Is Europe Abandoning Free Speech?

From today’s WSJ Op-ed section:

[i]Islam and Free Speech
By PETER HOEKSTRA
March 26, 2008; Page A15

The Netherlands is bracing for a new round of violence at home and against its embassies in the Middle East. The storm would be caused by “Fitna,” a short film that is scheduled to be released this week. The film, which reportedly includes images of a Quran being burned, was produced by Geert Wilders, a member of the Dutch parliament and leader of the Freedom Party. Mr. Wilders has called for banning the Quran – which he has compared to Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” – from the Netherlands.

After concern about the film led Mr. Wilders’s Internet service provider to take down his Web site, Mr. Wilders issued a statement this week that he will personally distribute DVDs “On the Dam” if he has to. That may not be necessary, as the Czech National Party has reportedly agreed to host the video on its Web site.

Reasonable men in free societies regard Geert Wilders’s anti-Muslim rhetoric, and films like “Fitna,” as disrespectful of the religious sensitivities of members of the Islamic faith. But free societies also hold freedom of speech to be a fundamental human right. We don’t silence, jail or kill people with whom we disagree just because their ideas are offensive or disturbing. We believe that when such ideas are openly debated, they sink of their own weight and attract few followers.

Our country allows fringe groups like the American Nazi Party to demonstrate, as long as they are peaceful. Americans are permitted to burn the national flag. In 1989, when so-called artist Andres Serrano displayed his work “Piss Christ” – a photo of a crucifix immersed in a bottle of urine – Americans protested peacefully and moved to cut off the federal funding that supported Mr. Serrano. There were no bombings of museums. No one was killed over this work that was deeply offensive to Christians.

Criticism of Islam, however, has led to violence and murder world-wide. Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for Muslims to kill Salman Rushdie over his 1988 book, “The Satanic Verses.” Although Mr. Rushdie has survived, two people associated with the book were stabbed, one fatally. The 2005 Danish editorial cartoons lampooning the prophet Muhammad led to numerous deaths. Dutch director Theodoor van Gogh was killed in 2004, several months after he made the film “Submission,” which described violence against women in Islamic societies. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former Dutch member of parliament who wrote the script for “Submission,” received death threats over the film and fled the country for the United States.

The violence Dutch officials are anticipating now is part of a broad and determined effort by the radical jihadist movement to reject the basic values of modern civilization and replace them with an extreme form of Shariah. Shariah, the legal code of Islam, governed the Muslim world in medieval times and is used to varying degrees in many nations today, especially in Saudi Arabia.

Radical jihadists are prepared to use violence against individuals to stop them from exercising their free speech rights. In some countries, converting a Muslim to another faith is a crime punishable by death. While Muslim clerics are free to preach and proselytize in the West, some Muslim nations severely restrict or forbid other faiths to do so. In addition, moderate Muslims around the world have been deemed apostates and enemies by radical jihadists.

Radical jihadists believe representative government is un-Islamic, and urge Muslims who live in democracies not to exercise their right to vote. The reason is not hard to understand: When given a choice, most Muslims reject the extreme approach to Islam. This was recently demonstrated in Iraq’s Anbar Province, which went from an al-Qaeda stronghold to an area supporting the U.S.-led coalition. This happened because the populace came to intensely dislike the fanatical ways of the radicals, which included cutting off fingers of anyone caught smoking a cigarette, 4 p.m. curfews, beatings and beheadings. There also were forced marriages between foreign-born al Qaeda fighters and local Sunni women.

There may be a direct relationship between the radical jihadists’ opposition to democracy and their systematic abuse of women. Women have virtually no rights in this radical world: They must conceal themselves, cannot hold jobs, and have been subjected to honor killings. Would most women in Muslim countries vote for a candidate for public office who supported such oppressive rules?

Not all of these radicals are using violence to supplant democratic society with an extreme form of Shariah. Some in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark are attempting to create parallel Islamic societies with separate courts for Muslims. According to recent press reports, British officials are investigating the cases of 30 British Muslim school-age girls who “disappeared” for probable forced marriages.

While efforts to create parallel Islamic societies have been mostly peaceful, they may actually be a jihadist “waiting game,” based on the assumption that the Islamic populations of many European states will become the majority over the next 25-50 years due to higher Muslim birth rates and immigration.

What is particularly disturbing about these assaults against modern society is how the West has reacted with appeasement, willful ignorance, and a lack of journalistic criticism. Last year PBS tried to suppress “Islam vs. Islamists: Voices from the Muslim Center,” a hard-hitting documentary that contained criticism of radical jihadists. Fortunately, Fox News agreed to air the film.

