Iran Elections

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
186

[quote]orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

This needs no discussion whatsoever, like the assumption that everything that is perceived as a threat by the most emasculated and pussified generation of Americans this world has seen so far, needs some solid bombing.

AS I recall, that’s exactly what your Austrian forebears thought about the American “Greatest Generation”… you know, that generation that kicked your asses.

Look, your “greatest generation” came to Europe after we had been to war for years and barely beat us with 10 times the materiel.

I am glad that they did, but that is hardly a testament to their masculinity.

Eisenhower simply built a tower of planes and tanks in England and then pushed it over to bury a depleted Germany under it.

Nah not quite. We fought two wars on two fronts across the world, and, uhh… yea, we kicked your asses. Not “barely” either- pretty fucking convincingly, especially for getting only half of our resources directed towards you as well.

Imagine if all those troops that fought and died in the Pacific were there also. Christ.

USA-2
Austrians- 0

Game’s over.

Yup.

Find me three credible military historians that agree that the US of 1943-1944 would have beat a 1938-1939 Wehrmacht and you win.

You know what?

Get Hedo to agree on that and you win.

[/quote]

Interesting question. I don’t know if three military historians would agree on anything but I’ll take a shot at it later on tonight.

187

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

This needs no discussion whatsoever, like the assumption that everything that is perceived as a threat by the most emasculated and pussified generation of Americans this world has seen so far, needs some solid bombing.

AS I recall, that’s exactly what your Austrian forebears thought about the American “Greatest Generation”… you know, that generation that kicked your asses.

Look, your “greatest generation” came to Europe after we had been to war for years and barely beat us with 10 times the materiel.

I am glad that they did, but that is hardly a testament to their masculinity.

Eisenhower simply built a tower of planes and tanks in England and then pushed it over to bury a depleted Germany under it.

This forum is usually pretty entertaining, but your statements might be the funniest thing I have ever read on here.

Congrats, you just out-retarded lixy.

You must be so proud.
[/quote]

Thank you, and that means so much coming from a man with such exceptional debating skills!

Your intellectual achievements and rhetorical prowess are a shining beacon of applied reason on this forum and I salute you Sir!

189

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

Yup.

Find me three credible military historians that agree that the US of 1943-1944 would have beat a 1938-1939 Wehrmacht and you win.

You know what?

Get Hedo to agree on that and you win.

Fuck you, do your own homework.

Fact is, if all of America’s forces from both theaters were concentrated in the Western Front, they would have annihilated Germany in an even shorter amount of time.

You’re proving that you don’t know shit about war. After a year, Germany would have had their supply lines decimated, just like they did, because it’s far easier to bomb Germany from France than it is to bomb America from Germany.

They would have never touched our industrial base, all the while we would be firebombing theirs. Our civilians would have been untouched, as they were, while yours would be dying by the thousands (which they did). The war would have turned out no differently. [/quote]

But that destroys your whole argument, does it not?

For how where Americans special if even the Smurfs could have won that war under those conditions?

You are trying to have your cake and eat it.

192

[quote]orion wrote:
UtahLama wrote:
orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

This needs no discussion whatsoever, like the assumption that everything that is perceived as a threat by the most emasculated and pussified generation of Americans this world has seen so far, needs some solid bombing.

AS I recall, that’s exactly what your Austrian forebears thought about the American “Greatest Generation”… you know, that generation that kicked your asses.

Look, your “greatest generation” came to Europe after we had been to war for years and barely beat us with 10 times the materiel.

I am glad that they did, but that is hardly a testament to their masculinity.

Eisenhower simply built a tower of planes and tanks in England and then pushed it over to bury a depleted Germany under it.

This forum is usually pretty entertaining, but your statements might be the funniest thing I have ever read on here.

Congrats, you just out-retarded lixy.

You must be so proud.

Thank you, and that means so much coming from a man with such exceptional debating skills!

Your intellectual achievements and rhetorical prowess are a shining beacon of applied reason on this forum and I salute you Sir!

[/quote]

You realize that you just said “intellectual achievements and rhetorical prowess” in the PWI forum right? Did that make your head hurt?

And yes if you continue to cling to your above stated viewpoint, you have been drinking far too much anti United States cool-aid.

193

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
<<< Obama takes a harder line- >>>

Feel better now?

I do.

I think once he figured they were blaming us anyway it got to be like, “Ah what the fuck.”[/quote]

Precisely what I’ve been saying. I feel better now that he’s done that.

194

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Obama Assails Iran for Violent Response to Protests

It’s all about the details. For the violence, not the election.

[/quote]

True, but I’ll take what I can get with him.

195

[quote]orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

Yup.

Find me three credible military historians that agree that the US of 1943-1944 would have beat a 1938-1939 Wehrmacht and you win.

You know what?

Get Hedo to agree on that and you win.

Fuck you, do your own homework.

