Intro to Christianity for Teens

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki: moral or immoral?
[/quote]

Immoral. It created victims out of innocents.

However we dont’ live in a perfect world, and the greater good for humanity as a whole might, at times, means some have to suffer.

Dan Carlin goes into this concept in the first episode of Hardcore History about Gengis. Basically his idea is that the whole sale slaughter and destruction of Asia at his hands actually advanced mankind in ways that measured much more beneficial than his terror hurt it. (I’m butchering here but hopefully getting the idea across.) He also wondered if Hitler’s conquest of Europe would be viewed in similar ways in 200+ years…

Interesting thoughts.

122

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Regarding the Sagan quote: why does our society “need” anything of the sort?[/quote]

Because scientific literacy means you don’t fall for bullshit like racism, sexism, homophobia, religion, unscientific shit that drives war and hatred. [/quote]

lmfao…

You’ve completely lost your marbles.

Racism is born of natural instincts brought about though evolution. The fear/apprehension towards/views of superior to of “others” kept populations alive. The same evolution that established gender roles and made survival more likely, you refer to this as sexism.

Homosexuality does not further the species, therefore it is a statistical anomaly, flies in the face of species survival instincts and evolutionary natural selection, and basically just “is”. Which quickly morphs into homophobia after a couple generations of people struggling to survive figured out that two people of the same sex don’t produce more hunters or gatherers.
[/quote]

You just sumamrised the view of racial evolutionists, like social darwinists they try and shape evolutionary fact to fit their ideology. Darwin explain why both social darwinism and evolutionary racism are unscientific nonsense.

This is an example of why scientific literacy is so important.

Racism started well after we already developed morality and could alter our environment and evolution was no longer a factor in these regards. Your premise is very very silly. We were all dark sinned once, where would the evolutionary pressure for racism come from? Think about is for a second. This shouldn’t be hard to grasp.

124

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
We were all dark sinned once, where would the evolutionary pressure for racism come from? Think about is for a second. This shouldn’t be hard to grasp.[/quote]

You’re fucking retarded. I’m done entertaining your trolling.

I try, really hard to stay away from ad hom’s but you’ve earn it. Well done.

125

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Racism started…[/quote]

Racism and bigotry is about a moral as it gets if you go by evolution…

Infant studies have shown we have an inherent tendency to not only distrust those different from us, but to also want to punish them for it.

127

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
I believe scientists might take some issue [/quote]

I believe so much of your world view is made up of conjecture and assumptions based on what other people had done or said, that what you claim to believe is a worthless measure, meaningless to any sort of relevant humanity.

Also, through my wife, I’m now related to an entire extended family that counts among them quite a few scientists. One of whom works for the government and is arguably one of the smartest people in the country if not the world. Each and every single one of these people are devout Christians to the point of where they didn’t (until kid six came along and the weight of more kids was heavier than sin) use birth control.

So what you believe others would take exception to means jack and shit. [/quote]

No scientist believes a man lived 600 years, that a woman was made from a rib. I also knoew very smart people who identify as christians but guess what, they don’t believe anything in their books, they are not christians, they merely hold up a cultural tradition.

Do you know who else identifies as christian? Richard Dawkins. I guess christianity is compatible with christendom after all :smiley: Next you will be saying Einstein was religious. 100% of all scientists who claim any sort of spirituality do it under his contextual lens, some form of intelligence intelligence, a universal intelligence etc.

Also name the guy or it is suspect to say the least. Funny how this anecdote just appeared when you were arguing with an atheist and claim to know some super well known scientist who is pretty much the only christian scientist who actually believes in anything in the bible.
[/quote]

First off, I would take Beans at his word if I were you.

He has absolutely no reason to fabricate anything to score points on the Internet against a 22-year-old atheist.

Second, please cite the source in which Richard Dawkins identifies himself as Christian. This I gotta see.[/quote]

I know you are friends with some of these guys but lets be real here, no scientist believes anyone ever lived to be 600 years old. Maybe he identifies as christian but pretending there are prominent scientists who believe in a literal interpretation of the bible is quite questionable.

Richard Dawkins: 'I am a secular Christian'

He has quite a few videos where he identifies himself as christian.

128

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Uh oh, poor Doogie, look what he dun started.

Here we go again, this time with a brand new student (with the implicit support of the resident pantheist) in dire need of tutoring.[/quote]

Dude, my first post on this thread was to recommend an graphic novel version of the Bible that I loved as a teenager, because it absolutely kicks ass.

My second post was to rebuke Yamato for not being as circumspect as he should, and that this kind of thing will get him hated real quick in rural America.

I then followed by lobbing back a reductio ad absurdum to Pat, who had served up the first one, then my next post was in response to your question about Sagan’s quote.

How do you interpret this as my “implicit support” for Yamato’s position?

I think it’s awesome that Doogie wants his kid to have basic understanding of the religion that has influenced so much of the culture of not only this country, but all of Western Civilization. Yeah, it’d be cool if the kid also learned about other religions later on down the line, but there’s time for that, and not the topic of this thread.

