines to Somalia. They accomplished their mission very successfully and maintained peace in the region.

 Clinton then took the Marines off Somalia and sent in the Army Rangers and Delta to continue the job. They were denied armor and Close Air Support by the secretary of defense, even though the soldiers repeatedly warned of th danger they were in without the armor and CAS.

 Mogadishu happened.

 Clinton then sent the Marines back in who finished the job. My recruiter for the Marines was a G.I. in this second deployment of Marines to Somalia.


 The mission was very successful until Mogadishu incident. That was caused because Clinto and his secretary of defense wanted to keep it low key, while disregarding legitimate concerns from the troops claiming they didnt think they could make it successfully without supporting armor and Air Support.


  Months later, the secretary of defense met with a soldier who was paralized and blinded at Mogadishu. After the secretary of defense greeted him, he said to him 'we could really have used that armor sir'.


  Every military operation comes with danger. When it becomes exceedingly dangerous it's your job as president and secretary of defense to look at the viable routes to accomplish the mission safely - or call it out altogether.

  Clinton didnt do this. The son of a bitch.


  A 19 yr old Ranger was killed while driving, attempting to reach the location where the black hawk had fallen. He was struck by a rocket powered grenade, two feet long six inches wide, which ripped off his left arm and became imbedded in his chest, it's fin where his arm used to be.

  That's just ONE graphic scene of what coulve been avoided. All he had to do was say 'you have permission to use armored vehicles and Apache helicopters as needed to successfully and safely complete your mission'.

  See, at the end, the troops were scattered all over town. That meant that after they were sent Apaches, they could not go all out and kill the enemy because they'd also kill their own. It made one very complicated mess, that wouldve never happened, had they had the apaches from the very beggining.
10

Yo Monsiur quebec, is all that real?, why the hell would they let someone like that be president. I think everyone just likes to kiss his ass, our prime ministers mouth is permanantly attached to Bush’s corn hole.

11

Fortunately, Bill Clinton is now in the past for us but…

That scary Hillary is on the way!!!

If you thought Bill was a disaster, wait until Hillary runs for president!

Get my vote? That’s not even funny!

Just say NO!!!

12

MONSIOUR is an idiot. 95% of the crap he just copied and pasted is pure accusation only and in fact utter BS. So, GW took over two countries huh?..which ones?..We defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan and freed the people of Iraq. We don’t defeat a country and then colonize that country. We usually spend millions REBUILDING a country and leave it better than we found it. You would think we would be colonizing these supposed places we took over if you listen to this guys crap!! Your a dork…keep your liberal b.s. to yourself. The readers here are too clever to believe anything you can spew out.
Stupid dork…I bet your one of those geeks who do barbell curls in the squat rack!!!

13

Diesal:
I wrote a fairly long reply which this FUCKING FORUM ate. Maybe I’ll rewrite it tomorow. In any event the basic point was that the lack of intelligence assets, basic understanding of the local politics, and certain external factors (among them OSB, the NIF, and some other groups based out of the EIJ) made conflict inevitable. Lack of armor only exacerbated what would have already been a bit of a disaster. The whole operation was a time bomb waiting to go off. I’ll fill in the details next time.

14

Bush hasn’t declared victory yet JUST BECAUSE then the USA would have to spend a bunch to rebuild it. It isn’t so much the access to the liberated/freed Iraqi oil, control is good enough.

15

Oh yeah, I feel for ya down under synerjism. I heard you’ve got a PM who isn’t really Australian. We had Mulroney who was also just a patsy for Reagan/Bush from 84-93 & the country has never been worse off. He’s still got the record for lowest approval rating of any western leader at 8%. You’re Prime Minister is a sucker; it’s a real shame because Australia is a cool place. & yeah all that stuff is true & of course nobody would elect a president like that. That’s why Jeb Bush & his secretary of state in Florida had 57000 names taken off the voters lists in the 2000 election.

16

“C’mon diesel, he merely did exactly the same in reverse to what Avoids [in the spirit of stirring up a shit storm] did.”

Hehehe. You’re correct as usual Iscariot. It’s almost as good as the smell of napalm in the morning. I am disappointed though that Restless hasn’t stopped pulling his pug long enough to weigh in on this thread. YOOHOO Restless. Donde estas? (His posts always make my workouts more effective.)

17 
E McKee. This is a fact: had clinton allowed armor or at the very least close air support from appaches, the men would never have gotten scattered all over town. The appaches wouldve eliminated the enemy in a heartbeat because theyd simply have to shoot everything in sight without fear of hurting friendlies.
 They wouldve been able to evacuate the wounded through a helicopter because the enemy would be under control.


 http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/sitemap.asp


 Go that web adress. It's the online version of the book 'black hawk down' posted on the Philadelphia Enquirer website. read it. You'll come out with a better understanding of everything that went on that day.


