Iran: If Not Now, When?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
What exactly is your problem Gambit? [/quote]

You made a wild claim, I bit. Now you seem to be dodging questions. I guess my “problem” is that some otherwise very intelligent people still like to “hate” on the US without honestly thinking about things.

This is exactly where we started, except you only mentioned the Middle East. I asked you for an example. You, thus far, have only provided one and it was from almost 60 years ago.

Perhaps I missed this, what “process” are you talking about?

[quote] The difference is that we’re on the brink of a global economic collapse and another war will not prevent that, only expedite it. [/quote] Agreed, that is a real threat. Now let’s weigh that against what will happen if Iran gets nukes and we can have a conversation.

I believe you implied that the US destabilized Korea, or at least that the US was wrong to go into Korea. Many South Koreans would argue otherwise. The pic shows in stark contrast the difference between North and South. [/quote]

The “process” that’s still going on, and started in the wake at the end of WW2, is to establish an american presence in strategic areas anywhere in the world.

That presence takes different forms: by funding guerillas, install puppet regimes and more favorably by providing a positive economic upswing.

It’s not all bad, that’s not what I’m saying, but in light of the last decade the USA overplayed its hand. The chance of Iran getting acces to nuclear arms is minor, but it’s a neat excuse to push for a war with Iran.

Even if Iran did get the technology to build nuclear arms, and they actually get nukes, the fear that they might sell the bombs, or even use it pro-actively, is unfounded.

There are many nations that have a nuclear arsenal, and some of them aren’t pro-american per se: Pakistan, India, China [North-Korea supposedly too]. Why is that not an issue but Iran is?

Why do you even still believe anything your government tells you?

123

[quote]ephrem wrote:

The “process” that’s still going on, and started in the wake at the end of WW2, is to establish an american presence in strategic areas anywhere in the world.

That presence takes different forms: by funding guerillas, install puppet regimes and more favorably by providing a positive economic upswing.
[/quote]

To counter what the Soviet Union was doing all over the world as well. What process would you have liked us to take, do nothing? Sit on our hands while country after country fell behind the iron curtain and under Soviet control? One of the biggest totalitarian empires was crushed by the US, one that was on the verge of controling the world.

But to the revisionists, the US is evil and perhaps we would all be better off speaking Russian now.

125

Rather than allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb, we should instead use our own nuclear bombs to leave a giant crater where Iran is now.

126

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

The “process” that’s still going on, and started in the wake at the end of WW2, is to establish an american presence in strategic areas anywhere in the world.

That presence takes different forms: by funding guerillas, install puppet regimes and more favorably by providing a positive economic upswing.
[/quote]

To counter what the Soviet Union was doing all over the world as well. What process would you have liked us to take, do nothing? Sit on our hands while country after country fell behind the iron curtain and under Soviet control? One of the biggest totalitarian empires was crushed by the US, one that was on the verge of controling the world.

But to the revisionists, the US is evil and perhaps we would all be better off speaking Russian now.[/quote]

“Crushed” is the revisionist part Gkhan. The USSR was economically untenable, just like the USA is becoming. Both will collaps under the weight of its own stupidity, and europe is no different.

Russia did what it thought it needed to do to safeguard its borders. Its monolithic nature was different in essence from the american dream, that much is certainly true, but please stop believing in the good-guy act.

The USA stopped being the good-guy a long time ago.

127

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
The chance of Iran getting acces to nuclear arms is minor, but it’s a neat excuse to push for a war with Iran.

[/quote]
That’s an amazing statement right there!

Other than your apparent omniscience, do you have anything to back that up?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
There are many nations that have a nuclear arsenal, and some of them aren’t pro-american per se: Pakistan, India, China [North-Korea supposedly too]. Why is that not an issue but Iran is?
[/quote]

  1. WHO said it’s not an issue? You?
  2. The US has SOME form of a working relationship with those other countries, and productive dialogue is possible.

