Iran Captures British Sailors

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:

If Islam wishes to gain the respect of the rest of the world (and not just take everything as spoils of conquest as Mohammed would) then they must mature, adapt and learn to behave in a less violent and unrestrained manner.
[/quote]

The basic premise of Islam is submission — you surrender your mind and will and become a robot. A Muslim is therefore rational only in so far as he/she IGNORES their religious tenets. They are robots at the command of some strungout Mullah waving his arms and telling them: “Kill, Kill, KILL the infidels!”

Now, these nuts have nukes, bio weapons, stinger missiles, and a whole array of other tools to achieve their dreams…and that’s why we MUST confront this challenge NOW. It must be now, or die. Take your choice; and your time is running out.

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Lixy:

This was the link I posted:

This was what I quoted:

“'Our missiles are now ready to strike at their civilization, and as soon as the instructions arrive from Leader [‘Ali Khamenei], we will launch our missiles at their cities and installations. . . There are 29 sensitive sites in the U.S. and in the West. We have already spied on these sites and we know how we are going to attack them.’”

and you MEMRI is a Zionist group and it’s all propaganda. Now, you claim this is true, which is it?

And as far as hitting Iran goes, if they are aiming to strike at our cities and sensitive sites, this sounds like a better candidate for a pre-empitve strike than Iraq ever was.

You constantly stick up for China on one hand, but blast Israel for occupying Palestine on the other.

Don’t you care that China is currently occupying Tibet? There are vast human rights violations going on there, but who cares? Their idol worshipping infidels, one step below Africans in the Sudan, right?

We need to only worry about the poor mistreated Palestinians because they’re Muslims.

223

The 15 sailors were gathering intelligence on Iran. No wonder they were scared shitless about what could happen to them!

"The captain in charge of the 15 marines detained in Iran has said they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.

Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days before the crisis began.

We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.

And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to “justify taking the marines captive and put them on trial”. "

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Now, these nuts have nukes, bio weapons, stinger missiles, and a whole array of other tools to achieve their dreams…and that’s why we MUST confront this challenge NOW. It must be now, or die. Take your choice; and your time is running out.

What I can not believe is the rest of the world, Europe, Russia, China, do not see this for what a threat it really is to the entire world.

The Us and Russia went through the cold war with an understanding of Mutual Assured Destruction.

These people we face now are ten times more dangerous than the Russians ever were. I remember Sting singing about the cold war ending some day because the Russians love their children too…

These crazys raise their kids to be suicide bombers. They have no regard for our lives or the lives of their own.

Russia and China arming these bastards with nukes will be a double edged sword.

225

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Now, these nuts have nukes, bio weapons, stinger missiles, and a whole array of other tools to achieve their dreams…and that’s why we MUST confront this challenge NOW. It must be now, or die. Take your choice; and your time is running out.

What I can not believe is the rest of the world, Europe, Russia, China, do not see this for what a threat it really is to the entire world.

The Us and Russia went through the cold war with an understanding of Mutual Assured Destruction.

These people we face now are ten times more dangerous than the Russians ever were. I remember Sting singing about the cold war ending some day because the Russians love their children too…

These crazys raise their kids to be suicide bombers. They have no regard for our lives or the lives of their own.

Russia and China arming these bastards with nukes will be a double edged sword.[/quote]

U.S. endorsed Iranian plans to build massive nuclear energy industry
Cheney Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz behind Iran Nuclear Program initiated during Ford Administration

…According to Washington Post Staff Writer Dafna Linzer, “Ford’s team endorsed Iranian plans to build a massive nuclear energy industry, but also worked hard to complete a multibillion-dollar deal that would have given Tehran control of large quantities of plutonium and enriched uranium - the two pathways to a nuclear bomb. Either can be shaped into the core of a nuclear warhead, and obtaining one or the other is generally considered the most significant obstacle to would-be weopons builders.”

What the current Bush Administration is asserting, particularly through its news agency Fox News, is that it needs to prevent Iran from achieving the exact same nuclear capabilities that President Ford and his key appointees, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz were encouraging Iran to accomplish 30 years ago. Iran, a party to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, is guaranteed the right to develop peaceful nuclear power programs - regardless of whether the United States approves or disapproves the politics or political leadership of that country…

If the American people understood that the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Congress have been funding many activities of the Islamic Republic of Iran, most would be skeptical of the federal government’s current claim that Iran’s 30 year old, U.S. sanctioned, nuclear program is somehow now an immediate threat to the security of the United States…

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I think they were our ally back then.