 Quote: ' SGT. KENNY THOMAS was just a few feet away when Earl Fillmore went down. [ ].Thomas happened to be looking right at Fillmore when suddenly the back of Fillmore's little hockey helmet blew out.

He saw Fillmore pitch forward on his face. The sight of the tough, confident Delta sergeant stretched out motionless with his nose in the dirt horrified Thomas. As Fillmore was dragged from the line of fire, Thomas went over to Sgt. First Class Sean Watson.

``He needs a Medivac [medical evacuation] or he’s going to die,‘’ Thomas said.

``There’s no way to get him out by helo [helicopter]. No way anybody’s getting in here,‘’ Watson said.

It was dawning on the men who had moved from the target building toward the crash site that they were now cut off from help. They weren’t even sure how far they were from Wolcott’s bird. They had split haphazardly into several groups, each pinned down somewhere near the crash site. No one was in charge.’

The men were dying from lack of medical attention and because they coulnt be evacuated. They were scattered all around and the chain of command was broken - no one was answering to anyone.

Now tell me, do you think this situation shouldve been allowed to get this bad, where its impossible to get in any air support, air evac, or even ground support, because the enemy is now in control?

An Appache from the beggining - an armored helo - would have simply overflown the building where somalis stood with their missiles, and shot em down by the masses.
Air evac helos would then be safe to return to Mogadishu without great risk of being shot down - soldiers that died wouldve been saved.
The chain of command wouldve never been broken down the way it was. The Ranger envoy sent to secure the crash site wouldve never have gone through what they were through - where one of the drivers ended up with a missile imbedded in his chest without his left arm.

All it took was to send a few Apaches with the troops from the beginning - not at the end once chain of command was broken, half of the soldiers were in desperate need of medical attention/dead, those who were alive were trying to protect those who needed medivac, and once they were scattered all over town, and nobody knew where the others were.

The reason why Clinton refused to send them Armor and Close Air Tactical Support (CATS)? He wanted to keep the mission low profile, and thus only allowed them only light machine guns and the kind.

 That is why I dont like the idea of electing a US President who never served in the armed forces. You simply cannot have a good understanding of the dangers and needs of those who serve everyday.

Clinton was an idiot bar-none.

18 
 Monsior Quebec, I see how being a resident of Montreal gives you expertise in the matters of US politics, and more specifically about our President, GWB.

 Worry not, I didnt forget about you. While I am a tad busy at the time, I will show exactly how absurd each of your 'facts' are.

 Be on standby.
19

Diesal:
I’m not sure what I have posted at this point because of this god damn forum, but, as I said, the lack of armor only exacerbated the situation. The helicopters would have gone down regardless and a fire fight would have still ensued. I was never arguing to the contrary. The point I believe I made in each of my posts is that the US was in a hornets nest and didn’t know it because of shitty intel. If the US had known, they would have reduced operations and possibly withdrawn substantially sooner.

The US mission was to end the famine, not to nation build, but nation build it did when it participated in UNOSOM II. Intervening in a civil war is an excellant way to get bloodied up, especially if it’s a western power in the muslim world. The famine was over by Mar. 93, but the US began combat operations against Aidid after the June incident with the Pakistanis-- which should have served as a warning. Combine the warlords power interests-- which were diametricly opposed to the UN peace process-- with the intervention of outside figures like OBL, and you have a recipe for disaster. It is quite questionably to what extent the islamisist intervention could have been predicted/detected, although there were signals in the air which might have been understood had they been investigated more thoroughly at the time. There is a whole argument down that road, but in any event, the islamists who were there came mostly from afganistan and sudan. Why? To fight another afganistan. One of the methods they taught the local somalis was how to shoot down a helicopter, perfected against soviet gunships in afganistan. First, hide with your RPG on a rooftop or near a high window or balcony of choice. Second, wait 'till the helicopter passes overhead. Third, emerge and fire on the tail rotor. Apaches and close air support would have done nothing but get themselves shot down. This is somewhat irrelevent though.

The better question in this debate though is why the US was caught with its pants down on the arming of 10,000 civilians to fight against its presence? Why was the US unaware of their willingness to fight? That is hardly a small scale mobilization by any standard and demonstrates a gross failure in intelligence capabilities. Why did the US so grossly underestimate the loyalties of the masses to the warlords? There were specific tactical intelligence failures in the operation to capture Aidid itself, but I’m focusing on the big picture errors which brought the US to that situation.

20

E McKee, excellent post on the Mogadishu matter. Theres alot more to it than whats in Black Hawk Down.

Diesel, for such a complicated issue its necessary to look at cultural, economic, and historical factors - some of which appear to have been misunderstood by US intelligence.
(I’m far from expert on this event so I’ll shut up now)

Now it seems the same has happened with Iraq. Anyone see Meet the Press where there is growing discussion over what, if any, pre-war intelligence can be trusted?

And now Washington has cut communication with Iran, with Rumsfeld saying “regime change is needed” due to their ties with Al-Quaida.

Is there a single shred of evidence?

problematic issues aplenty