Is Boxing a Gentlemens Sport?

Training
21

[quote]Robert A wrote:

Floyd Mayweather Jr. springs immediately to mind on this. I cannot remember ever seeing him strike a legit foul in the ring. Can you? Even when he does things people bitch about, the shot on Gatti or more recently the KO of Ortiz that prompted the shit show in GAL, he is by the book. It is OUTSIDE the ring where he seems to show a lack of character.

In it he plays by the rules and always comes in in shape, at weight, etc.
[/quote]

That’s exactly it.

Some people say that he uses his elbow, which he does, but it’s on the fine line of legal or not because he uses it to push off, not to hit.

But yes, Mayweather does NOTHING wrong in the ring. When Zab Judah low blowed him, he did nothing besides come back and win the fight. When Ortiz headbutted him, he did not respond in kind.

He only came in once overweight, and that was when he came in at 146 against Marquez instead of the contractually agreed upon catchweight of 144, but I think he could not physically come in that low anymore, and he paid Marquez $300k per lb. for that.

If anything, he has been exemplary in the ring.

Ali was another guy like this. Outside the ring controversy followed him, but inside, good luck finding him cheap shotting, low blowing, head butting, or anything like that to his opponent.

I really think that true champs think that they don’t HAVE to win like that, so why cheapen the victory? Beat him straight out like you know you can.

22

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

I acknowledged that out of the ring most the controversy happens.

In regards to in the ring, surely I don’t have to point out all of the bending of the rules?

[/quote]

But that happens in EVERY sport, not just boxing. Hell, anything and everything that could be considered a competition has this - from politics to the stock market to competitive swimming.

Every thing has the set rules, and then what’s allowable just past those rules. Generally, most boxer work well within those set rules, and those that don’t still do things that are “acceptable” even though they’re not written out.

It’s the rare fighter, the Bernard Hopkins or the like, that truly breaks the rules to the point where one could consider it a real problem.[/quote]

Weâ??re of the same opinion so this is a non-debate.

I said they werenâ??t gentlemanly acts in the ring, you seem to have interpreted this as me saying they are breaking the rules.

Iâ??ve already conceded I should have said the main issues occur out of the ring. Usually building up to a fight - With smart boxers/promoters this is partly an act to hype up fights and get as many potential viewers and people interested.

23

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Robert,

I always enjoy the clarity you bring to discussions.[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words.

Regards,

Robert A

24

how do i unsubscribe from a topic?

25

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

Floyd Mayweather Jr. springs immediately to mind on this. I cannot remember ever seeing him strike a legit foul in the ring. Can you? Even when he does things people bitch about, the shot on Gatti or more recently the KO of Ortiz that prompted the shit show in GAL, he is by the book. It is OUTSIDE the ring where he seems to show a lack of character.

In it he plays by the rules and always comes in in shape, at weight, etc.
[/quote]

That’s exactly it.

Some people say that he uses his elbow, which he does, but it’s on the fine line of legal or not because he uses it to push off, not to hit.

But yes, Mayweather does NOTHING wrong in the ring. When Zab Judah low blowed him, he did nothing besides come back and win the fight. When Ortiz headbutted him, he did not respond in kind.

He only came in once overweight, and that was when he came in at 146 against Marquez instead of the contractually agreed upon catchweight of 144, but I think he could not physically come in that low anymore, and he paid Marquez $300k per lb. for that.

If anything, he has been exemplary in the ring.

Ali was another guy like this. Outside the ring controversy followed him, but inside, good luck finding him cheap shotting, low blowing, head butting, or anything like that to his opponent.

I really think that true champs think that they don’t HAVE to win like that, so why cheapen the victory? Beat him straight out like you know you can.[/quote]

I forgot about Mayweather coming in heavy against Marquez. I guess saw it as being such a non-issue to the outcome at the time that I don’t even recall it.

On the other end of Holyfield and Hopkins in the foul/dirty fighting skillset:

Anyone remember Andrew Golota?

Regards,

Robert A

26

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

I acknowledged that out of the ring most the controversy happens.

In regards to in the ring, surely I don’t have to point out all of the bending of the rules?

[/quote]

But that happens in EVERY sport, not just boxing. Hell, anything and everything that could be considered a competition has this - from politics to the stock market to competitive swimming.

