Iraq Election

[rainjack]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Zeppelin795 wrote:
Rainjack: Do you believe that Iraqi’s are in control of their oil?

Nice try. Really. But I’m not taking the bait. I’ll ask you - Do YOU think the Iraqis are in control of their oil?

It’s not bait just a simple question you won’t answer for fear I’ll hold you to your own standard. Nice duck![/quote]

No, you’re trying to get me to do what I have asked you to do several times already - prove that the U.S. is “in control” of Iraqi oil.

I’ll answer the question as soon as you respond to my request - which is a couple of weeks old. That sorry little ploy might work with your college friends, but I am not one of them.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Zeppelin795 wrote:
Rainjack: Do you believe that Iraqi’s are in control of their oil?

Nice try. Really. But I’m not taking the bait. I’ll ask you - Do YOU think the Iraqis are in control of their oil?[/quote]

No the Iraqi’s are not in control of their oil.

The U.S. tried to prevent democratic elections for fear that this would lead to the Iraqi’s being in control instead of a U.S. puppet regime. They eventually were compelled to accept elections by mass non-violent resistance. However, the U.S. is still desperately trying to set-up a military regime that they can control.

This is one of the reasons we won’t pull out as of yet. I’d imagine the only way our soldiers get a chance to come back home is if a puppet regime is in place or the cost becomes so great that their is no other alternative. But this is an enormous headache for Wasington as the reprocussions are extremely serious.

The British Ministry of Defence conducted a poll that was eventually leaked to the British press which stated that 82% of the population wanted the coalition forces gone. I don’t think it was reported in the U.S.

Taking control of Iraq will strengthen enormously the U.S. control over the major energy source of the world. It gives us critical leverage over our competitors
- Zbigniew Brezsinski(NSA Carter)

Gallup went in and polled Iraqi’s to see what they thought the coalition forces were doing in Iraq. Most replied for oil and to strengthen the U.S. position.

The polls taken by the British M of D and Gallop reflect the thoughts of the people of Iraq. Not the propaganda of the Pentagon and this administration who feed these lies to the lapdog U.S. mass media which gets digested by the majority of Americans.

What do you think would be the policies undertaken by a truly democratic Iraq? Could they pose any danger for Washington?

[rainjack]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
No the Iraqi’s are not in control of their oil.

The U.S. tried to prevent democratic elections for fear that this would lead to the Iraqi’s being in control instead of a U.S. puppet regime. They eventually were compelled to accept elections by mass non-violent resistance. However, the U.S. is still desperately trying to set-up a military regime that they can control.[/quote]

And what source are you using to base this on?

Funny, but I could have sworn I saw reports about 11 million voters going to the polls this last time around. Are you saying that they were forced to vote? If so, then were the U.S. weapons aimed at the citizens to encourage their participation rather than protecting them?

This is one of the reasons we won’t pull out as of yet. I’d imagine the only way our soldiers get a chance to come back home is if a puppet regime is in place or the cost becomes so great that their is no other alternative. But this is an enormous headache for Wasington as the reprocussions are extremely serious.

Wow - where do you get this stuff from?

The British Ministry of Defence conducted a poll that was eventually leaked to the British press which stated that 82% of the population wanted the coalition forces gone. I don’t think it was reported in the U.S.

I am all for the U.S. forces coming home. I think it is idiotic to say that anyone wants the troops to stay over there one day longer than they need to be.

[quote]Taking control of Iraq will strengthen enormously the U.S. control over the major energy source of the world. It gives us critical leverage over our competitors
- Zbigniew Brezsinski(NSA Carter)[/quote]

I think one of the reasions we are in Iraq is to provide stability on the region, which in turn makes oil a less volatile commodity on the open market. But I really don’t think one man’s opinion is really proof of anything other than him having the ability to have one.

Gallup went in and polled Iraqi’s to see what they thought the coalition forces were doing in Iraq. Most replied for oil and to strengthen the U.S. position.

What Iraqis ‘thought’ is hardly proof that the U.S. is indeed in control of Iraqi oil. You want to think it is proof because you want so badly for the U.S. to be the evil monsters of your dreams. It ttakes a little bit more than a fucking Gallup poll to prove your point.

The polls taken by the British M of D and Gallop reflect the thoughts of the people of Iraq. Not the propaganda of the Pentagon and this administration who feed these lies to the lapdog U.S. mass media which gets digested by the majority of Americans.

But is nothing more than public opinion. Proof is required to make your case - not what people think.

What do you think would be the policies undertaken by a truly democratic Iraq? Could they pose any danger for Washington?