Fact is, if all of America’s forces from both theaters were concentrated in the Western Front, they would have annihilated Germany in an even shorter amount of time.

You’re proving that you don’t know shit about war. After a year, Germany would have had their supply lines decimated, just like they did, because it’s far easier to bomb Germany from France than it is to bomb America from Germany.

They would have never touched our industrial base, all the while we would be firebombing theirs. Our civilians would have been untouched, as they were, while yours would be dying by the thousands (which they did). The war would have turned out no differently.

But that destroys your whole argument, does it not?

For how where Americans special if even the Smurfs could have won that war under those conditions?

You are trying to have your cake and eat it.

[/quote]

You complained that anyone would have been able to win a war with “a tower of planes” as you put it. Maybe. In my mind what makes America special is the unheard-of pure speed with which we went from 0 to 60. No real force and the Wildcat (pfft!) as one of our top of the line fighters, to monster force AND manpower enough to fight a worldwide two front war and win. Even Germany couldn’t top the speed with which we mobilized our manufacturing processes.

It’s the ability we manifested in putting all the pieces of the military together with the speed we did it. I think you’ll find that at least more than a few historians agree that our manufacturing power was far and above Germany’s, and is what allowed us to mobilize with inhuman speed for the 1940s.

Now…back on topic please?

196

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

For how where Americans special if even the Smurfs could have won that war under those conditions?

Who the fuck said America was “special?” We’re good at winning wars. We built up our industrial base way past anyone else, we are adept at creating technology and then pushing it straight into usage, and we’ve got the manpower to use it all.

Lions don’t apologize for their size. They kill shit because it’s what they do. When you get us in a war, we kill shit in any way possible. And win. So take your delusions of grandeur elsewhere. [/quote]

Well I read that even the lowest classes in Rome took pride in Romes victories and I never understood the concept.

I would not exactly call you plebes but you are definitely not part of the ruling class either so Rom…, um the US victories have only cost you in money and lives and sacrifice.

And yet you are proud of her victories and when their field emblem, the SPQR is seen, the SenatusPopulusQueRomanus, your heart leaps with joy because even though your life sucks, and that what was written on the emblem is and has been a lie for centuries, you ate least were ROMAN.

Um, I am sorry, please replace US with Rome wherever appropriate.

198

[quote]orion wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
orion wrote:
Well then get all hysterical over them for a change.

But you never do.

They can blow up your buildings and you don�??�?�´t.

Why is that?

ah, we do. Most of us here hate al-qaeda and the Taliban. Or did that go over your head?

But like I said, you want to talk Saudi Arabia, make a thread about it.

This one’s about Iran.

Well I was talking about the Saudi financed, Saudi planned and Saudi executed killing of 3000 people that led to an attack on Iraq, that had nothing to do with it and the Taliban that also had nothing to do with it, except for hosting the master mind. They even would have given him to you had you provided some evidence of his guilt.

But somehow Saudi Arabia is never an issue, whereas the whole world must suffer if 3000 Americans die.

Why is that?

Because your media and politicians do not constantly feed you soundbites, that is why.

Maybe you should go on a strict diet of European media for a month to notice the complete absence of hysterical fear mongering.

[/quote]

I don’t want to get into the whole thing over and over again about Iraq having nothing to do with 9-11 and we know that. The wahabbis are conducting a world war whether or not 3000 Americans died. The act of killing 3000 Americans brought us into the fight. They had been fighting in Yugoslavia, Chechnia, Pakistan, Thailand, the Phillipines, the Middle East, Russia Africa, ect for some time.

But once again, save it for another thread. This one’s about Iran and the situation there. Does bringing up mass hatred against the United States somehow lessen or make right what is going on in Iran? I don’t understand the mentality of this.

While we’re at it why don’t we talk about Somalia. I hear the Ethopians are advancing once again. There’s also a civil war going on in Algeria as well. Does this make you feel all warm and fuzzy about Iran now?

199

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
It’s the ability we manifested in putting all the pieces of the military together with the speed we did it. I think you’ll find that at least more than a few historians agree that our manufacturing power was far and above Germany’s, and is what allowed us to mobilize with inhuman speed for the 1940s.

Now…back on topic please?[/quote]

That’s why Hitler told the Japs not to attack Pearl Harbor.

sorry.

200

[quote]orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
orion wrote:

This needs no discussion whatsoever, like the assumption that everything that is perceived as a threat by the most emasculated and pussified generation of Americans this world has seen so far, needs some solid bombing.

AS I recall, that’s exactly what your Austrian forebears thought about the American “Greatest Generation”… you know, that generation that kicked your asses.

Look, your “greatest generation” came to Europe after we had been to war for years and barely beat us with 10 times the materiel.

I am glad that they did, but that is hardly a testament to their masculinity.

Eisenhower simply built a tower of planes and tanks in England and then pushed it over to bury a depleted Germany under it.

