Is This Stealing?

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
The other day I really needed sunglasses because I drive all day. But, I didn’t have any money. So I went into Wal Mart and took a pair of sunglasses WITHOUT PAYING. Then once I got payed, I returned the glasses without telling anybody and bought a pair. [/quote]

Let’s get technical here. In most states, stealing means you take someone’s property with “the intent to permanently deprive them thereof.”

If you intended to give the glasses back, or to pay for them later, it might not legally be stealing. Since you didn’t intend to permanently deprive Wal-Mart of the glasses.

It might be unethical, though.

Law and ethics are not the same thing.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
The other day I really needed sunglasses because I drive all day. But, I didn’t have any money. So I went into Wal Mart and took a pair of sunglasses WITHOUT PAYING. Then once I got payed, I returned the glasses without telling anybody and bought a pair.

Let’s get technical here. In most states, stealing means you take someone’s property with “the intent to permanently deprive them thereof.”

If you intended to give the glasses back, or to pay for them later, it might not legally be stealing. Since you didn’t intend to permanently deprive Wal-Mart of the glasses.

It might be unethical, though.

Law and ethics are not the same thing.

I’ll never buy another lawn mower again then. I will ‘borrow’ one once a week from Walmart, mow my lawn, return it and do it all over again next week.

I’ll be an unethical lawn mowing dude but I will save on all the maintenance and such. I will rationalize my lack of ethics by contributing the money I’ll save to a charity.[/quote]

that is how I plan on getting my next car

just change it out each day, but I will bring it back

That would be vandalizing property - a crime.

They could also sue you for conversation.

So your plan wouldn’t work.

If you were somehow able to “borrow” a lawn mower every week for an appreciable amount of time, you might be able to start a security consulting firm, since you’d obviously know the cracks in their system.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:

They could also sue you for conversation.
[/quote]

Um…

Conversion.

“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”
B. Clinton

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
pushharder wrote: I’ll never buy another lawn mower again then. I will ‘borrow’ one once a week from Walmart, mow my lawn, return it and do it all over again next week.

That would be vandalizing property - a crime.

They could also sue you for conversation.

So your plan wouldn’t work.

If you were somehow able to “borrow” a lawn mower every week for an appreciable amount of time, you might be able to start a security consulting firm, since you’d obviously know the cracks in their system.[/quote]

If vandalism is the “willful or malicious destruction or defacement of public or private property” according to Merriam-Webster, then how would using a product for it’s intended purpose be vandalism.

But I’m sure that many folks would like to sue Push for conversation.

[quote]AlteredState wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I actually think we agree that there are some instances where you have to break the law, or better, where you make a conscious decision to break the law.

The only difference is I acknowledge that I have broken the law and committed a criminal act. What I am inferring from you is that you think the backstory of the criminal act makes it not a criminal act.

It’s a criminal act. The motivations might have an influence on sentencing if a person happens to get caught, charged and brought to Court. The committed act broke the law. Some actions are black and white. It doesn’t mean that the outcomes are black and white.

but I would not let my morality, or the Court’s morality rule over my starving family

I think the chief difference between us is that the law meamns nothing to me, from a moral perspective.

I only concern myself with the law as it relates to getting caught and being punished. I live my my own code, which just happens to co-incide with some of the laws of the land.

As such, terms like ‘criminal act’, etc mean sod all to me. The law’s an ass quite frankly.

I would never rob someone. Not because the law says I can’t, but because my own moral compass says so.

I suppose you could say I live my life by ethics, not the law.[/quote]

Good luck with that.

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
On a more relevant note, I highly doubt the OP has such sensitive vision he NEEDS shades to drive for a couple hours. If he did he would’ve (hopefully) had the common sense to, you know, have sunglasses with him when he knows he has to drive all day. Otherwise he’s an idiot, has none of this fabled “common sense”, or has amnesia. [/quote]

My vision does suck and I lost both of my pairs. I don’t have medical and if I could I would borrow that too.

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
hungry4more wrote:
On a more relevant note, I highly doubt the OP has such sensitive vision he NEEDS shades to drive for a couple hours. If he did he would’ve (hopefully) had the common sense to, you know, have sunglasses with him when he knows he has to drive all day. Otherwise he’s an idiot, has none of this fabled “common sense”, or has amnesia.

My vision does suck and I lost both of my pairs. I don’t have medical and if I could I would borrow that too.

[/quote]

poor you

life doesn’t owe you anything

So the big question is did you return them in the same condition that you stole them in?

BTW…stealing is stealing…especially when you use the words “So I went into WalMart and took a pair of sunglasses WITHOUT PAYING”

I did something like that once when I was 7…my mom made me go back to the store and tell the manager what I did…I think you should do the same (I know I’m a better person for it…thought I was going to prison at age 7)

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I would “vandalize” the lawn mower EXACTLY the way the OP was vandalizing the sunglasses.[/quote]

He said he PAID for them. You said you would not.

You can spray paint almost whatever you want on your own garage door. You can even kick in it. Break your own windows. It’s all good.

You can’t do that to someone else’s property.

Ownership is usually the key issue in vandalism or destruction of property cases.

LOL. Conversion: Conversion (law) - Wikipedia

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote: poor you

life doesn’t owe you anything[/quote]

Why does he owe Wal-Mart anything? Why can’t he steal? Because the law says he can’t.

The law has said all sorts of things. You couldn’t get an abortion under the law, until very recently.

At one time, according to the law, you could OWN other people. Slavery was legal.

Must one always follow the law? If you had lived in Germany and a Jew had sought refuge, would you have called the police? That is what the law required?

I don’t think the issues are as simple as you and others make them out to be.

What about steroids? Those are against the law. So everyone who uses them here should be deemed a scum bag criminal? Why not?

How are the guys here who use illegal drugs morally superior to the guy who borrowed a pair of glasses from Wal-Mart?

[quote]AlteredState wrote: I think the chief difference between us is that the law meamns nothing to me, from a moral perspective.

I only concern myself with the law as it relates to getting caught and being punished. I live my my own code, which just happens to co-incide with some of the laws of the land.

As such, terms like ‘criminal act’, etc mean sod all to me. The law’s an ass quite frankly.

I would never rob someone. Not because the law says I can’t, but because my own moral compass says so.

I suppose you could say I live my life by ethics, not the law.[/quote]

This is true of MOST people, including the people ripping the OP a new one.

I GUARANTEE that most of the people ripping him a new one for “breaking the law” use steroids, speed, cheat on their taxes, show up late for work or SURF THE FREAKING INTERNET WHILE AT WORK.

If you post on this very site during working hours (i.e., when not on an official break), then you have stolen money from your employer. That’s because your time does not belong to you. You must dutifully do your job when no on break. That means no interwebs.

I’m willing to bet most of the people here ripping the OP a new one have stolen way more than $20 from their employers by surfing the web on company time.

Things that make you go hmm… huh?