IPhlop

Off Topic
61

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
The iPhone is the most revolutionary device of our lifetime, if you don’t recognize that, you’re just not quite understanding the implications.

Never before has a well designed and compact device come along that combines the 3 functions of the iPod, the cell phone, and an internet communications device in a way that actually works seamlessly. The user interface is out of this world and it’s only the beginning.

And at least Apple innovates. Bill Gates’ CES speech was a complete joke. In fact, the digital hub strategy that Apple outlined in the mid 90’s is what Bill Gates was talking up on Monday.

At least Apple and Steve Jobs make good on their promises and deliver innovative products.

Alan Kay has been quoted a lot recently by Jobs and others and this one stands out to me: “There’s a hierarchy of elements, each of which is harder than the other. There’s the hardware and that’s easy - that’s just engineering (I don’t take that wrong - LF). Then there’s software, and that’s harder. Then user interface, and that’s even harder.”

Apple is one of the few companies left that makes the hardware, the software, and the operating system. And that’s the true difference between Apple and everyone else.

Are you an Apple sales rep?[/quote]
No.

62

Good posts dhuge67.

63

[quote]EmperialChina wrote:
Good posts dhuge67.[/quote]

Thanks man.

I just feel like I know what I’m talking about here. I’m an IST student at Penn State University and while I’m a T-Nation guy (because I’m training to become an Officer in the Marine Corps), one of my big passions is technology and Apple history.

64

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
What about pixels per inch (ppi). The iPhone’s ppi is 160…[/quote]

They don’t have math in Apple fanboy school? 160 ppi means you have 160 pixels per inches. If the iPhone has a resolution of 480x320, then that works out at a screen size of 3 inches by 2 inches. Even worse than my initial “5 inches” wide screen joke.

Looking up the specs, the screen is given as 3.5 inches, which is the correct (approximate) diagonal measurement for a 3x2" screen.

The Nokia probably has a 2.25x1.75" screen, given it’s diagonal measurement of 2.9. That works out to about 355ppi. (800 pixels for 2.25") It might vary, but one thing is certain: with more resolution in a smaller screen, the Nokia’s ppi are at least double the iPhone’s.

To recap, the iPhone’s ppi is nothing special. Plenty of devices have similar or better. Hell, my 4 year old laptop has 133ppi.

65

[quote]pookie wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
What about pixels per inch (ppi). The iPhone’s ppi is 160…

They don’t have math in Apple fanboy school? 160 ppi means you have 160 pixels per inches. If the iPhone has a resolution of 480x320, then that works out at a screen size of 3 inches by 2 inches. Even worse than my initial “5 inches” wide screen joke.

Looking up the specs, the screen is given as 3.5 inches, which is the correct (approximate) diagonal measurement for a 3x2" screen.

The Nokia probably has a 2.25x1.75" screen, given it’s diagonal measurement of 2.9. That works out to about 355ppi. (800 pixels for 2.25") It might vary, but one thing is certain: with more resolution in a smaller screen, the Nokia’s ppi are at least double the iPhone’s.

To recap, the iPhone’s ppi is nothing special. Plenty of devices have similar or better. Hell, my 4 year old laptop has 133ppi.

[/quote]
I think if you’ve looked at the video of the iPhone introduction or have read what people said about after a hands-on look, you’d realize that the iPhone’s display is quite nice. It more than handles video…lol…the graphics in the embedded OS and applications look stunning.

66

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
I think if you’ve looked at the video of the iPhone introduction or have read what people said about after a hands-on look, you’d realize that the iPhone’s display is quite nice. It more than handles video…lol…the graphics in the embedded OS and applications look stunning.[/quote]

So? A lot of gadgets have nice screens. You can do really cute animations, but watching a movie on a 3 inch screen seems pointless to me.

And no matter how much fanboy spit you waste trying to convince people that the screen is better than a quad-HDTV OLED display, it remains that it can show more than 480x320 at 160ppi, which is exceedingly common technology.

IF the OS X is not a trimmed-down version AND it lets me install a VPN client or a SSH terminal, then it starts being interesting. If not, it does nothing I need that my Blackberry doesn’t already do, for cheaper, except look nice.

As far as I’ve seen, Apple won’t let you run arbitrary code on it, only Apple approved stuff. Scratch the “portable computer” from the list of usages.