129

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Racism started…[/quote]

Racism and bigotry is about a moral as it gets if you go by evolution…

Infant studies have shown we have an inherent tendency to not only distrust those different from us, but to also want to punish them for it.
[/quote]

Yes and that isn’t evolutionary adaption it is societal phenomena. People often seem to be unable to understand the difference. Which is very convenient for them at times.

130

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
I believe scientists might take some issue [/quote]

I believe so much of your world view is made up of conjecture and assumptions based on what other people had done or said, that what you claim to believe is a worthless measure, meaningless to any sort of relevant humanity.

Also, through my wife, I’m now related to an entire extended family that counts among them quite a few scientists. One of whom works for the government and is arguably one of the smartest people in the country if not the world. Each and every single one of these people are devout Christians to the point of where they didn’t (until kid six came along and the weight of more kids was heavier than sin) use birth control.

So what you believe others would take exception to means jack and shit. [/quote]

No scientist believes a man lived 600 years, that a woman was made from a rib. I also knoew very smart people who identify as christians but guess what, they don’t believe anything in their books, they are not christians, they merely hold up a cultural tradition.

Do you know who else identifies as christian? Richard Dawkins. I guess christianity is compatible with christendom after all :smiley: Next you will be saying Einstein was religious. 100% of all scientists who claim any sort of spirituality do it under his contextual lens, some form of intelligence intelligence, a universal intelligence etc.

Also name the guy or it is suspect to say the least. Funny how this anecdote just appeared when you were arguing with an atheist and claim to know some super well known scientist who is pretty much the only christian scientist who actually believes in anything in the bible.
[/quote]

First off, I would take Beans at his word if I were you.

He has absolutely no reason to fabricate anything to score points on the Internet against a 22-year-old atheist.

Second, please cite the source in which Richard Dawkins identifies himself as Christian. This I gotta see.[/quote]

I know you are friends with some of these guys but lets be real here, no scientist believes anyone ever lived to be 600 years old. Maybe he identifies as christian but pretending there are prominent scientists who believe in a literal interpretation of the bible is quite questionable.

Richard Dawkins: 'I am a secular Christian'

He has quite a few videos where he identifies himself as christian.[/quote]

Translation: I suffer massively from cognitive dissonance. Therefore anything that isn’t confirmation bias is a lie.

133

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Yes and that isn’t evolutionary adaption it is societal phenomena. [/quote]

Have you ever stopped to consider the reason why it is a constant “societal phenomenon?” Almost universally so? Perhaps an underlying inherent reason?

I realize you want to find our angels in our genes, and our demons in society, but maybe your demons exist because of our genes. And our genes were never the angels you had hoped they were.

Have you ever stopped to wonder at why religious faith is one of the most widespread shared experiences of the human condition? Far more shared than being a “homosexual,” or the need to have your male genitals scientifically mutilated before throwing on a dress and pumping oneself full of scientific opposite sex hormones. But obviously it’s the latter predispositions which must be inherent (and therefore off limits, or “bigotry!”), but not the universal (relatively speaking) experience of religious faiths, beliefs, and practices.

Fella, you don’t even believe in the moral high ground (since you invented it, a fairly tale) you’re trying to cast stones from.

135

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I would teach my son that we are part of the animal kingdom and we have evolved to such heights we were able to use an invented moral code…[/quote]

So you’ll tell your son he would be comitting an evil, then telling telling him nah, just kidding, the evil of the act doesn’t actually exist. “I was just bsing.”

“It’s wrong.”

“Really, pa?”

“Nah, boy. I’m just joshing with ya.”

And you’re worried about what Christians teach their kids?!

[/quote]

Just because i understand where morals came from does not mean I don’t support them. I don’t want my mum to get raped, criminalising rape which happens almost universally amongst the species massively decreases her chances of being raped. See how evolutionary morality works? I don’t want to be killed or have my loved ones killed, criminalising murder which all animals do massively reduces my chances of being killed and my families.

136

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Just because i understand where morals came from does not mean I don’t support them. I don’t want my mum to get raped, criminalising ape which happens almost universally amongst the species massively decreases her chances of being raped. See how evolutionary morality works? I don’t want to be killed or have my loved ones killed, criminalising murder which all animals do massively reduces my chances of being killed and my families.

[/quote]

Where they come from? You just said they’re invented. They’re a fairy tale. You support a reality you don’t actually believe exists.

137

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

I would teach my son that we are part of the animal kingdom and we have evolved to such heights we were able to use an invented moral code…[/quote]

So you’ll tell your son he would be comitting an evil, then telling telling him nah, just kidding, the evil of the act doesn’t actually exist. “I was just bsing.”

“It’s wrong.”

“Really, pa?”

“Nah, boy. I’m just joshing with ya.”

And you’re worried about what Christians teach their kids?!

[/quote]

Just because i understand where morals came from does not mean I don’t support them. I don’t want my mum to get raped, criminalising rape which happens almost universally amongst the species massively decreases her chances of being raped. See how evolutionary morality works? I don’t want to be killed or have my loved ones killed, criminalising murder which all animals do massively reduces my chances of being killed and my families.

[/quote]

All animals criminalize murder? What?

140

You keep saying evolution. Evolution is the biggest murderer of them all, so to speak. It’s an editing system, wiping out the weak and ill-suited.