[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
It’s not a crescent moon. This is where the logo comes from:
http://knowledgepublications.com/doe/images/DOE_Nuclear_Bohr_Model_of_the_Atom.gif[/quote]
But that makes no sense! Why would a department concerned with the reactions of atoms use that mode-- oh.[/quote]
Niels Bohr was a well know Muslim Fundamentalist, didn’t you know?
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
You must be joking.
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
They won’t touch pork.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
You must be joking.[/quote]
Enlighten us, what is so bad about Islam?
^^ It’s all in how you choose to define the words of Muhammed. The bible has violent parts, does that make everyone who worships Jesus a terrorist?
If Muhammed really did preach what extremists believe, then you would have ALL devout Muslims turning to violence, why aren’t they?
…i’ve been told by our resident believers that you shouldn’t judge a religion on the actions of some of it’s believers, and that you should read the bible within the context of the time it was written in. Why is that any different for islam?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
You must be joking.[/quote]
Enlighten us, what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
[/quote]
The problems associated with the practice of Islam are not solely rooted in the religion itself, but rather are dramatically exacerbated by the dangers of fundamentalism and the perils of evolving religion into a theocracy. Fundamental Christianity or Judiasim have literally yielded the same effects as Islam in different time periods e.g. the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the pitiful role of christian women throughout most of human history. Therefore it is wrong to single out Islam for it’s maladaptive practices or proclaim that the religion will never change as you are insinuating.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
^^ It’s all in how you choose to define the words of Muhammed. The bible has violent parts, does that make everyone who worships Jesus a terrorist?
If Muhammed really did preach what extremists believe, then you would have ALL devout Muslims turning to violence, why aren’t they?
[/quote]
You’re going to have to do better than that…
Do you know anything about “The Prophet’s” life?[/quote]
yes. The same turmoil happening in Islam is what happened in Europe during the Wars of Religion in the 1600s. They are and will continue to be in a state of civil and interstate wars as long as their societies are finding the balance between government and religion.
Islamic extremists would fall into the broad category of individuals who feel exploited and unequally treated by the developing world around them. Its almost a physical manifestation of their perceived inadequacies that they take down the tallest towers and symbols of Western civilization’s power.
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
You must be joking.[/quote]
Enlighten us, what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
[/quote]
The problems associated with the practice of Islam are not solely rooted in the religion itself, but rather are dramatically exacerbated by the dangers of fundamentalism and the perils of evolving religion into a theocracy. Fundamental Christianity or Judiasim have literally yielded the same effects as Islam in different time periods e.g. the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the pitiful role of christian women throughout most of human history. Therefore it is wrong to single out Islam for it’s maladaptive practices or proclaim that the religion will never change as you are insinuating.
[/quote]
Christians are first to tell you that the Crusades were wrong. The difference between them and the Islamic Fundamentalists, are the Crusades were a holy war against other warriors of the time. Was there colateral damage of women and children dying yes, but it was a war against another waring faction. Strapping a bomb to yourself and going to a market place would not constitute as war, but of terrorism.
I agree that if we wait a few hundred years Islam might become more democratic or moderate, but the clerics have control of all information. In this day and time with all the information on the internet the people still can not read and information is censored coming into the countries. The time of the crusades books were not easy to come by, and they did not have the internet. The people had to listen to the priests to gain access to the word of God. The Quran should be readily available to all of Islamic Faith. I agree that the Islamic world is more of a Theocracy, and until the rulers are separate from the theologians they will not be able to over throw them.
^^ holy war, my ass.
Under the feudal system, the lords (knights) were parasites living off peasants and undermining the Kings’ profits. Usually knights were train and send their peasants to fights another lord for a little more land. The Kings and religious blue bloods got tired of this and sent them all to pillage another region of the world.
The faith isn’t the problem, never was. Most Muslims don’t involve themselves in terrorist activities, they don’t have the time or money. Most Muslims protest America and the West, when they do get to protesting and demonstration, cause they have the correct belief that the West isn’t their friend. Look, Islamic revolutionaries did not evolve in a vacumn, there was a lot of outside influence, read Western influence, that had a damaging effect on the relationship between the Meso-Mediterranean world and the Latin-Mediterranean world. Its far deeper than Islam-Christianity
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
… and what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
You must be joking.[/quote]
Enlighten us, what is so bad about Islam?[/quote]
[/quote]
The problems associated with the practice of Islam are not solely rooted in the religion itself, but rather are dramatically exacerbated by the dangers of fundamentalism and the perils of evolving religion into a theocracy. Fundamental Christianity or Judiasim have literally yielded the same effects as Islam in different time periods e.g. the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the pitiful role of christian women throughout most of human history. Therefore it is wrong to single out Islam for it’s maladaptive practices or proclaim that the religion will never change as you are insinuating.
[/quote]
Christians are first to tell you that the Crusades were wrong. The difference between them and the Islamic Fundamentalists, are the Crusades were a holy war against other warriors of the time. Was there colateral damage of women and children dying yes, but it was a war against another waring faction. Strapping a bomb to yourself and going to a market place would not constitute as war, but of terrorism.
I agree that if we wait a few hundred years Islam might become more democratic or moderate, but the clerics have control of all information. In this day and time with all the information on the internet the people still can not read and information is censored coming into the countries. The time of the crusades books were not easy to come by, and they did not have the internet. The people had to listen to the priests to gain access to the word of God. The Quran should be readily available to all of Islamic Faith. I agree that the Islamic world is more of a Theocracy, and until the rulers are separate from the theologians they will not be able to over throw them.[/quote]
Ignorant much? You think the Islamic kingdoms during the Crusades were fighting a war against the Crusaders? They were invaded, and the Crusaders were notorious for brutality against Muslims and Jews. Further, the devastation on Christians these Crusaders wrought is almost as terrible. They sacked the Christian city of Constantinople, then went home without even reaching the “Holy Land” one time. And I guess you don’t consider the American troops OCCUPYING Afghanistan and Iraq as warriors either.
I also like the part where the Crusades were “a war against other warriors of that time”-
In the first crusade they slaughtered Muslim inhabitants of Jerusalem and killed quite a few Jews when they were not even out of their own country.
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
^^ holy war, my ass.
Under the feudal system, the lords (knights) were parasites living off peasants and undermining the Kings’ profits. Usually knights were train and send their peasants to fights another lord for a little more land. The Kings and religious blue bloods got tired of this and sent them all to pillage another region of the world.[/quote]
I will agree with what you say about the second and third crusade which proves that they were not actually acting in the will of God. The first was the only one truely a holy war to take back the holy land for the Christians, this one is debatable whether or not it was willed by God or by man. The third one did not even make it to the holy land, they instead went and sacked Constantinople which was the center of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Once that happened the Turks took over and changed the name to Istanbul.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/quote]
Are you serious?
“You should not let a sorceress live.” (Exodus 22:17)
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)
“A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.” (Leviticus 20:27)
“Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.” (Exodus 21:15)
“If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.” (Leviticus 20:10)
“Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.” (Exodus 22:19)
“Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. ‘The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.’” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
" Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death." (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)
Christians engaged in the Crusades. The Inquisitions. The Pequot Massacre, about which, we have this quote from William Bradford:
“It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stink and scent thereof; but the victory seemed a sweet sacriface, and they gave the praise thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to enclose their enemies in their hands and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enemy.”
Christians used their religion to justify slavery in America. And do we really need to go into the murderous history of the Spanish Christians in South America?
I second the question: what is so bad about Islam?
As long as we agree that religion is a tool of the powerful, the opium of the masses, and does not have any inherent characteristics that lead it toward good or evil.