Also, in my personal experience, touch screens are crappy input devices. The lack of tactile feedback makes it harder to type, not easier. I know Apple claims their “we guess what you mean” logic will solve the problem, but I have yet to see that feature work well if you’re writing something else than english (like code, script, SQL or shell commands…) Give me a little Bluetooth keyboard, like a BB has - make it optional if you want.

I also hope their new screen resists better to scratches than video iPods do, because those phones are going to look like crap after a few months.

Of course, for someone who’s needs are “see cute icons flying around” the iPhone is killer.

67

More crack for the tech-junkies. Does anyone out there REALLY need to watch movies on their phone? How addicted to TV do you have to be lay down $600-700 for a 5 inch screen? NOBODY with think you are any cooler or smarter because you have one of these.

I bet my neighbor gets one immediately. He has every sort of new electronic gadget available (PSP, iPod (for his 9 year old daughter), Xbox 360, Wii, regular Xbox, 42" plasma widescreen dedicated to Xbox 360 plus another 50+" widescreen for the living room…) but he has no medical insurance or life insurance. He has a wife and two kids and no insurance, but owns just about everything electronic under the sun amounting to several thousand dollars.

This ipod phone is interesting technology, but it’s just superficial, conspicuous consumption, bling.

68

A once great man named Ogre once said “NERDS!”

This coming from the guy who still reads comic books. I’m such a nerd.

And by the way, I can call people with my phone AND it has an alarm to wake me up for work. Now that is amazing.

69

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
The iPhone is the most revolutionary device of our lifetime, if you don’t recognize that, you’re just not quite understanding the implications.

Never before has a well designed and compact device come along that combines the 3 functions of the iPod, the cell phone, and an internet communications device in a way that actually works seamlessly. The user interface is out of this world and it’s only the beginning.

And at least Apple innovates. Bill Gates’ CES speech was a complete joke. In fact, the digital hub strategy that Apple outlined in the mid 90’s is what Bill Gates was talking up on Monday.

At least Apple and Steve Jobs make good on their promises and deliver innovative products.

Alan Kay has been quoted a lot recently by Jobs and others and this one stands out to me: “There’s a hierarchy of elements, each of which is harder than the other. There’s the hardware and that’s easy - that’s just engineering (I don’t take that wrong - LF). Then there’s software, and that’s harder. Then user interface, and that’s even harder.”

Apple is one of the few companies left that makes the hardware, the software, and the operating system. And that’s the true difference between Apple and everyone else.

Are you an Apple sales rep?
No.
[/quote]

No he’s just a viral marketer :slight_smile:

70

[quote]PGJ wrote:
More crack for the tech-junkies. Does anyone out there REALLY need to watch movies on their phone? How addicted to TV do you have to be lay down $600-700 for a 5 inch screen? NOBODY with think you are any cooler or smarter because you have one of these.

I bet my neighbor gets one immediately. He has every sort of new electronic gadget available (PSP, iPod (for his 9 year old daughter), Xbox 360, Wii, regular Xbox, 42" plasma widescreen dedicated to Xbox 360 plus another 50+" widescreen for the living room…) but he has no medical insurance or life insurance. He has a wife and two kids and no insurance, but owns just about everything electronic under the sun amounting to several thousand dollars.

This ipod phone is interesting technology, but it’s just superficial, conspicuous consumption, bling. [/quote]

I agree with that. If I really want to watch movies while on the move, I would still prefer my PSP for that. A screen any smaller is ridiculous to actually sit and attempt to enjoy a movie on. Considering it also has internet capability, I just don’t see the point in the money this thing will cost. You can’t even play video games on it…at least any worth buying.

71

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Sturat wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
Sturat wrote:
Personally I’ll stick with my IPAQ, does everything that the IPhone does and they’re cheaper right now.

Personally I found that I needed the PDA functions for my job and the phone being integrated was a bonus. I’ve had the thing a year now and I’ll be buying another when this one dies, not that it’s showing any signs of that.

STU
Your iPaq is not nearly as functional and does not have a comparable user interface.

Not nearly as functional?

The Wifi and Bluetooth I have aren’t as functional? The fully capable internet browser? The integrated media player? True, smaller storage I guess I have to make due with my 2gig memory cards.

The interface may not be as funky but my touchscreen works just fine and after a year of use is nice and pristine due to the $5 screen protector that’s on it. . .