Every thing has the set rules, and then what’s allowable just past those rules. Generally, most boxer work well within those set rules, and those that don’t still do things that are “acceptable” even though they’re not written out.

It’s the rare fighter, the Bernard Hopkins or the like, that truly breaks the rules to the point where one could consider it a real problem.[/quote]

Weâ??re of the same opinion so this is a non-debate.

I said they werenâ??t gentlemanly acts in the ring, you seem to have interpreted this as me saying they are breaking the rules.

Iâ??ve already conceded I should have said the main issues occur out of the ring. Usually building up to a fight - With smart boxers/promoters this is partly an act to hype up fights and get as many potential viewers and people interested.

[/quote]

Heymaker,

Now I am getting a bit confused. Other than breaching the rules that were known, understood, and agreed upon prior by both parties, what in ring activity constitutes “ungentlemanly” conduct?

Oh, and if your screen name is a David Hay reference this is a wonderfully ironic topic.

Regards,

Robert A

27

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

I acknowledged that out of the ring most the controversy happens.

In regards to in the ring, surely I don’t have to point out all of the bending of the rules?

[/quote]

But that happens in EVERY sport, not just boxing. Hell, anything and everything that could be considered a competition has this - from politics to the stock market to competitive swimming.

Every thing has the set rules, and then what’s allowable just past those rules. Generally, most boxer work well within those set rules, and those that don’t still do things that are “acceptable” even though they’re not written out.

It’s the rare fighter, the Bernard Hopkins or the like, that truly breaks the rules to the point where one could consider it a real problem.[/quote]

We�¢??re of the same opinion so this is a non-debate.

I said they weren�¢??t gentlemanly acts in the ring, you seem to have interpreted this as me saying they are breaking the rules.

I�¢??ve already conceded I should have said the main issues occur out of the ring. Usually building up to a fight - With smart boxers/promoters this is partly an act to hype up fights and get as many potential viewers and people interested.

[/quote]

Heymaker,

Now I am getting a bit confused. Other than breaching the rules that were known, understood, and agreed upon prior by both parties, what in ring activity constitutes “ungentlemanly” conduct?

Oh, and if your screen name is a David Hay reference this is a wonderfully ironic topic.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

You use ungentlemenly in quotation marks. Who are you qouting?

Where is the irony in my screen name? Please do expand.

  1. I’m not David Haye
  2. I haven’t claimed to be
  3. Ive never said Haye is a gentlemen
  4. I never said I was a gentlemen, I asked if boxing was.

Are you simply trying to hate on David Haye? I’m not going to get into a Haye debate. Any fool knows he’s not a popular guy, so I won’t and don’t need to defend him.

28

Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion.

29

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

It’s absolutely disgraceful. I have no interest in defending Chisora, but for Maywhethers misconduct to be overlooked so easily is mind blowing.

I’m still not certain why Maywhethers sentance was pushed back?

Having said that, America takes a notoriously embarrassing stance on the punishment of celebrities and sports starse.

30

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

Not sure but probably because Mayweather didn’t have any altercation with another boxer. Chisora spat at Vladimir’s face and then slapped Vitali. The fight with that cunt of Hayes sealed his fate.

31

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

I acknowledged that out of the ring most the controversy happens.

In regards to in the ring, surely I don’t have to point out all of the bending of the rules?

[/quote]

But that happens in EVERY sport, not just boxing. Hell, anything and everything that could be considered a competition has this - from politics to the stock market to competitive swimming.

Every thing has the set rules, and then what’s allowable just past those rules. Generally, most boxer work well within those set rules, and those that don’t still do things that are “acceptable” even though they’re not written out.

It’s the rare fighter, the Bernard Hopkins or the like, that truly breaks the rules to the point where one could consider it a real problem.[/quote]

We�??�?�¢??re of the same opinion so this is a non-debate.

I said they weren�??�?�¢??t gentlemanly acts in the ring, you seem to have interpreted this as me saying they are breaking the rules.

I�??�?�¢??ve already conceded I should have said the main issues occur out of the ring. Usually building up to a fight - With smart boxers/promoters this is partly an act to hype up fights and get as many potential viewers and people interested.