227

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I think they were our ally back then.[/quote]

Yep,or at least the enemy of our enemy. Remember we helped the Soviets out big time during WWII too.

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U.S. endorsed Iranian plans to build massive nuclear energy industry
Cheney Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz behind Iran Nuclear Program initiated during Ford Administration

If it was during the Ford admin. The Shah was still in power and Iran was an ally of the US. After the revolution, they became our enemy.

Backs my opinion about the double edged sword. We were helping our ally the shah create nuclear power and now our enemies want it and may use it against us.

Today, China and Russia are helping Iran do the same, who knows maybe in 30 years time, Iran’ll be threatening China and Russia with nukes

229

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Today, China and Russia are helping Iran do the same, who knows maybe in 30 years time, Iran’ll be threatening China and Russia with nukes
[/quote]

Unlikely. China and Russia never overthrew an elected president to install a bloody dictator in Iran. They respect Iran’s sovereignty and the right of its people to self-detemination.

Always keep that in sight when adressing the issue.

230

Mohammad Mossadegh was over thrown by the British and US in 1951, but I believe Russia occupied Iran along with the British from 1921 - 1946. The Iranians wouldn’t be angry about that now would they?

History did not begin in the post WWII age. There was A LOT of history before the US became a world power.

But seriously, how would you know that in 30 years the Iranians wouldn’t turn on the Russians and Chinese? Suppose someone WORSE gets in control and is pissed about all the terror the R & C caused the Muslims in their territories all these centuries, or do they somehow get a free pass?

Remember Afghanistan, waaaaaaaay back in the 80’s and how we helped the Muslims defeat the Communists?

In hindsight, since we’re so evil, maybe we should have let the Ruskies have at 'um with their Hind D’s.

(Mil Mi-24 - Wikipedia)

231

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Mohammad Mossadegh was over thrown by the British and US in 1951, but I believe Russia occupied Iran along with the British from 1921 - 1946. The Iranians wouldn’t be angry about that now would they?[/quote]

Absolutely not. Two reasons:

  • Russia isn’t currently dangling its dick around trying to “spread democracy.”
  • Soviet Russia wasn’t much of a democratic state. Hard to hold voters accountable for what their commanders did about a century ago.

I’ll skip the Israeli-Palestinian issue, but take a look at this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6500355.stm

No sir! You helped the BAD Muslims to pursue your own anti-Communist agenda. You unleashed a monster that gives a bad name to my religion and my people.

Again, sorry if any of my posts sounds too one-sided, but it just is a pain to relativize everytime. Russians are and were also evil; Every powerful country is bound to abuse its power for evil; The US isn’t specializing in the evil business…
Such things are mere common sense and I don’t see the need to reiterate them everytime.

232

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Today, China and Russia are helping Iran do the same, who knows maybe in 30 years time, Iran’ll be threatening China and Russia with nukes

Unlikely. China and Russia never overthrew an elected president to install a bloody dictator in Iran. They respect Iran’s sovereignty and the right of its people to self-detemination.

Always keep that in sight when adressing the issue.[/quote]

If you did all the hard work and along comes a ‘elected president’ who says: “Well, thanks for developing this oil thing for us. Now, get lost!!”, what would YOU do?

Parasites are always only too happy to let someone else do all the work and then take over.

Blame the Iranian people for their current situation. If they hadn’t voted to steal someone else’s work in the first place, none of this would have happened.

“But you’re EXPLOITERS!! You’re stealing from THE PEOPLE!!” What a crock of shit excuse for banditry.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Today, China and Russia are helping Iran do the same, who knows maybe in 30 years time, Iran’ll be threatening China and Russia with nukes

Unlikely. China and Russia never overthrew an elected president to install a bloody dictator in Iran. They respect Iran’s sovereignty and the right of its people to self-detemination.

Always keep that in sight when adressing the issue.

If you did all the hard work and along comes a ‘elected president’ who says: “Well, thanks for developing this oil thing for us. Now, get lost!!”, what would YOU do?

Parasites are always only too happy to let someone else do all the work and then take over.

Blame the Iranian people for their current situation. If they hadn’t voted to steal someone else’s work in the first place, none of this would have happened.

“But you’re EXPLOITERS!! You’re stealing from THE PEOPLE!!” What a crock of shit excuse for banditry.

[/quote]

This is true. “The people” have never had the right to oil/mineral rights etc. Those rights have always gone to those that invest heavily to actually get the stuff out of the ground.

It doesn’t matter if it is private land ownership or on a national scale.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If you did all the hard work and along comes a ‘elected president’ who says: “Well, thanks for developing this oil thing for us. Now, get lost!!”, what would YOU do? [/quote]

I’d respect their decision and stop dealing with them in the future.