Nah not quite. We fought two wars on two fronts across the world, and, uhh… yea, we kicked your asses. Not “barely” either- pretty fucking convincingly, especially for getting only half of our resources directed towards you as well.

Imagine if all those troops that fought and died in the Pacific were there also. Christ.

USA-2
Austrians- 0

Game’s over.

Yup.

Find me three credible military historians that agree that the US of 1943-1944 would have beat a 1938-1939 Wehrmacht and you win.

You know what?

Get Hedo to agree on that and you win.

[/quote]

Here’s my two cents on the matter.

Germany wasn’t barely defeated in WW2 it was conquered and vanquished as a nation for a good 50 years. To this day I don’t believe Germany represents a credible military force based on the size of it’s industrial base. That is due to WW2.

Back to the question of a US military in 43-44 vs. the Wehrmacht of 38-39? The Wehrmacht of that period was unquestionably the premier land army of the period. Strong tactical leadership, well trained soldiers and a beginning mechanized force using the Blitzkrieg tactics not seen on the modern battlefield. Certainly a formidable force that hadn’t yet seen a defeat. The US forces of the period were no match. Fortunately the Germans had no ability to project their forces across the Atlantic and no base from which to seriously launch an offensive against the US.

The US forces of the period 43-44 however, were a major military force, fighting in two theaters and in 1944 advancing with consistent speed. The Germans had an initial technological edge but by 43-44 the US Air Force not only had better planes but far more of them. The German armor of the 38-39 period was light. The MarkIV being no match for the Sherman of 1943. Again the Shermans would be far more numerous also. The Germans had not yet fielded the Tiger or Panther and the ME 109 would prove to be no match of the P-51 or P-47. At that point if we weren’t fighting the Japanese the Germans would have also faced the F4U Corsair and the B-29 again in enormous numbers. The US would have air superiority and an advanced armor force that the Germans couldn’t hope to match. Again this is 38-39 forces vs. 43-44 forces.

The biggest mistake the Germans made in procurement was not producing a heavy bomber in numbers. W/O that capability they were never able to inflict the damage needed to shut off the industrial base of the UK and deny the US a jumping off point. Had they produced the Condor in numbers , prior to 1941, the Battle of Britain may have turned out differently. W/O the ability to strike deep, in force ,the Germans could always be isolated and strangled and starved, although sometimes at great cost.

I would also argue that the Germans were fighting for territory and the US soldier was motivated by the desire to preserve a way of life. The US soldier didn’t want to conquer German territory and claim it as their own. They wanted to defeat Nazi’s and go back home. The Germans wanted territory in Poland and Russia and also wanted revenge from the French. For a time they got all of it, then lost it. Tactically the took on too much too fast without the ability to hold onto it.

As any professional warfighter will tell you. Tactics win battles. Logistics win wars. Professionals study logistics. The US military has no peer right now and really hasn’t for 60 years. The logistical management and preparation have a lot to do with that. So does the belief of the average US soldier that he is defending a way of life and not just punching a clock.

The Greatest Generation certainly earned that nickname via their actions and the outcomes they decided.

201

Sometimes I despair when I listen to people like you. Not because statement like this exist, but because so few of us have the courage to say that this is very wrong.

204

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

…a country that at least has somewhat fair and impartial institutions

Ha ha! Somebody knows shit about Iran’s political and legal system…That’d be you.

and has not waged a war of aggression since Dareios the whatever …

Because support for international terrorism doesn’t count.

the most emasculated and pussified generation of Americans this world has seen so far

A spoiled, weak, semi literate demos, corrupt politicians and a president that answers to no one.

Well, well. Looks like ol’ Franz has inherited some of Grandpa Nazi’s master racism.

Shame on you, Franz!

If only grandad and his buddies had been men enough to change the course of that war they started, eh? We could have ALL been superior, instead of just you Austrians.

But damn, beaten by a bunch of wussie Americans? That’d make grandad a real pussy, huh?

[/quote]

No, that made him die in a senseless war.

I have learned my lesson and I will not die in a senseless war.

You on the other hand just might unless you are just posing on the interwebz.

So who has learned what lesson?

206

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:

Lay off the Tom Clancy, boss.

I normally have this forum turned off but wanted to see if there was a discussion on the situation abroad, because:

A) I am Iranian

B) All my relatives are there (my immediate family is here with me, in CA)

C) We get Iranian satellite so we see what’s televised in Iran, but we also see radio/TV shows broadcast from Canada and US, intended for Iranians in Iran as well as abroad

D) My father is over there right now. Went on business a month ago, actually went to the polls and voted for Mousavi, and is now safely on a ranch in the middle of nowhere. Was holed up in an apartment until a few days ago in Esfahan to avoid running into police.


Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven’s part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse -
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
[b]Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born. [/b]

  • Yeats, Easter 1916.

Iran’s time has come.[/quote]

Thank you for this.