As long as Iraq is giving people the right to exercise their right to self-determination, I am all for it. Maybe it causes trouble for the U.S., but I really don’t know of any free and open society that the U.S. is steadfastly opposed to. We may not like them, and they may stab us in the back down the road, but hell - we are already dealing with the French, so it’s not like it would be a new thing.

[The_Mage]

[quote]vroom wrote:
Everybody arguing about oil and war should go see the movie Syriana.[/quote]

No, they should see Harry Potter.

[The_Mage]

Does anyone know that chapter 4, article 109 of the draft constitution states that: “Oil and gas is the property of all the Iraqi people in all the regions and provinces” (At least was true on October 14th of this year. (2005 at this writing.)

About the media not telling us the Iraqis do not want us there, that’s funny, I have heard that repeatedly on FOX.

There are also people in Iraq who do not want us there, yet believe it is better that we are there. Not wanting us there, and knowing we are needed are two different things.

Just like people saying they are not satisfied with the job the president is doing does not mean they would not vote for him again. It doesn?t tell the whole story, such as taking the other candidate into account.

If you polled Americans on whether they wanted to pay taxes or not, what do you think the response would be? Yet I do not think that same majority would vote for eliminating taxes altogether. I wouldn’t. And it isn’t because I love paying taxes.

I believe Puerto Rico has repeatedly protested the military base there, yet the second it was proposed to remove it, they got upset because their economy would take a big hit if the base left.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]vroom wrote:
Everybody arguing about oil and war should go see the movie Syriana.[/quote]

I saw an hour long special on the making of the movie.

It seems that the reason the terrorists hate us is that we buy oil from the dictatorships no matter how bad they are and the little guy in the middle east always gets screwed.

We never isolate a dictatorship, refuse to buy oil from them or try to overthrow them.

Interesting theory, but it is exactly the opposite of how we have treated Iraq for the last 15 years.

I think I will save my money.

[Zeppelin795]

rainjack: Question. If the U.S. is committed to spreading democracy then why won’t they listen to the democratic wishes of the country in which they invaded?

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
rainjack: Question. If the U.S. is committed to spreading democracy then why won’t they listen to the democratic wishes of the country in which they invaded?

[/quote]

What democratic wishes?

Please don’t tell me you are referring to some poll that says most Iraqis don’t want US troops in Iraq.

The same polls also show that Iraqis don’t want our soldiers to leave yet because they know are soldiers are keeping the peace.

And polls are not the same as elections.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Zeppelin795 wrote:
rainjack: Question. If the U.S. is committed to spreading democracy then why won’t they listen to the democratic wishes of the country in which they invaded?

What democratic wishes?

Please don’t tell me you are referring to some poll that says most Iraqis don’t want US troops in Iraq.

The same polls also show that Iraqis don’t want our soldiers to leave yet because they know are soldiers are keeping the peace.

And polls are not the same as elections. [/quote]

Yes the polls taken by the British D of M and the Gallup polls.

The soldiers aren’t keeping the peace they are fodder for the insurgents and the Iraqi’s don’t want them there so we should leave.

[Zap_Branigan]

The same polls that say the Iraqi people don’t want our troops there also say they don’t want our troops to withdraw yet because the situation will be more dangerous without them.

[vroom]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
Everybody arguing about oil and war should go see the movie Syriana.

I saw an hour long special on the making of the movie.

It seems that the reason the terrorists hate us is that we buy oil from the dictatorships no matter how bad they are and the little guy in the middle east always gets screwed.

We never isolate a dictatorship, refuse to buy oil from them or try to overthrow them.

Interesting theory, but it is exactly the opposite of how we have treated Iraq for the last 15 years.

I think I will save my money.[/quote]

LOL, what a dipshit. It’s not a Michael Moore piece, it’s entertainment, a movie, it was pretty interesting and offers insights, for either side of the political spectrum.

As to whether or not it has anything to do with reality, it is an eye opener with respect to the concepts of corruption and justice in Washington, which is pretty damned timely as well.

At the same time, sure, there will be some lefty wingnuts that take it as gospel.

[Zap_Branigan]

The special on the making of the movie was very heavy handed.

Not a blame Bush piece, more of a blame the west for daring to use oil. It is our fault the mideast is fucked up kind of vibe.

I may watch the movie when it comes on free TV but I am not paying for it.

[vroom]

Zap,

Perhaps, just perhaps, politics is playing too big a role in your life?

I mean, that it dictates what movies you should or should not watch because they could contain messages that you disagree with?

Wow.

[Zap_Branigan]

Nope. I saw the special on it. Lokks like a crappy movie based on a bogus premise. No need to waste money on it.

I would rather read the book it is based on.