Even if the new Wilders film proves newsworthy, it is likely that few members of the Western media will air it, perhaps because they have been intimidated by radical jihadist threats. The only major U.S. newspaper to reprint any of the controversial 2005 Danish cartoons was Denver’s Rocky Mountain News. You can be sure that if these cartoons had mocked Christianity or Judaism, major American newspapers would not have hesitated to print them.

European officials have been similarly cautious. A German court ruled last year that a German Muslim man had the right to beat his wife, as this was permitted under Shariah. Britain’s Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, stated last month that the implementation of some measure of Shariah in Britain was “unavoidable” and British Muslims should have the choice to use Shariah in marital and financial matters.

I do not defend the right of Geert Wilders to air his film because I agree with it. I expect I will not. (I have not yet seen the film). I defend the right of Mr. Wilders and the media to air this film because free speech is a fundamental right that is the foundation of modern society. Western governments and media outlets cannot allow themselves to be bullied into giving up this precious right due to threats of violence. We must not fool ourselves into believing that we can appease the radical jihadist movement by allowing them to set up parallel societies and separate legal systems, or by granting them special protection from criticism.

A central premise of the American experiment are these words from the Declaration of Independence: “All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” There are similar statements in the U.S. Constitution, British Common Law, the Napoleonic Code and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. As a result, hundreds of millions in the U.S. and around the world enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and many other rights.

These liberties have been won through centuries of debate, conflict and bloodshed. Radical jihadists want to sacrifice all we have learned by returning to a primitive and intolerant world. While modern society invites such radicals to peacefully exercise their faith, we cannot and will not sacrifice our fundamental freedoms.


Mr. Hoekstra, who was born in the Netherlands, is ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.[/i]

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
From today’s WSJ Op-ed section: [/quote]

Just to make sure everybody knows, Mr. Hoekstra is the same guy who called the Islamic Society of North America a group of “radical jihadists”. He also oversaw the - by now discredited - Congressional WMD commitee that presented the fictitious weapons-grade Iranian uranium produced at Natanz.

The good news is that the movie will be released tomorrow so we can see for ourselves what the hype is about.

Good thread on the server issue related to their decision to cease hosting the movie:

http://volokh.com/posts/1206569144.shtml

Particularly, this comment struck me as good:

[i]Common Sense is entirely incorrect. There are numerous domain registrars at this point in history - hundreds. Network Solutions no longer holds the monopoly they once did. They are applying their AUP in their position as a web hosting provider, rather than a registrar in any case. In other words, they want to be selective about what materials they host on their own servers.

Hosting providers are free to host whichever web sites they wish and turn away those the don’t, except as limited by law (i.e. anti-discrimination). You have no right to be published and they are not a public utility. Don’t like it? Buy your own server and a high capacity Internet circuit, perhaps rent some colocation space, and be your own web hoster.

That all being said, I’m an advocate of free speech, as well as an industry analyst who covers the domain name and hosting industry. I’ve found that Server Central tends to be far more relaxed about what they host, as compared to NetSol, Rackspace, or GoDaddy. There are literally thousands of hosting providers, however, competition is stiff and prices are cheap. Its inconceivable that you won’t be able to find someone to host any give (legal) content.
3.26.2008 6:49pm[/i]

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Good thread on the server issue related to their decision to cease hosting the movie:

http://volokh.com/posts/1206569144.shtml

Particularly, this comment struck me as good:

[i]Common Sense is entirely incorrect. There are numerous domain registrars at this point in history - hundreds. Network Solutions no longer holds the monopoly they once did. They are applying their AUP in their position as a web hosting provider, rather than a registrar in any case. In other words, they want to be selective about what materials they host on their own servers.

Hosting providers are free to host whichever web sites they wish and turn away those the don’t, except as limited by law (i.e. anti-discrimination). You have no right to be published and they are not a public utility. Don’t like it? Buy your own server and a high capacity Internet circuit, perhaps rent some colocation space, and be your own web hoster.

That all being said, I’m an advocate of free speech, as well as an industry analyst who covers the domain name and hosting industry. I’ve found that Server Central tends to be far more relaxed about what they host, as compared to NetSol, Rackspace, or GoDaddy. There are literally thousands of hosting providers, however, competition is stiff and prices are cheap. Its inconceivable that you won’t be able to find someone to host any give (legal) content.
3.26.2008 6:49pm[/i][/quote]

Exactly. The issue has been severely misrepresented in every publication I’ve read these past few days. They all confused domain registration with hosting.

