Keeping it light. Hopefully this offends snowflakes less than poor Cuomo’s nipples.
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Yeah it’s definitely not a death wish but the comparisons to the flu haven’t ever made sense (and we largely debunked that in this thread). Hoping you family gets through this man.
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Interesting interview with one of the UK’s premier historians. If what he’s saying is true, then heads will roll in the U.K.
Wow.
“Economic Suicide.”
There are similar sentiments in the States, @Legalsteel.
I always ask this question: IF the reaction was indeed an overreaction; how is it corrected at this point? What IS the the correct model moving forward?
I don’t know about the UK; but here in the States, things either open up, or the reaction will be violent. Mr. Starkey also points out on more than one occasion individuals and institutions wanting to “save face”. I think that is very true, especially with politicians. How many in the States are willing to say “Hey…it’s time to take a different approach”.
Very few, I’m afraid.
By the way, @Legalsteel.
Books, videos…you name it…are already made and in the works which are overwhelmingly on the side of the reaction to the virus being one huge clusterfuck.
My feeling is that very few will be written about it being a Public Health “victory”.
Holy crap, that was some drivel. I’ll post a lengthy rebuttal when I find the time.
Don’t let the posh accent fool you. This is a guy with an agenda, and in the US he would be a FOX talking head.
“A crisis latching onto already existing deep political divisions”.
@loppar and @Legalsteel…agree or disagree; this sure as hell has become the case in the United States.
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Ironically, both Starkey and US right wing figures are behaving in a way that would be instantly familiar to every communist political commissar - ideology over everything else.
Responses to pandemics, natural disasters and so on are by definition collectivist. That’s it. There’s no respect for private property when there’s a raging forest fire and the firemen have to trample on someone’s property. It’s not a stealthy way to introduce communism.
For some reason, the right has chosen this as a hill to die on. If people have to die in the name of an ideology, then so be it. Lockdowns are bad, not because of their economic consequences, but because they’re by nature collectivist.
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Herein lies my problem, guys.
It will be impossible to prove that if the United States; a huge, diverse, highly-traveled, mobile, international destination; would have been much worse off if the measures that were taken were NOT taken.
Now the scream is out there “LOOK AT SWEDEN! LOOK AT SWEDEN!”
Can one truly make comparisons between Sweden and the U.S. and come to valid conclusions?
I really don’t know. I am just throwing it out there for discussion.
First of all, it’s not business as usual in Sweden. I work with individuals based in Sweden and they’re all working from home - they’re employed in large white collar companies and were sent home immediately.
That may be a biased sample, so I would appreciate if someone from Sweden would comment.
Also this, should end all discussion about the “Swedish model”. From
Sweden
Denmark
It’s not a choice. There’s no other option but to stop the pandemic.
@Voxel lives in Sweden
EXACTLY. With no “mandatory lockdown”.
Please fit the “LA model” into your thinking.
And most rational observers know that all the stats are so politicized now that they can no longer be trusted. Save your “official” stats.
Stop the madness.
Reads suspiciously like the car accidents kill people so stop driving “analogy” youse are so critical of.
When a raging forest fire hits your house, your house will show “symptoms” 100% of the time.
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You’re a hammer, and everything is a nail.
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I look forward to it. My specific point regarding the ‘heads rolling’ was his scoop regarding the government making a political decision to save the face of the NHS. That would be explosive.
Agreed, it’s always good to take anything he says with a bucket of salt.
A fair point and one I’d very much appreciate a Swede commenting on, if we have any reading.
I recall someone telling me that 40% of Swedes live alone, but I don’t know how true that is.
What happens if by the time you realize your house is on fire you’ve set six other houses on fire?
If you like the raging forest fire analogy, we obviously disagree on many levels, and have nothing to discuss on this issue.
As analogies go, I’d offer the lockdown is like the rule in apartment complexes that you can’t operate a grill on your balcony. Yeah, most people would do it responsibly and be careful without endangering anyone else but the risk is that some dumbass in the apartment complex won’t be, they will do something stupid and wind up burning the apartment complex down and with it lots of other people’s homes and stuff - thus forcing the consequences of their dumb choice/mistake on everyone else who lives in the same building.
All it takes is one dumbass to wreck the lives of others in that situation. Lockdown operates on the same principle.
You know that guy who said “Give me liberty or Give me death”?
Yeah. He died from some stomach ailment in his senior years.
These hills to die on are fine as long as it’s other people doing the dying.
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Well, @loppar’s analogy merely represents a settled truth in American law and politics - in a public health emergency, we (temporarily) subordinate other rights to try and prevent something worse from happening. If you don’t like it, maybe hop on a time machine and take it up with the Founding Fathers.