[quote]Wreckless wrote:
The important question is: how can you not have money for sunglasses ?
The only valid answer would be: I’m six years old and my daddy doesn’t give me any allowance.[/quote]
Or maybe our nation is in an economic crisis. (Considering you’re in America.)
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.
Folks try to justify what they know is wrong.
To be clear, he stole the glasses. I also think he’s fibbing about the whole story.
You’ve got some ethics issues my friend. Do not romanticize a criminal action. Stealing is stealing and there is not justification. At least be an adult and call yourself the petty thief that you are.
I have to disagree with you here OG. Sure stealing is stealing, but it can be justified in certain circumstances.
If I can’t feed my family and the only resort left to me is theft of food, you better believe I will do that, and still sleep at night.
I see fatcat bosses ‘stealing’ from the public all the time, yet because it’s not technically illegal they get away with it.
Personally I try to live by my own moral code and not rely on aphorisms like your “Stealing is stealing and there is not justification”. The world is not that black and white in my opinion.[/quote]
You justification for stealing means NOTHING in the eyes of the law. Stealing IS stealing, period. Most people would resort to stealing in order to survive, but it’s still stealing.
“I see fatcat bosses ‘stealing’ from the public all the time, yet because it’s not technically illegal they get away with it.” Please elaborate.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I went to the closest Hummer dealership and hot wired an H2. I promise to pay for it as soon as I win the lotto.
Is this wrong? I mean, I need transportation and my feet hurt.[/quote]
When you figure a way to not steal the gas you’re gonna need, let me know. I need a Ferrari Enzo Coupe for the same reason.
Yes it is stealing. Plain and simple.
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
I have to disagree with you here OG. Sure stealing is stealing, but it can be justified in certain circumstances.
If I can’t feed my family and the only resort left to me is theft of food, you better believe I will do that, and still sleep at night.
I see fatcat bosses ‘stealing’ from the public all the time, yet because it’s not technically illegal they get away with it.
Personally I try to live by my own moral code and not rely on aphorisms like your “Stealing is stealing and there is not justification”. The world is not that black and white in my opinion.[/quote]
Both of your examples feature stealing. The “fatcat bosses” are morally at fault whether they’re held criminally liable or not.
If I were faced with the first example, needing food to feed my family, I would do so. But that wouldn’t make it not stealing and it wouldn’t make it right. It would make it an unfortunate thing I had to do when there seemed no good choice or solution.
Taking that which belongs to another by unfair means is not right, whether it seemed the only option available to you at the time or not.
It’s stealing!
But then again it was from a Wal-Mart, so it’s sort of a payback for the way that corporation has damn near destroyed the small merchants of the nation. 
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.
Folks try to justify what they know is wrong.
To be clear, he stole the glasses. I also think he’s fibbing about the whole story.
You’ve got some ethics issues my friend. Do not romanticize a criminal action. Stealing is stealing and there is not justification. At least be an adult and call yourself the petty thief that you are.
I have to disagree with you here OG. Sure stealing is stealing, but it can be justified in certain circumstances.
If I can’t feed my family and the only resort left to me is theft of food, you better believe I will do that, and still sleep at night.
I see fatcat bosses ‘stealing’ from the public all the time, yet because it’s not technically illegal they get away with it.
Personally I try to live by my own moral code and not rely on aphorisms like your “Stealing is stealing and there is not justification”. The world is not that black and white in my opinion.[/quote]
It is still stealing.
There are hungry people that don’t steal.
It is a moral choice.
I would probably be with you on this one that I would steal, I would rob, I would sell my body on the streets if my family needed food, but I would know that it was wrong.
What if what I stole forced that person to spiral into bankruptcy and suddenly his family has no food?
There is black and white. Just accept that what you did was a crime. It was a crime. Your reasons may make what you did “less bad”, but it is still a crime.
I kind of hate the whole “Robin Hood” defense. It is like spin control trying to make something noble.
but like I said, I would be planning a heist with you if my family and loved ones needed it. I just would know I was officially a criminal.
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.[/quote]
Nice rationalizations. Complete and utter BS. Can you justify killing someone who looks like they may be a danger at some point in the future? If the OP didn’t have the cash, he shoulda used a credit card, or gone and asked someone he knew to loan him some cash until he could pay them back.
Theft is theft, no matter how you, or he, wants to rationalize it.
Borrowing without permission is stealing.
You really can’t compare the morality of someone who steals food because they are hungry with someone who takes a pair of sunglasses.
Either one is stealing though.
[quote]sands wrote:
RhunDraco wrote:
“So, I killed this guy’s son by running the little brat over with my car. Later on, I felt bad, so I went back and knocked up his wife to make up for it. Was that wrong?”
Only if you also stole beer from his fridge afterwards
[/quote]
kill his kid,knock up his wife,
but never,ever,ever,ever steal a mans beer
that is unexcusable
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
AlteredState wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.
Folks try to justify what they know is wrong.
To be clear, he stole the glasses. I also think he’s fibbing about the whole story.
You’ve got some ethics issues my friend. Do not romanticize a criminal action. Stealing is stealing and there is not justification. At least be an adult and call yourself the petty thief that you are.