The far-right National Czech political party has offered to host the page on their servers.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
From today’s WSJ Op-ed section:

[i]Islam and Free Speech
By PETER HOEKSTRA
March 26, 2008; Page A15

The Netherlands is bracing for a new round of violence at home and against its embassies in the Middle East. The storm would be caused by “Fitna,” a short film that is scheduled to be released this week. The film, which reportedly includes images of a Quran being burned, was produced by Geert Wilders, a member of the Dutch parliament and leader of the Freedom Party. Mr. Wilders has called for banning the Quran – which he has compared to Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” – from the Netherlands.

After concern about the film led Mr. Wilders’s Internet service provider to take down his Web site, Mr. Wilders issued a statement this week that he will personally distribute DVDs “On the Dam” if he has to. That may not be necessary, as the Czech National Party has reportedly agreed to host the video on its Web site.

Reasonable men in free societies regard Geert Wilders’s anti-Muslim rhetoric, and films like “Fitna,” as disrespectful of the religious sensitivities of members of the Islamic faith. But free societies also hold freedom of speech to be a fundamental human right. We don’t silence, jail or kill people with whom we disagree just because their ideas are offensive or disturbing. We believe that when such ideas are openly debated, they sink of their own weight and attract few followers.

Our country allows fringe groups like the American Nazi Party to demonstrate, as long as they are peaceful. Americans are permitted to burn the national flag. In 1989, when so-called artist Andres Serrano displayed his work “Piss Christ” – a photo of a crucifix immersed in a bottle of urine – Americans protested peacefully and moved to cut off the federal funding that supported Mr. Serrano. There were no bombings of museums. No one was killed over this work that was deeply offensive to Christians.

Criticism of Islam, however, has led to violence and murder world-wide. Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for Muslims to kill Salman Rushdie over his 1988 book, “The Satanic Verses.” Although Mr. Rushdie has survived, two people associated with the book were stabbed, one fatally. The 2005 Danish editorial cartoons lampooning the prophet Muhammad led to numerous deaths. Dutch director Theodoor van Gogh was killed in 2004, several months after he made the film “Submission,” which described violence against women in Islamic societies. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former Dutch member of parliament who wrote the script for “Submission,” received death threats over the film and fled the country for the United States.

The violence Dutch officials are anticipating now is part of a broad and determined effort by the radical jihadist movement to reject the basic values of modern civilization and replace them with an extreme form of Shariah. Shariah, the legal code of Islam, governed the Muslim world in medieval times and is used to varying degrees in many nations today, especially in Saudi Arabia.

Radical jihadists are prepared to use violence against individuals to stop them from exercising their free speech rights. In some countries, converting a Muslim to another faith is a crime punishable by death. While Muslim clerics are free to preach and proselytize in the West, some Muslim nations severely restrict or forbid other faiths to do so. In addition, moderate Muslims around the world have been deemed apostates and enemies by radical jihadists.

Radical jihadists believe representative government is un-Islamic, and urge Muslims who live in democracies not to exercise their right to vote. The reason is not hard to understand: When given a choice, most Muslims reject the extreme approach to Islam. This was recently demonstrated in Iraq’s Anbar Province, which went from an al-Qaeda stronghold to an area supporting the U.S.-led coalition. This happened because the populace came to intensely dislike the fanatical ways of the radicals, which included cutting off fingers of anyone caught smoking a cigarette, 4 p.m. curfews, beatings and beheadings. There also were forced marriages between foreign-born al Qaeda fighters and local Sunni women.

There may be a direct relationship between the radical jihadists’ opposition to democracy and their systematic abuse of women. Women have virtually no rights in this radical world: They must conceal themselves, cannot hold jobs, and have been subjected to honor killings. Would most women in Muslim countries vote for a candidate for public office who supported such oppressive rules?

Not all of these radicals are using violence to supplant democratic society with an extreme form of Shariah. Some in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark are attempting to create parallel Islamic societies with separate courts for Muslims. According to recent press reports, British officials are investigating the cases of 30 British Muslim school-age girls who “disappeared” for probable forced marriages.

While efforts to create parallel Islamic societies have been mostly peaceful, they may actually be a jihadist “waiting game,” based on the assumption that the Islamic populations of many European states will become the majority over the next 25-50 years due to higher Muslim birth rates and immigration.

What is particularly disturbing about these assaults against modern society is how the West has reacted with appeasement, willful ignorance, and a lack of journalistic criticism. Last year PBS tried to suppress “Islam vs. Islamists: Voices from the Muslim Center,” a hard-hitting documentary that contained criticism of radical jihadists. Fortunately, Fox News agreed to air the film.

