@hardartery I stated FT is a better indicator than TT.
Hmm…only worrying about free T? Wonder where I said this. Not sure why you’re spinning my statement toward TT/FT as a generalization for all TRT. Also, I didn’t say no one needs an AI. I said people on a TRT dose don’t need an AI. Steroid dudes probably do. TRT people have the option to reduce their dose and inject more frequently, thus eliminating the need for an AI. At the very least, most people don’t need an AI and should explore their options before going the instant gratification route - aka AI. The smartest people on this forum have all exhausted the varying non-AI protocols and were able to find their best protocol in this fashion, which abstains from an AI. Leading TRT experts like Dr. Rob Kominiarek recommend the same thing.
These are some examples of your generalizations. You just said that the guys using an AI are less intelligent the guys not using one. That is ignoring the personal experiences of a bunch of guys who have tried a lot of protocols. It’s just not true for some that reducing dose or adjusting shot frequency gets it for them, and blindly insisting that it will is closing yourself off to possibilities and understanding. Leading experts thought that the closer to zero the better for E2, not very many years ago. The learning still has a long way to go.
He quoted exactly where you said it. You may not have meant it that way but that is how it comes across. Not much spinning the statement, that TT doesn’t mean shit.
Have you seen the “So you’re saying meme” - pretty much how I feel when you take something I said and flip it without considering the context.
I said the smartest people right now have realized estrogen is important and that there are ways to embrace the natural production of it through trial and error. First try 2x injections, then work your way to ED if you have to. Go up and down on dosage for a set period of time until you’ve determined where you consistently feel best at.
I used to use an AI and didn’t know better since I read older material and had doctors who also were under the impression people need an AI the moment they feel symptoms. However, given the current evidence, there’s ways to get around that. The smartest now are at least attempting to get around that before considering the AI, which we know a lot less about, especially for men.
@rise80 Do you think one feels good from their TT or FT? From the context of my comment, I said one shouldn’t revolve their protocol so they have as much TT as possible, as the FT will be what benefits how they feel. However, I can see the confusion as there’s various metrics to take into account, not just FT.
But is it natural production? If E2 is being aromatized from testosterone and you’re injecting testosterone, then it could be argued it’s no longer a “natural” production. By taking testosterone we are influencing estrogen. That seems as natural as reducing estrogen with an ai.
I’ve done daily injections and lowered my dose to the point where I was no longer recovering in a timely manner from low intensity exercises and not receiving the other benefits that led me to start trt in the first place.
I could lower my dose more but I could also stop taking trt. That’s no nearly as appealing to me as being open to taking an AI with the understanding that estrogen is a very important hormone that must not be crashed. I think taking an ai with that mindset is not the lazy way or instant gratification. It’s a long hard process of trail an error.
My understanding of my specific TRT protocol, is I feel great. What’s the point of changing anything if I feel better, sleep well, lift well, have way more confidence, have a stable mood, am not losing hair, am not getting acne, and have no bloat? What’s the point of injecting more often? Because “70 year old men do it?” Because it’ll prove I’m not lazy?
It doesn’t really matter at the end of the day how much I know, except for the fact that my protocol for me, prescribed by my TRT doctor, has radically improved my life at 39 years old. That’s the metric I truly focus on most. I let the doctor focus on the metrics when he reads my blood results and listens to how I respond when I have my chats with him.
Lastly, the whole point of this entire topic was “Is this Forum mainly Anti-AI?” which is why I originally spoke up and said I take an AI (to show I am not anti-AI). Responses like yours to my protocol and behavior don’t promote active conversation around AIs when you attack people for not working through TRT like you did, or because “smart” people are doing it a certain way and I’m not.
The most important thing I’ve learned with over 20 years of paying attention to health, is everyone responds differently and it’s critical to focus on what works best for the individual, not the masses. Even though there are scientific papers that show (theoretical situation) 80% of people work best using one method, there still is another 20% who that doesn’t work. What matters is that we digest all information, and see what works best for us as individuals.