[/quote]

Heymaker,

Now I am getting a bit confused. Other than breaching the rules that were known, understood, and agreed upon prior by both parties, what in ring activity constitutes “ungentlemanly” conduct?

Oh, and if your screen name is a David Hay reference this is a wonderfully ironic topic.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

You use ungentlemenly in quotation marks. Who are you qouting?
[/quote]
I was doing it to cast doubt/call attention to the word. I clearly failed.

David Haye uses “Hayemaker” (I get the spelling is different) and is an example of a modern, not a gentleman, boxer. He is also a Brit. I have never seen heymaker written until your screen name. It has always been haymaker referring to either a strong, but over committed, punch or in the sense of “make hay while the sun shines”. The David Haye thing was intended to be a lighthearted, but earnest, question. Guess I fucked that one up as well.

[quote]

Are you simply trying to hate on David Haye? I’m not going to get into a Haye debate. Any fool knows he’s not a popular guy, so I won’t and don’t need to defend him. [/quote]

I guess that’s confirmed. I didn’t screw the pooch, I out and out fucked the dog on that one.

I also wrote

I would like to edit that to “am confused”.

1.) For the purposes of this thread is a gentleman to be defined as one who behaves a certain way, one who is a member of a social class, both, or neither?

2.) I am reading a fair bit of either defensiveness or animosity in your posts. I am not tracking why it should be there, and I think this may have also led FightinIrish to ask about English as a 1st language. For the record we have at least a few regulars on this board who contribute a great deal without English being there first, or maybe even second language. We have many more posters who are fluent in multiple languages. I would not have taken that question as a shot.

The answer to the first question would allow me to at least know if I agree or disagree with your statements about boxing never having been a gentleman’s sport.

The answer to the latter will help me frame any future posts in this, or other, threads.

Really, boxing threads tend to be some of the nicer ones here. Until someone with no frame of reference earlier than post prison Tyson starts making top 10 lists, or Amir Kahn does anything, or a Klitschko fights and HeavyThrower shows up to torque Irish and take his ribbing, or…

Regards,

Robert A

32

@Heymaker: I don’t know who David Haye is, but I know that Robert A was not trying to be offensive with that reference. He’s not like that.

I also know that (alert: hijack!) I just came back from a private lesson with boxing champion Ann Wolfe! I’m very excited & will do it agin. She told me I need to calm down. :slight_smile:

/hijack

EDIT: Robert A beat my response time, damn!

33

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

It’s absolutely disgraceful. I have no interest in defending Chisora, but for Maywhethers misconduct to be overlooked so easily is mind blowing.

I’m still not certain why Maywhethers sentance was pushed back?

Having said that, America takes a notoriously embarrassing stance on the punishment of celebrities and sports starse. [/quote]

Uhhh…compared to whom exactly?

The French system of “justice” depends on magistrates for high profile cases, and many in that country were horrified with the way that Strauss Kahn was led out in handcuffs and treated like a common criminal.

I suggest you watch yourself when talking about a legal system you don’t know or understand, especially coming from the country you do. Money buys freedom - or smaller sentences - in EVERY country. But America is still the nation where a celebrity’s fate in a serious crime is handled by a jury of regular people. And we did come up with that rule.

Secondly, if the state commissions banned every boxer who got in trouble, there’d be no boxing. So get over it.

We’re either getting trolled, or you’re a dolt. Maybe a bit of both.

34

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

Many, many, many boxers have legal trouble. It does not pertain to their given sport, or how they perform in that given sport. And as I said in the above post, if they banned every fighter who had legal trouble, you’d never see a fight again. Boxers aren’t like other athletes.

And honestly, even though Chisora’s a punk and a bitch, for the Miss Nancies in the british boxing commission to strip his license for it is ridiculous.

Classy? Nope. A crime? Absolutely not. As the saying goes, fighters fight, even when you don’t want them to sometimes.

But, Britain is notorious for being bitches like that. They’ve got so much sand in their vaginas it could fill the fairytale castle in London… I mean, they banned fucking guns. Seriously…

35

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

“I’ve never slapped a woman, but I’ve shaken them”

That shit is personal. If you weren’t there, don’t have a video, and can’t put it all in context, it’s hard to make a judgement call on the guy.

Chisora being a cunt isn’t hard to fault. It was in public, on video and with a decent amount of context.