Even if the new Wilders film proves newsworthy, it is likely that few members of the Western media will air it, perhaps because they have been intimidated by radical jihadist threats. The only major U.S. newspaper to reprint any of the controversial 2005 Danish cartoons was Denver’s Rocky Mountain News. You can be sure that if these cartoons had mocked Christianity or Judaism, major American newspapers would not have hesitated to print them.

European officials have been similarly cautious. A German court ruled last year that a German Muslim man had the right to beat his wife, as this was permitted under Shariah. Britain’s Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, stated last month that the implementation of some measure of Shariah in Britain was “unavoidable” and British Muslims should have the choice to use Shariah in marital and financial matters.

I do not defend the right of Geert Wilders to air his film because I agree with it. I expect I will not. (I have not yet seen the film). I defend the right of Mr. Wilders and the media to air this film because free speech is a fundamental right that is the foundation of modern society. Western governments and media outlets cannot allow themselves to be bullied into giving up this precious right due to threats of violence. We must not fool ourselves into believing that we can appease the radical jihadist movement by allowing them to set up parallel societies and separate legal systems, or by granting them special protection from criticism.

A central premise of the American experiment are these words from the Declaration of Independence: “All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” There are similar statements in the U.S. Constitution, British Common Law, the Napoleonic Code and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. As a result, hundreds of millions in the U.S. and around the world enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and many other rights.

These liberties have been won through centuries of debate, conflict and bloodshed. Radical jihadists want to sacrifice all we have learned by returning to a primitive and intolerant world. While modern society invites such radicals to peacefully exercise their faith, we cannot and will not sacrifice our fundamental freedoms.


Mr. Hoekstra, who was born in the Netherlands, is ranking Republican on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.[/i][/quote]

We need to offend them and offend them often until they get used to it. They can’t kill everybody.

[quote]lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
From today’s WSJ Op-ed section:

Just to make sure everybody knows, Mr. Hoekstra is the same guy who called the Islamic Society of North America a group of “radical jihadists”. He also oversaw the - by now discredited - Congressional WMD commitee that presented the fictitious weapons-grade Iranian uranium produced at Natanz.

The good news is that the movie will be released tomorrow so we can see for ourselves what the hype is about.[/quote]

What do you suppose the over / under will be on the body count due to feigned outrage - committed by those that “misunderstand” their religion?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Censorship implies a censor, be it a corporation, a school, a newspaper, a church, etc. The term is in no way limited to government.[/quote]

So what are the implications to private property?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
Censorship implies a censor, be it a corporation, a school, a newspaper, a church, etc. The term is in no way limited to government.

So what are the implications to private property?[/quote]

I don’t understand your question.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Multiculturalism is a joke.
[/quote]
In the context of nationality, community…or just in general?

Frankly, I like multiculturalism, if I am understanding it correctly. I like being able to frequent a sushi bar, a taco stand, and a pho (pronounced, fuh) joint all on the same block.

Ironically, with exception for Mexican food the only reason many of these places exist is because of American Imperialism.

[quote]lixy wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
Censorship implies a censor, be it a corporation, a school, a newspaper, a church, etc. The term is in no way limited to government.

So what are the implications to private property?

I don’t understand your question.[/quote]

Are you saying that private property owners cannot do with their property what they wish? Is discrimination by a corporation not considered free-speech? Is commercial speech not protected speech?

[quote]Tokoya wrote:
lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
From today’s WSJ Op-ed section:

Just to make sure everybody knows, Mr. Hoekstra is the same guy who called the Islamic Society of North America a group of “radical jihadists”. He also oversaw the - by now discredited - Congressional WMD commitee that presented the fictitious weapons-grade Iranian uranium produced at Natanz.

The good news is that the movie will be released tomorrow so we can see for ourselves what the hype is about.

What do you suppose the over / under will be on the body count due to feigned outrage - committed by those that “misunderstand” their religion?[/quote]

I am going to be conservative and say 150 +/- 10.

Yall wanna make bet, who ever is closest wins? We can throw together a pool say 10$ a piece.

[quote]lixy wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
Censorship implies a censor, be it a corporation, a school, a newspaper, a church, etc. The term is in no way limited to government.

So what are the implications to private property?

I don’t understand your question.[/quote]

Why is it not protected under free speech laws if a company says “no” to you?

