[quote]lixy wrote:
Do you seriously believe Islam condones killing people or are you just trying to piss me off?[/quote]
Hi Lixy,
You may have noticed that I have a fairly reasoned and “liberal” opinion of things in comparison to the knee-jerk “kill them all” kind of attitude that is often expressed here. I would like to respond to your statement above about Islam and violence. I did my undergraduate degree in anthropology and started my graduate work in same before circumstances forced me to stop.
I look carefully at things from both and emic and etic perspectives and factor in my own biases when studying a subject. I must say that the association of Islam with violence hasn’t occurred without reason. First actions speaking louder than words, we have plenty of evidence of violence perpetrated in the name of Islam.
This occurs on a scale exponentially greater than the random violent acts of “wackos” in other religions burning abortion clinics and doing other heinous deeds. The mandate to act violently is a de facto part of Islam today, as practiced by millions of individuals. When something pisses of Moslems we get to see not a reasoned argument in a press conference but hundreds or thousands of people rioting and throwing and burning things: pure rage and hate and violence. That is how they express themselves a lynch mob mentality.
There are numerous quotes from the Koran floating around that attest to the violent nature of Mohammed and his religion. You may rightly point out that the Old Testament of the other Abrahamic religions isn’t exactly kid reading either and you would be right. The difference, I would argue, is in the praxis. Western countries seem to have a more laid back approach to religion and have detached it from other parts of their world view/culture.
Many, if not most of those claiming a religion in the West aren’t going around day to day dwelling on the INFIDEL UNBELIEVER and getting all of humanity under the yoke of there own belief system/law by ANY means necessary. There are some, even on this site who are real rabid BELIEVERS but their presence is leavened by those of us with a more open mindset. That doesn’t happen to nearly such an extent in the Islamic countries because the very nature of not being a fervent BELIEVER can get you punished.
Now, it seems as if much of Islam is sort of locked into the 7th century mindset of raiding and reprisals. There are scholars, some of whom are former Moslems, who will attest to this. Some (or even most) of those Westerners following Islam in Western countries are moderate, sure, because of their culturization.
But we have plenty of data on the practices of those Islamic immigrants to Western nations who refuse to adapt to the new culture and insist on practicing repugnant things like preaching hate and violence against non-BELIEVERS using women as basically slaves or otherwise harming them (slashing girls in Swedish discos or violently beating and raping them because they must be sluts for being out in public without covering and male escorts, forced marriage to very young girls (Mohammed did it, so why not?).
We in the Western cultures have as our greatest strength and weakness a great concern with TOLERANCE that contrasts greatly with non-westernized Islam. I can think through the perspective of others very well (emic perspective) as well as seeing the strangeness of a culture from an outsiders etic viewpoint and that is all well and good for writing a paper, leading a discussion or negotiation between cultures, but we all have to live together on the finite space of this planet and those who insist that we submit to their religion or die are clearly in the wrong.
If Islam wishes to gain the respect of the rest of the world (and not just take everything as spoils of conquest as Mohammed would) then they must mature, adapt and learn to behave in a less violent and unrestrained manner.