There are many reasons why some people think they need an AI. In virtually every case I’ve seen, they don’t. If you are having any issues with your protocol and not doing daily injections, move to that first. It’s a pain in the ass, granted, but it is the best way to troubleshoot a protocol. All this stuff about E2 issues is usually nonsense. Most of these things are caused by hormone fluctuations. If you can keep your hormone levels consistent, by doing daily injections (or the transscrotal cream) these issues usually rectify themselves after a few weeks and don’t come back. If you ARE on an AI, I do NOT suggest stopping it cold turkey. If you do, you will definitely have wild fluctuations as your body will try to balance itself out and you typically won’t feel too good. Wean yourself off SLOWLY, over many many weeks, and give your body the time it takes to adjust. If I could fill some kind of online repository with the hundreds of emails I have from guys who I’ve never met telling me how they finally feel they way they wished the would have felt all along now that they stopped the AI, you would understand why I feel like I have a mountain of evidence to demonstrate this. I wouldn’t be bringing this up if I didn’t believe it to be true as my sole purpose is to help guys out. I have nothing to gain by telling you this. The vast majority who have moved to daily, stopped the AI, and still not feeling great have what I believe to be insufficient free T levels. Once they get those up the issues usually resolve. I will stand by the fact that this will apply to probably 99 out of 100 men. There will always be that one guy, but typically his issue isn’t related to testosterone anyway. If you have healthy levels of testosterone, not blocking estrogen, and still don’t feel good, guess what? Testosterone isn’t your problem. If you think that you feel like crap on a protocol that is an 8/10, and that if you get your protocol to a 10/10 everything will improve, think again. Testosterone is not a magic bullet.
If you have issues with your protocol:
Ensure that you are doing daily administration
Do not block E2. If you are, wean yourself off slowly over several weeks (take your time here).
Get those free T levels up
If you do the above and don’t feel well, the problem isn’t your protocol. Address thyroid, gut health, deficiencies etc.
I also used to very strongly believe that I didn’t feel good unless I took it. The second I would stop taking it I’d feel worse. Within a week I’d get right back on. Once I realized what I was doing wrong, I stopped, let my body adjust which I knew it would, and most of my issues resolved. This is a very similar story that I’ve seen a few hundred times now. Most guys just don’t give it long enough for the bodies to adjust and the second they have issues they get right back on the AI.
The guy has been on TRT for a few months, he knows nothing. Im getting so tired of all these new guys coming in claiming authory, knowing more than docs. Redicilous.
All it takes is a couple of days or even hours and you can become more knowledgeable in certain areas than the average doctor, like protocols for example.
All this coming from a man who admittedly has not been able to have sex in years due to severe ED. Yup, by all means take this guy’s advice. He will get you just as optimized as him. Just say bye bye to your wives and girlfriends first lol
I don’t think anyone can argue with someone that feels good on an AI. Quality of life should be up there with quantity. I think the issue is starting with an AI on day 1. You get it in your head that you NEED it. That’s how it was for me. Having had gyno previously I was under the impression that I would have gyno without it. It took some mental conditioning to get past that.
You also have the situation where one doesn’t feel ideal the first few months of TRT and looks for a quick fix. They take the AI and eventually get through those rough times and start feeling ok. In their head it’s the AI that fixed them but was it really the fact that in time their body adjusted to the outside source of testosterone and they may actually feel even better without it? I’ve come to realize how much our minds play a role in all of this. Once we believe something to be true we make that truth our reality and it becomes hard to switch religions.
All that said, I think best way to go about TRT starting out is to not use an AI. Give yourself 3 months. At the 3 month mark if you have consecutive weeks of issues and want to try an AI then go for it. Many forget that TRT doesn’t change life happening around us and there will be times when even the best TRT protocol won’t save you from feeling less than optimal.