[quote]pat wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
From today’s WSJ Op-ed section:

Just to make sure everybody knows, Mr. Hoekstra is the same guy who called the Islamic Society of North America a group of “radical jihadists”. He also oversaw the - by now discredited - Congressional WMD commitee that presented the fictitious weapons-grade Iranian uranium produced at Natanz.

The good news is that the movie will be released tomorrow so we can see for ourselves what the hype is about.

What do you suppose the over / under will be on the body count due to feigned outrage - committed by those that “misunderstand” their religion?

I am going to be conservative and say 150 +/- 10.

Yall wanna make bet, who ever is closest wins? We can throw together a pool say 10$ a piece.[/quote]

I think that the cartoons resulted in about 100 worldwide. This is an interesting link.

http://www.lastingnews.com/maps/cartoons_protests.html

Alright, the movie is online. Let’s melt those servers!

Watched it. I don’t know if the muslims on the video are the exception or the norm, but what they preach is sick and needs to be strongly opposed ASAP.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:

The U.S. certainly has. I’m currently appealing a finding of guilty for the charge of Disorderly Conduct 5503.3, for saying “fuck you” to a cop.

Assuming you are serious:

  1. Penalties for speaking to a cop that way are not a new phenomenon and are certainly not evidence of the US “going that way”.

  2. Are you appealing on First Amendment grounds?

He should be.

I am.

What happened was I tried to enter a roadway that was blocked in one lane. The officer stopped me and started berating me, calling me an idiot, and asking if there was something wrong with my eyes. I explained that the raod was not blocked, only one lane was blocked. He told me to used my godamned head and mve it along. I put it in reverse to exit the road that I was turning on to, and while doing so said “fuck you”. He then flagged down another officer to stop me. The other officer questioned me and took down my info, then I left. Recieved a citation in the mail a week later.

At the hearing I argued that there was no intent to cause a breach of the peace, and presented Commonwealth of PA vs. Hock, where it was found by the PA supreme court that simply saying “fuck you” is not a crime. The officer testified that I hollered in a very loud voice that he heard from 20 yds. away. Physicaly impossible for me- I have extensive damage to my vocal chords and can’t speak above a loud conversational volume.

The magistrate decided that I must have done something to irritate the officer, and therefore was guilty of disorderly conduct. He added that I should not have nor should I ever question the authority of an officer in the line of duty. He also seemed very angry that I used the A.C.L.U.s site to gather the info.

The law is interesting isn’t it?

You essentially harmed no one. The Cop has heard the those words and most probably have said them on occasion right? But…you see there is an unspoken unwritten law regarding how a Cop will react under this type of a situation. And telling one to fuck off is not the brightest move. You were at the mercy of the Police when you did that. When the other Cop pulled you over horrible things could have happened to you…know what I mean? It’s not a question of right or wrong, it becomes a question of who has the power and who is essentially powerless.

Yea…saying fuck you to a Cop was a very, very stupid thing to do. Paying your fine and walking away might be the safest and most economic thing to do. If you do beat it there also might be a line of Cops who would just love to take a crack at you in some way…a little blue retribution.

Of course, if being right is that important to you then go for it.

[/quote]

Another angle of defense is that as a police officer, you are expected to be very resilient to fighting words and other forms of provocation unless it involves the officers safety in some way. It’s not that the cops have complete power, its that your responsibility as a United States citizen is to know the law, and show that you are the one that allows them to have that power and they should use their discretion when exercising that power. In my opinion the officer was letting it go to his head and should be reprimanded for HIS offense.

I don’t have anything of value to add here, but I just wanted to mention how hilarious I found the quote that the OP mentioned:

“‘Freedom of expression doesn’t mean the right to offend,’ said Maxime Verhagen”.

How on earth can anyone be so clueless. That is exactly what freedom of expression means.

[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
I don’t have anything of value to add here, but I just wanted to mention how hilarious I found the quote that the OP mentioned:

“‘Freedom of expression doesn’t mean the right to offend,’ said Maxime Verhagen”.

How on earth can anyone be so clueless. That is exactly what freedom of expression means.

[/quote]

No you asshole, it means you have the right to say nice things to people.

[quote]Scrotus wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
I don’t have anything of value to add here, but I just wanted to mention how hilarious I found the quote that the OP mentioned:

“‘Freedom of expression doesn’t mean the right to offend,’ said Maxime Verhagen”.

How on earth can anyone be so clueless. That is exactly what freedom of expression means.

No you asshole, it means you have the right to say nice things to people. [/quote]

I find the word asshole offensive.

Clearly the mods here don’t understand that freedom of expression doesn’t mean the right to offend. If they understood this basic concept then they would have already censored you just in case someone finds your comment offensive.