36

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

It’s absolutely disgraceful. I have no interest in defending Chisora, but for Maywhethers misconduct to be overlooked so easily is mind blowing.

I’m still not certain why Maywhethers sentance was pushed back?

Having said that, America takes a notoriously embarrassing stance on the punishment of celebrities and sports starse. [/quote]

Uhhh…compared to whom exactly?

The French system of “justice” depends on magistrates for high profile cases, and many in that country were horrified with the way that Strauss Kahn was led out in handcuffs and treated like a common criminal.

I suggest you watch yourself when talking about a legal system you don’t know or understand, especially coming from the country you do. Money buys freedom - or smaller sentences - in EVERY country. But America is still the nation where a celebrity’s fate in a serious crime is handled by a jury of regular people. And we did come up with that rule.

Secondly, if the state commissions banned every boxer who got in trouble, there’d be no boxing. So get over it.

We’re either getting trolled, or you’re a dolt. Maybe a bit of both.
[/quote]

Just to be an arsehole, the modern form of jury trial can be traced back to 1160, or there abouts, in post Norman Conquest Britain.

I agree with some of what you say about fighters and their character, and it definitely throws a good dose of ugly reality at the points I made. I don’t personally feel that enjoying fighting means you can’t be a gentleman. I never have anything personal against guys I fight with, and even though I’m trying to stop them from the opening bell, I would never wish any harm on them beyond the few minutes we’re boxing.

Much of the appeal to boxing for me is that I can go and hit guys who can take being hit, don’t take it personally, and are determined to give back as good as they get. It takes strength of character to be a fighter, and maybe a small dose of being a sociopath. I do think that strength of character is a quality inherent in being a gentleman. I definitely don’t think being a gentleman means you have to be a little bitch. I don’t believe any of the qualities I associate with being a gentleman as incompatible with the character of being a fighter. But then maybe the problem is that we all have a different idea of what it is to be a fighter.

@Miss Parker - What a great opportunity!

@Heymaker - Where does all the rage come from man? Robert A was just trying to engage you in a genuine discussion.

37

I haven’t (intentionally) reacted in anger, obviously it’s come across differently in reading. Admittedly it was dismissive but that’s because I have had the Haye discussion more times than I care to mention.

38

FWIW Heymaker,

the American courts of justice practice common Law, which we inherited from Merry Old England. Cheers.

39

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]redstar144 wrote:
Loosely related to thread title. What are peoples opinions on the double standards shown to Mayweather and Chisora. The whole boxing world was in uproar over Chisoras behaviour (which was disgraceful) and he got heavily punished. The British Boxing Board has no taken away his licence. This for fighting with other professional fighters outside the ring and generally behaving like a dick. Mayweather smacked his girlfriend and threatened his children which I think is considerably worse behaviour. I know he got jail time but the boxing world got less excited about it. He wasn’t even banned for a time. The two punishments seem totally out of proportion. [/quote]

Many, many, many boxers have legal trouble. It does not pertain to their given sport, or how they perform in that given sport. And as I said in the above post, if they banned every fighter who had legal trouble, you’d never see a fight again. Boxers aren’t like other athletes.

And honestly, even though Chisora’s a punk and a bitch, for the Miss Nancies in the british boxing commission to strip his license for it is ridiculous.

Classy? Nope. A crime? Absolutely not. As the saying goes, fighters fight, even when you don’t want them to sometimes.

But, Britain is notorious for being bitches like that. They’ve got so much sand in their vaginas it could fill the fairytale castle in London… I mean, they banned fucking guns. Seriously…[/quote]

Banning? I don’t want Maywhether banned. I just want to see consistency.

Hypocritical to bemoan my comments about America and then do similar about my country of origin.

40

[quote]Heymaker wrote:

Banning? I don’t want Maywhether banned. I just want to see consistency.

Hypocritical to bemoan my comments about America and then do similar about my country of origin.[/quote]

Why would you expect consistency when the boxing commissions in question are from DIFFERENT COUNTRIES?

And considering I just said Chisora should not have been stripped of his license, I think I’m being consistent.

Maybe Chisora should have slapped him with a white glove. Then they could have dueled in a field out behind the building. The brits would have been cool with that.