I don’t know who FI is, but you are a human septic tank, an anthropomorphized collection of brain injuries and opportunistic infections, a spineless nutless dickless brainless mind-numbingly stupid sack of shit and moral failures so thoroughly vermicular in behavior and intellectual temperament that I cannot read one of your posts without being overcome with bittersweet nostalgia for the fishing trips I used to take with my grandfather when I was a boy.
Again, he beat me to it.
The fact of the matter is that congress facilitated a gross breach of diplomatic decorum, which is clear to those who can be bothered to aquaint themselves with such things. It was a flaccid political maneuver orchestrated by individuals who were attempting to score partisan points. A head of state does come before an allies legislative branch to publically speak against the executive’s foreign policy. If Obama had done so, PWI would implode.
Again, the deal clearly increases the efficacy and international legitimacy of the military option significantly, which is why even Iran Hawks should be for the deal. For those that hold such notions as “nuclear weapons are useless” (they are used 24/7) and “Iran will be able to legally pursue nuclear weapons 15 years into the deal”, I suppose that isn’t the case.
It’s unclear why you think a number of instances of crude, improvised gas attacks with chlorine (the ingredients of which sort of [relatively very ineffective] weapon are literally sitting within blocks of my apartment and indeed in unremarkable, lightly-regulated industrial zones all over the world) has any bearing whatsoever on the obvious victory that is the confiscation and destruction of literally thousands of tons of mustard, sarin, and VX agent formerly occupying the most politically volatile region in the known universe. (Hint: there is a very, very good reason that the word “chlorine” does not have the same effect on you, psychologically, as the word “sarin.”)
Wait, no, it isn’t unclear. You don’t think it has any bearing on the said obvious victory, because it doesn’t. And it doesn’t have any bearing on the JCPOA, either. You are simply grasping at whatever might help you to remain the babbling High Priest of your chosen unreality.
AND HE’S BACK!!!
That one was blistering too!
I’m glad you understand that is the literary elite, You, DB Cooper, and Fightin Irish (an old PWI regular from way back) are held to a higher standard. A standard which you have just kicked up a good notch.
Congratulations. May the puss from your psychological traumas continue to effluviate mightily.
Aw SkyzykS, I’m touched.
So an improvised gas attack is somehow less deadly than a “real” gas attack? Both Chlorine and Mustard gas were used during World War I with devastating results.
Likewise castor oil is something you could buy in a store probably blocks away from your apartment and in unremarkable, lightly-regulated zones all over the world, yet is used to create one of the most deadly poisons known to man: ricin.
So if ricin was used in an attack, we could write it off because it’s made from castor oil seeds? Doesn’t make it any less potentially dangerous.
If the use of an improvised gas is no big deal because it’s stored blocks away from your apartment, then tell me why the UN envoy to Syria is investigating it as a possible war crime and why “the UN security council passed a resolution under chapter 7 of the UN charter condemning its use”?
Your great leader Obama let Syria cross his red line by claiming, as you do, that Chlorine is not traditionally used as a gas. Obama, who also said I could keep my doctor, should tell that to the families of the maimed and dead from World War I and Syria.
I am tired of leading you through deep thickets of confusion, so please do better in the future, because this is all obvious and easy.
First, yes, sarin is a much more deadly and much more dangerous and much more effective weapon than chlorine. Again, that’s why words like “sarin” and “VX” chill you in a way that “chlorine” doesn’t. A very quick Wikipedia search suggests that sarin is in fact 543 times more lethal than chlorine gas. This is one of the many reasons that sarin (unlike the ingredients for weaponized chlorine gas) is the kind of thing that we watch very closely. It’s also the reason that, in terms of conventional warfare, the path of escalation leading from sarin to a nuclear strike is short and obvious.
Second, and relatedly, sarin is not something that I can buy with a simple permit for low-level industrial work. Chlorine is. So, and please pay attention here, it would be quite literally impossible to stop some group from using chlorine if they so desire. It is not impossible or futile, on the other hand, to try to control global stockpiles of more sophisticated (and rarer, and much more dangerous) chemical WMD. Here in reality, we concern ourselves with what is possible.
And so we arrive anew at the truth, which is that a handful of crude and relatively ineffective chlorine attacks do not mitigate in the slightest the obvious victory that is the confiscation of literally thousands of tons of mustard, sarin, and VX from the most volatile region on Earth. This is as objectively and numerically true as it is logically certain. It was also explained to you in lurid detail over the course of a different thread. You aren’t going to deny it, because it is undeniable, and you have neither a point nor a clue here. You are simply trying as hard as you possibly can to impose a fantasy you enjoy on the rest of us. It is futile, and I’m not going to waste any more time knocking it down.
Me too. I needed a good laugh and that was great.
I already put in more effort than it was worth.
Many of us have been saying this very thing about Obama’s administration vs. Carter. And honestly it’s very arguable he is worse than Carter. I believe that.
It absolutely makes me scream in frustration to see this happening. I feel so bad for the kurds
Yes, because that wouldn’t be the first time by a long shot that a US administration has exhibited absolute obliviousness over foreign policy, and especially not in the ME.
These things are not by any stretch conspiratorial to me and Loppar is by far one of the most well traveled and well educated here on happenings there. He’s also far and away from a conspiracy tin foil hat wearing nut.
On a general note, I really can’t believe that you feel so confident about ANY administration. I take the opposite tack–it’s been shown that many admins were hopelessly outplayed and/or simply uninformed in FP matter over the past decades. My opposition is strictly non-partisan.