I have to disagree with you here OG. Sure stealing is stealing, but it can be justified in certain circumstances.
If I can’t feed my family and the only resort left to me is theft of food, you better believe I will do that, and still sleep at night.
I see fatcat bosses ‘stealing’ from the public all the time, yet because it’s not technically illegal they get away with it.
Personally I try to live by my own moral code and not rely on aphorisms like your “Stealing is stealing and there is not justification”. The world is not that black and white in my opinion.
It is still stealing.
There are hungry people that don’t steal.
It is a moral choice.
I would probably be with you on this one that I would steal, I would rob, I would sell my body on the streets if my family needed food, but I would know that it was wrong.
What if what I stole forced that person to spiral into bankruptcy and suddenly his family has no food?
There is black and white. Just accept that what you did was a crime. It was a crime. Your reasons may make what you did “less bad”, but it is still a crime.
I kind of hate the whole “Robin Hood” defense. It is like spin control trying to make something noble.
but like I said, I would be planning a heist with you if my family and loved ones needed it. I just would know I was officially a criminal.
Well you see I wouldn’t rob. I consider it a basic need to have food. A need that I will ‘bend’ my moral code for.
I wouldn’t steal any more than was necessary and I would eat every last scrap of the food I stole.
I wouldn’t steal it off an individual or familly, but off a corporation that can afford to take the minor loss.
And there’s no way I would consider myself a ‘criminal’ for doing so.
I mean if you by the rules you seem to be advocating, you are a criminal for speeding. Black and white. You broke the speeding limit, ergo you are a criminal.
Few things are black and white to my mind. The only thing I cannot see a shade of grey on is the predation of children by paedophiles. Even say incest, whilst morally repugnant to me, may be understandable given an extreme set of circumstances.[/quote]
I actually think we agree that there are some instances where you have to break the law, or better, where you make a conscious decision to break the law.
The only difference is I acknowledge that I have broken the law and committed a criminal act. What I am inferring from you is that you think the backstory of the criminal act makes it not a criminal act.
It’s a criminal act. The motivations might have an influence on sentencing if a person happens to get caught, charged and brought to Court. The committed act broke the law. Some actions are black and white. It doesn’t mean that the outcomes are black and white.
but I would not let my morality, or the Court’s morality rule over my starving family
[quote]Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.[/quote]
Sunglasses are not a necessity. I went most of my life without sunglasses and I have sensitive eyes. Your eyes will get used to the light in a short period of time, unless you’re driving a team of dogs across a completely barren, snow-covered plain in bright sunlight. We also have eyelids that allow us to squint and still see during the brightest situations. Humans have gone without sunglasses more often than they have had them, historically speaking.
DB
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Shadow Hunter36 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I sure hope you are being sarcastic…
there is no right thing in stealing in the first place
Sarcasm? I’m a very sarcastic person but not in this instance.
I never said he was ‘right’ when he stole the first pair. But he did what was right and actually paid when he could afford to.
Yes, stealing is wrong. So is cannibalism. Yet people will eat humans if they have no choice. Right from wrong all comes down to circumstances.
The OP stole the glasses because he had no money. I’m assuming he drives for a living which is why he drives ‘all day’. Perhaps he, like me, has sensitive eyes. I honestly cannot drive without sunglasses.
Yes, it’s wrong to steal. But he could very well have caused an accident and hurt someone had he drove all day without the shades.
It’s not like he did a home-invasion robbery. Nor did he steal in order to fuel a drug habit. What he did is “justifiable” considering the situation.
Sunglasses are not a necessity. I went most of my life without sunglasses and I have sensitive eyes. Your eyes will get used to the light in a short period of time, unless you’re driving a team of dogs across a completely barren, snow-covered plain in bright sunlight. We also have eyelids that allow us to squint and still see during the brightest situations. Humans have gone without sunglasses more often than they have had them, historically speaking.
DB[/quote]
I bet that was it!!!
he is an Alaskan dog musher delivering medicine to the sick!
YES! enough said
[quote]AlteredState wrote:
Even say incest, whilst morally repugnant to me, may be understandable given an extreme set of circumstances.[/quote]
Well if you take the historical aspects of the Bible literally (which I do), that means you believe Adam and Eve’s children only had each other to reproduce with. And reproduce they did.
Then there was the whole Noah and the ark thing, and when they got out of the boat (with only Noah, his kids, and their wives) God directly said “be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth”. The only way to do that was hooking up with their cousins or siblings. Bit of a tangent, I admit. But it came to mind at your comment.
On a more relevant note, I highly doubt the OP has such sensitive vision he NEEDS shades to drive for a couple hours. If he did he would’ve (hopefully) had the common sense to, you know, have sunglasses with him when he knows he has to drive all day. Otherwise he’s an idiot, has none of this fabled “common sense”, or has amnesia.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
The better question is:
What if after you stole the sunglasses, I stole the sunglasses from you?
Did I technically steal or not, since the sunglasses were not yours to begin with?[/quote]
Nope. According to ancient Norse codes of law, he became an outlaw by stealing and is subject to what ever anybody does to him.