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Why do you even still believe anything your government tells you?
[/quote]
Why do you find it necessary to hate the US so much?[/quote]

No, I don’t have fabricated evidence to back my claims up, sorry about that.

I do not hate the US, I fear the US. Its death-throws are going to be violent, and I wish arming myself wouldn’t be such a hassle but it won’t stop me from trying.

128

[quote]ephrem wrote:
The USA stopped being the good-guy a long time ago.
[/quote]

So, there’s no difference between the USA and the Soviet Union in your opinion?

Do you think the wrong side won?

and if I take the world of the Islamic extremists who we are at war with, Holland isn’t a good guy either.

Do you hate the Holland’s government?

Maybe I should, since the Muslim extremists say so.

129

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, no wonder at all.

A prick, is a prick, is a prick.

When that same prick considers it “an act of war” when his victim wont return a spy drone he just happened to lose it ventures into the realm of the surreal though. [/quote]

I think any of these qualify as an act of war, but war crimes perpetrated by Iran against Americans/others are, like the Russians, given a free pass by the anti-american, revisionists.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wikileaks-iran-al-qaeda-connection_520538.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/secretary-clinton-assassination-plot-conceived-and-directed-tehran_595835.html

[/quote]

Yeah, sure, but that does not make the US the innocent victim.

Just a participant in a clandestine wars that was started by the US.

130

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Oh they might have gotten into trouble without foreign involvement, the fact of the matter however is that they had plenty of help from both the US and the UK.

Before and during the Sha regime.

Add to that the help to Saddam Hussein during the Iraq/Iran war,

[/quote]

You skipped the Iranian revolution and the hostage crisis. Any wonder U.S. aided Saddam?[/quote]

As well as Iran’s past smoochy-poochy relationship with Nazi Germany (and Austria).[/quote]

So?

Any relevance at all?

131

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Why do you even still believe anything your government tells you?
[/quote]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naïveté[/quote]

Why that is very intellectually honest of you Push!

132

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Rather than allowing Iran to have a nuclear bomb, we should instead use our own nuclear bombs to leave a giant crater where Iran is now.[/quote]

And practically insure that other nations requite nukes by any means necessary and plant them in major US cities.

Excellent thinking, bringing an empire down by overspending is an entirely too long and too tedious process.

Why not hit the reset button?

134

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
The USA stopped being the good-guy a long time ago.
[/quote]

So, there’s no difference between the USA and the Soviet Union in your opinion?

Do you think the wrong side won?

and if I take the world of the Islamic extremists who we are at war with, Holland isn’t a good guy either.

Do you hate the Holland’s government?

Maybe I should, since the Muslim extremists say so.[/quote]

I hate nothing, but I have a strong dislike for hypocrisy.

Nobody won except for the plutocrats.

Get that through your thick skull and stop drinking the cool-aid.

135

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Why do you even still believe anything your government tells you?
[/quote]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naïveté[/quote]

Why that is very intellectually honest of you Push![/quote]

Sarcasm is not an american’s strong suite, but irony is also completely lost on push.

136

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

No, I don’t have fabricated evidence to back my claims up, sorry about that.

[/quote]

Hey, it doesn’t have to be fabricated. Real evidence is fine.

I mean, something, you know, besides your opinion?[/quote]

No, nothing, sorry. Since when is that a requirement on PWI?

139

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

No, I don’t have fabricated evidence to back my claims up, sorry about that.

[/quote]

Hey, it doesn’t have to be fabricated. Real evidence is fine.

I mean, something, you know, besides your opinion?[/quote]

No, nothing, sorry. Since when is that a requirement on PWI?
[/quote]

Oh, it’s not.

Unless you plan on being taken seriously, of course.[/quote]

Taken seriously by whom? You? Why would I care about that?

140

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sarcasm is not an american’s strong suite …
[/quote]

And how would you know that?

Spent alot of time living in the US, have you?[/quote]

No, it’s common knowledge, you know, just like “they hate us for our freedoms”.