STU

A “funky” interface or do you mean, functional? The iPhone’s software is above and beyond the iPaq. You don’t have an integrated media player like the iPod-software that’s built into the iPhone. Not even close. And scrolling through a music library or photos? It’d be laughable on the iPaq.
[/quote]

Jeeze, yeah the necessity of actually pushing a physical button to scroll through my music library or photos. . . that sure is laughable. . .wow, how awful…

72

[quote]PGJ wrote:
More crack for the tech-junkies. Does anyone out there REALLY need to watch movies on their phone? How addicted to TV do you have to be lay down $600-700 for a 5 inch screen? NOBODY with think you are any cooler or smarter because you have one of these.

I bet my neighbor gets one immediately. He has every sort of new electronic gadget available (PSP, iPod (for his 9 year old daughter), Xbox 360, Wii, regular Xbox, 42" plasma widescreen dedicated to Xbox 360 plus another 50+" widescreen for the living room…) but he has no medical insurance or life insurance. He has a wife and two kids and no insurance, but owns just about everything electronic under the sun amounting to several thousand dollars.

This ipod phone is interesting technology, but it’s just superficial, conspicuous consumption, bling. [/quote]

I think you’re jumping the gun too, since this device is not even finalized yet. This is just the beginning and Apple has a lot of things left to fix, and work out with it, before it ships. There probably will be bluetooth keyboard options, etc…

Heck, even MacWorld.com posted an article today, about the 10 things they want to see improved upon with the iPhone. It’s not perfect, I never said it was, but it sure is pretty amazing and YOU KNOW it has massive potential.

The same was true with the original iPod. Look at the original iPod and what it was when it first shipped, and look at the ones that succeeded it. There’s an awful lot of headroom.

From MacWorld.com:

"Ten iPhone suggestions
By Rob Griffiths

Although I have yet to even hold an iPhone (you can look but you can?t touch), and the product isn?t due out for six months, that hasn?t stopped me from thinking about how Apple can make the product even better when iPhone 2.0 is shipped?whenever that may be. Keep in mind that there are many things we don?t officially know about this product, so (hopefully!) some of these issues will be non-issues when the 1.0 version is released.

Here then, are the top 10 things I feel Apple must address with future iterations of the iPhone, ranked in relative order of importance, from least to most.

  1. Provide a two-ear Bluetooth solution: While the Bluetooth earpiece that Steve showed onscreen looked great for phone use, it leaves the user doing the headset switcheroo whenever they want to listen to the iPod portion of their iPhone. Great, we?ve got a three-way integrated device, but we have to constantly swap two different headsets?

  2. Allow iTunes Store purchases via Wi-Fi: The iPhone has 802.11 support, so it can connect to wireless networks. But as far as we know, you won?t be able to use the iPhone to connect to the iTunes Store and download music, movies, and podcasts. Sure, it might not work when you?re in EDGE mode on Cingular?s network (speeds aren?t fast enough), but if you?re on an 802.11 network using a high-speed connection, why not give the iPhone direct access to the iTunes Store?

  3. Expand Bluetooth support: When Steve mentioned the iPhone?s built-in Bluetooth 2.0 support, the only device he discussed using with the iPhone was a wireless headset. And the wireless page for the iPhone only talks about the same thing: ?Bluetooth 2.0 with EDR, which links to Apple?s new, remarkably compact Bluetooth headset.? However, Bluetooth is useful for linking to much more than just headsets. How about letting us use a Bluetooth keyboard, for when we?re sitting down somewhere with a lot of e-mail to handle? Or how about syncing with the Mac via Bluetooth? If we?re sitting in a public caf? somewhere, will we really have to haul out the docking station just to sync some new contacts back to your Mac? And what about using the iPhone as a wireless modem for your laptop, in those places where Wi-Fi isn?t available?

  4. Enhance battery life: While five hours of talk time is pretty good, Steve made no mention of the iPhone?s standby battery life?that is, how often does the device need to be recharged in order to be usable? Palm Treos and Sony-Ericsson smart phones, for instance, can be in standby mode for more than 300 hours before the battery drains. As Steve didn?t mention standby battery life in his keynote, the number must not be that impressive. But for those who travel regularly and may not always have a charger available, standby battery time is an important factor. (An open question is what sort of battery life you?d get if you were just using the e-mail and smart phone features of the iPhone?that is, what?s the battery life if you?re just surfing the Web, reading e-mail, and opening the occasional widget?)