I think it is very evident that the Western mind does not readily understand the inner workings of the ME mind. That throws entire executive policy directions out of whack
I am truly touched that I give the two of you such hard-ons… especially since one of you is on ignore and yet seem to stalk me like hurt school girl who thought it was true love…
Anyway, your incessant whine and insults aside, whether or not you think it’s appropriate for Netanyahu to speak to Congress is purely opinion. It’s like trying to convince somebody your favorite color is better than theirs.
So while you’re screaming about how pink is better, I don’t care. The man was invited by Congress to speak. He showed up and spoke and I have no issue with it. Apparently you do. It’s your right to hold the opinion you have. Your arguments on why I should think like you, are hardly convincing but I am touched it matters to you that I agree with you.
P.S. Just because you quoted smh_23, doesn’t mean I read it. I didn’t and won’t for future reference. You are welcome to quote who ever you want in your posts and it’s my option to read those quotes or not. If you quote someone on my ignore list, it will continue to be ignored. Shoving them in my face will not make me read them…
(See apology and my feelings on loppar and Biz’s posting above).
Aragorn:
I wouldn’t go so far to say that I am confidant in what any and all Administrations do.
History has proven that they can screw up and screw-up royally; ESPECIALLY when it comes to the shit-hole known as the ME.
I am the first to concede that.
By the same token; I am just a little more “hesitant” to concede incompetence and ill-intent with each and every decision made.
One other thing:
Comparing Administrations based on the decisions they make can be tricky at best.
Times; circumstances; Political realities that exist at the time; all of the players involved…
A number of factors can result in comparing the Proverbial Apples to Oranges.
I don’t deny anything you have said. Yes, the siesure of Sarin and VX from Syria was a great thing. But just because can not hope to stop the spread of Chlorine, it is no big deal it is being used? The friggin UN is calling it’s use a war crime.
But once again you totally missed my point. As usual.
Obama said he would bomb Syria if the Syrian regime used chemical weapons against it’s own citizens. I don’t care if a million pounds of both Sarin and VX were taken from the country. I don’t care if you can buy Chlorine in a Wal-Mart. I don’t care if a Chlorine bomb killed only one single person.
If Chlorine is indeed a chemical weapon, why didn’t we bomb Syria after it’s initial use before the Russians sent their troops & planes into the country?
So what you are basically saying is Chlorine is not considered a chemical weapon. Because if it was Syria would have been bombed.
Either that, or Obama failed to back up his red line threat.
So which is it?
A Chlorine attack is a chemical attack? No? Am I wrong here? Chlorine is not made of chemicals and these chemicals do not have a history of killing and maiming people in several wars around the globe including World War I?
You are wrong. The Chlorine use proved to the world including the Russians that the Americans do not back up their word. It made America look weak and now we have Russians, Iranians and Hezbollah fighters in Syria propping up the regime.
Your entire argument is wrong. I say that backing out of the Red line threat makes America weak. You say, how can that be so, we look so strong since the Russians took all of Syria’s chemical weapons out of the country. Now they used Chlorine and the world has been shown the weakness of the United States administration. And now you’ve got Russians in Ukraine and in Syria.
When the bulk of our nations armed forces were right on Russia’s doorstep in Afghanistan, they dared not make a move against us. Now they have become emboldened. It sure ain’t because Obama makes the US look strong.
I read a really good essay on this back in college. There are so many, and such drastic differences in our/their thinking that it is virtually impossible to rectify any of them, let alone enough of them to create a working peace accord.
If I can find my old book I’ll see if its published on the web too.
Yeah I missed the apology, I was behind in the thread and just sort of replied right away.
That’s fair, but I think we will have to agree to disagree on that then. I don’t believe Obama has bad intentions…just that he is completely out of touch. I am with loppar on this, I would even term it incompetence.
Not because we can’t solve the humanitarian/human rights problems or the chronic warfare/despotism (it isn’t ours to solve first and it isn’t likely to be solvable at present second). I believe it because he failed mightily to enhance or even maintain our influence in the region. The past 8 years have seen a diminution of American influence there and an increase in Russian influence, our allies are more circumspect and have outright said they don’t believe us about things, and we just capped everything off by fucking up the Kurds in a way that reminds me of the way the Bay of Pigs left people out to dry, only much worse.
In short, the POTUS job is to see our interests and influence increase, not decrease. If one subscribes to realism in foreign policy, then one also subscribes to the idea that letting someone else take over parts of your sphere of influence as well as giving away leverage in world affairs in the region with nothing in return is universally a bad idea. Most particularly in the ME where
Russia has seen a gain in their sphere of influence, and we have gotten exactly squat for letting them lead. It’s a PR coup for Putin as well as a material loss for us and our allies.
The other way to think about it is this: the ME is already a clusterfuck. We have already had a history of arming bad guys and then bombing bad guys, sometimes the very same bad guys. So if Obama’s administration were to follow through on the “red line” threat it would have been:
Not unprecedented in our approach
No different than things we’d already done
Shown that the “cowboys mean what they say”, no matter how goofy or ill-thought our alliances and direction.
In other words, even let’s say everything goes wrong in the region just like it already has: power vacuum and all the rest. We’re still the big dog, Russia is still on the outs, and we’re still feared in some sense by the regional leaders because the only thing worse than a powerful enemy is a powerful unpredictable enemy that does what they warn you they are going to do. In other words, the kind of power these despots have been wielding.
In short, even if it was a mistake things don’t end up worse and we keep our leverage and pre-eminence.
Fair enough.
Agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing.
I’ve read the same thing concerning the Eastern mind (that is China, Japan, etc) and it is what prompted me to write that. One must understand the mindset and culture some place before trying to play around in the neighborhood.