Your speech is just like the one the Brits or French held back when they had empires. Too many wars started on that premise.

What do you do if your customer doesn’t pay you? Do you bust into his house and kill his family?

This is so sad I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Basically what you’re saying is that the coup was justified. Your positon is undefendable.

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It’s not our fault there’s muslim extremists, they would have existed with or without our help. But, hey, anything “Great Satan” does is evil.

Help Muslims in Afghanistan and Serbia = evil.

Help Israel = evil.

By the way, the people were backing in Afghanistan were the Northern Alliance. They were not allied with Bin Laden and the Pastuns from Pakistan who were later called the Taliban. If we aided Bin Laden in the war on the Communists, maybe we shouldn’t have, but who knew then he would stab his benefactors in the back?

Would it have been better to let the Ruskies have Afghanistan?

Sorry to drift off topic, but Iran was friggin occupied for years by the Russians and all Lixy does is bitch about an ousted president, because the US was involved.

Why are we held responcible for our deeds over 50 years ago when the Russians, (who are currently not spreading democracy,) are not for their deed under communism? After your African trip, why not spend some time in Chechnia, and see the nice dictator who was put in power by Putin. Their not spreading democracy around, but something far worse.

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[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If you did all the hard work and along comes a ‘elected president’ who says: “Well, thanks for developing this oil thing for us. Now, get lost!!”, what would YOU do?

I’d respect their decision and stop dealing with them in the future.

Your speech is just like the one the Brits or French held back when they had empires. Too many wars started on that premise.

What do you do if your customer doesn’t pay you? Do you bust into his house and kill his family?

Blame the Iranian people for their current situation. If they hadn’t voted to steal someone else’s work in the first place, none of this would have happened.

This is so sad I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Basically what you’re saying is that the coup was justified. Your positon is undefendable.[/quote]

They voted for a jackass who was going to confiscate investments w/o any compensation. The British usually bowed to the demands if the seizing bandits…er, government…compensated for the seizure.

The Shah was an evil prick but he WAS trying to modernize a very backward people. That’s why they finally revolted. “How dare you want shopping malls, central air, and a western style of living!! You have to be tied to a tree and whipped!!”

They got, in both the Shah and that nutjob Khoumeni, just exactly what they deserved.

237

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
It’s not our fault there’s muslim extremists, they would have existed with or without our help. [/quote]

Absolutely. But your actions are allowing their ranks to grow by the minute.

[quote]Help Muslims in Afghanistan and Serbia = evil.

Help Israel = evil. [/quote]

The radical Islamists you helped in Afghanistan are evil in the first place. The extremist Zionists are just as bad.

Of course! Whatever Soviets might have done there would be nothing compared to the Taliban atrocities. Plus, Soviets were pretty much dead by the early 90’s.

That’s the discourse of the Iranians. I didn’t make it up.

Why should they hold any grudge towards Russians? Are Russians calling them “axis of evil”? Are Russians threatening them and saying “all options are on the table”? Are Russians deploying their aircraft carriers in the region? Are Russians abducting Iranian diplomats in Iraq?

Gee, I wonder sometimes if you ever cared about the opinion of the common people of Iran. If you did, you’d ask them about their perspective and why they elected a hardline conservative like Ahmadinejad in office…

238

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
They voted for a jackass who was going to confiscate investments w/o any compensation. [/quote]

So he’s a jackass because he puts his own people’s interest above that of corporations? I understand better how someone like Bush is president in the US. By you definition, Bush is for from being a jackass.

Did Washington, Jefferson and the gang compensate the Brits and French for the investments they made to discover the new continent? Didn’t think so…

239

[quote]lixy wrote:

Gee, I wonder sometimes if you ever cared about the opinion of the common people of Iran. If you did, you’d ask them about their perspective and why they elected a hardline conservative like Ahmadinejad in office…[/quote]

Because they have no real choice in selecting candidates.

240

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Because they have no real choice in selecting candidates. [/quote]

The Iranian political spectrum comprises reformists such as Khatami who presided over the country before Ahmadinejad. While he has no real say in foreign affairs, he managed to convince Iranians that “confrontation” should be replaced by “conciliation”. Didn’t go far partly because of Bush’s inflammatory speeches. Khatami also ameliorated the status of women.

I can’t sum up the reasons Ahmadinejad’s was elected in one post. If I even try to do so, you’ll accuse me of painting a simplistic picture. One thing is for sure, the belligerent attitude of the US played a certain role in his coming to power.