  5. Allow transfer of Mac data files: In its current form, you won?t be able to use the iPhone to move documents from one Mac to another?well, unless you send a file as an attachment to your Yahoo push e-mail account. If I?m going to carry this device around with me everywhere, let me use it to transfer files, too. If I have to get a series of files (spreadsheets, Word documents, whatever) onto a friend?s computer, it?d be great to just use the iPhone as the go-between.

  6. Enable some OS X applications: We heard many times how the iPhone runs a version of OS X. Why then isn?t iChat running on the phone? Sure, Apple has made SMS look like iChat, but they could add a lot more power by just letting the iPhone run the real program. My Palm Treo, for instance, has a third-party AIM/iChat client that works quite well. In addition to iChat, what about TextEdit? Or Dictionary? Or Stickies? There are any number of OS X programs that, with minor modifications, would work quite well on the iPhone.

  7. More storage: For an iPod, 4GB or 8GB of storage would be adequate. For a video iPod, however, those numbers are low?the lowest-capacity full iPod available today holds 30GB. Add in the fact that this device is also a phone and e-mail device, and the 4GB/8GB capacity becomes very limiting. At 1GB per movie from the iTunes Store, a 4GB iPhone is probably only good for two movies, assuming you want to have room for music, contacts, e-mail messages, and other assorted data. Flash technology is evolving quickly, but for this device to be really useful, I?d like to see at least 16GB as a starting point.

  8. More authorized service providers: I understand the need to go with Cingular as an exclusive up front?Apple was demanding a lot from their provider partner, and Cingular has clearly spent a bunch of money upgrading its network to handle the iPhone?s features?in particular, the random access voice-mail. But for the iPhone to really be successful, it needs to be available on more carriers (and with different data standards to support more of the world, i.e. 3G).

  9. Allow third-party developers to create widgets: Part of the reason for the popularity of Dashboard is the huge collection of third-party widgets?2,546 of them on Apple?s site as of this morning. And yet, when the iPhone ships, it seems it will include only three widgets?Weather, Google Maps, and Stocks. This wouldn?t be so bad if the iPhone were open for third-party widget development. But it seems that, at least as of today, it?s not. The only widget provider will be Apple, so in the short term, we?ll have to make do with what they give us. In the long term, the iPhone will be much more successful if Apple allows developers to create amazing iPhone widgets that we can all use.

  10. Allow third-party developers to create applications: If the iPhone is truly going to be the ultimate integration device, it needs to have third-party applications available. Why? Because in its current form, the iPhone will be somewhat limited in its capabilities. And yes, this is closely related to the prior bullet, but it?s important enough to merit its own discussion.

On my Treo, for example, I have a program that lets me login remotely to my Mac. I have another one that actually displays my Mac?s screen on the Treo (using VNC), allowing me to work remotely. Yes, it?s tiny?but the iPhone has a much larger screen, and the ability to rotate that screen. A VNC app on the iPhone will be quite usable?especially if it supported the iPhone?s ability to display a reduced-size page, ? la the Web browser. See the full Mac screen, double-tap to zoom in, etc.

Apple itself may very well create the above two applications, as they?re tied in to core functionality. However, there?s an entire world of third-party software just waiting to be created for the iPhone. If Apple lets it happen, it will help strengthen the platform?by giving third parties access to the platform, Apple can create a truly smart phone that will appeal to a much wider audience."

73

[quote]PGJ wrote:
More crack for the tech-junkies. Does anyone out there REALLY need to watch movies on their phone? How addicted to TV do you have to be lay down $600-700 for a 5 inch screen? NOBODY with think you are any cooler or smarter because you have one of these.

I bet my neighbor gets one immediately. He has every sort of new electronic gadget available (PSP, iPod (for his 9 year old daughter), Xbox 360, Wii, regular Xbox, 42" plasma widescreen dedicated to Xbox 360 plus another 50+" widescreen for the living room…) but he has no medical insurance or life insurance. He has a wife and two kids and no insurance, but owns just about everything electronic under the sun amounting to several thousand dollars.

This ipod phone is interesting technology, but it’s just superficial, conspicuous consumption, bling. [/quote]

Word.

74

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Heck, even MacWorld.com posted an article today, about the 10 things they want to see improved upon with the iPhone. It’s not perfect, I never said it was, but it sure is pretty amazing and YOU KNOW it has massive potential. [/quote]

Oh, now that MacWorld has been a little critical of it, you agree?

You keep coming back the iPod, but what if the iPhone repeats the success of the iMac instead?

Good idea. Who listen to music in mono anyway?

Personally don’t care.

Yes. Give me that keyboard. You want this thing to replace my computer while on the go? Give. Me. My. Keyboard.

True of any battery operated device.

A cheap USB stick can do it. A 600$ phone should be able to.

Although, unless the friend is a luddite and doesn’t have internet access, there are myriads other ways to share files with him. Put them on your personal web server and download them from his place.

And WTF are “Mac data files?” Let the phone transfer file regardless of what their origin or format. Just like a USB stick.

My personal feeling is that the iPhone is running a severely cut down version of OS X which make this impossible.

Maybe something similar in spirit to Windows CE, which is mostly Windows, but with 80% of the fat trimmed of. Unfortunately, most applications end up using part of that fat somewhere.

I’ve seen a few places mention that it’s running a full-blown OS X, but I’d bet good money against that being true.

True of any device. The Xbox 360 could use a lot more than 20GB, especially now that it’s becoming an IPTV device; the PS3 could use more than 60GB. Most music players fill up quickly and backup tapes are always full. Fact of life.

Goes without saying.

2 and 1 are basically the same request: Open up the phone to developers so that they may create “killer apps” for it. Those apps will sell phones and help Apple get more market share.

75

[quote]pookie wrote:

Oh, now that MacWorld has been a little critical of it, you agree?[/quote]
No, I was simply pointing out that an Apple-biased publication is critical of some things about it, as well.

The iMac was and is the number one selling AIO computer of all time.

You’re right, this needs to happen.

[quote]
6. Allow transfer of Mac data files:

A cheap USB stick can do it. A 600$ phone should be able to.[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote]
4. More storage:

True of any device. The Xbox 360 could use a lot more than 20GB, especially now that it’s becoming an IPTV device; the PS3 could use more than 60GB. Most music players fill up quickly and backup tapes are always full. Fact of life.[/quote]
Agreed. I’d want it to be at least 16 GB. And I’ll wait to buy one until the internal HD goes up. More than likely, I’ll end up just getting the iPod-only version of this device and stick to my current phone for a while.

[quote]
3. More authorized service providers:

Goes without saying.[/quote]
Agreed, although I am with Cingular currently so it doesn’t matter much to me.

I agree to an extent, but Apple wants to be cautious here and for good reason: the platform could get seriously fucked up. The iPod is an example of where Apple has really tightly controlled the software and hardware and nobody’s complaining. Time will tell…

76

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
The iMac was and is the number one selling AIO computer of all time. [/quote]

Is that how they spin it to make it look good? Let me guess, the “All In One category” excludes every Wintel PC and notebook ever made?

The PS3 is the best selling BluRay gaming console of all time!

Seriously fucked up how? By installing applications you need to get your work done? By being able to do more with it? Only an Apple fanboy sees Apple dictating how they can use the hardware they paid for as “a good thing.”

As for the iPod, it’s easy enough to install Linux on it and do whatever you want with it. It’s just not that versatile of a device, outside of being a good music player. The screen and input are severely limited, and there’s no wireless connectivity…

77

everyone knows God made the iphone.

seriously, theres no justifying $600 for a phone, its like my friend that bought a $2500 watch, what a dumbass.

78

[quote]pookie wrote:

You keep coming back the iPod, but what if the iPhone repeats the success of the iMac instead?
[/quote]

I take it you’re referring to the product that brought Apple back into the mainstream consciousness and started the company on the road to recovery in the late 90’s? I don’t think Apple would have a problem with a product that merely increases mindshare while exceeding sales expectations. They don’t need outright dominance of the market.

79

[quote]Freaky Styley wrote:
I take it you’re referring to the product that brought Apple back into the mainstream consciousness and started the company on the road to recovery in the late 90’s? I don’t think Apple would have a problem with a product that merely increases mindshare while exceeding sales expectations. They don’t need outright dominance of the market.[/quote]

Exactly. I just find it both funny and annoying that every time Apple announces something new, all the fanboy predict they will repeat the success of the iPod. I’m sure they will sell plenty of iPhones; I’m just not convinced that it’ll be as ubiquitous as fanboys predict.

80

It’s got an internal battery so when the phone freezes like every phone does how do you remove the battery. Ugh it’s already starting, “when’s the iphone coming out”