International Jihadis and the West's Response

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You plan on going to Iraq?
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
We went to war with Iraq, achieved the goal and withdrew. Now you want America to secure arms and enter into another war with Iraq for what? We have more murders per day in America then the number of Americans they’ve killed in the last 2 years. We’ve had more “domestic” aka dumb psycho motherfucka terrorist last year than ISIS killings in IRAQ. Pretty much unless you plan on going to Iraq and doing a peace march in front of ISIS headquarters I don’t see them killing you. Soooooooooooooooo why should somebody come out and demand war against ISIS?

You’re upset that Obama doesn’t state Islam as the evil lord and go to war against a religon, and yet you haven’t stated one reason why he should other than they don’t like us. They’re large groups of people from North Koreans to Mexicans that “Hate” America, should we just say we’re going to war with everybody that hates us?

Wait you think only the countries that are on CNN terrorize people internationally. That explains everything.

I’d say The Second World War?

[quote]

What are you hoping to accomplish?[/quote]

A discussion about the thread topic maybe?[/quote]

Why you think ISIS is so much more powerful than any other terror group out there is pretty relevant. If the media took the time to announce some other gangs, terror groups, coups I’m sure ISIS would die down and the others would grow. So why should Obama continue to help this particular terror group gain in popularity?

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]msw1959 wrote:
It is interesting that ISIS calls itself Muslims, other Muslims call ISIS Muslims, the victims of ISIS calls them Muslims, other nations leaders call ISIS Muslims, yet only 0bama refuses to call ISIS Muslims. Why?[/quote]

The only thing that makes sense is, he is worried that people will start targeting muslims in the U.S. for payback.[/quote]

Afaik, that didn’t happen after 9/11, and while both are horrible and perpetrated by like-minded individuals, they’re also of different magnitudes, so I’m not buying that excuse.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]msw1959 wrote:
It is interesting that ISIS calls itself Muslims, other Muslims call ISIS Muslims, the victims of ISIS calls them Muslims, other nations leaders call ISIS Muslims, yet only 0bama refuses to call ISIS Muslims. Why?[/quote]

The only thing that makes sense is, he is worried that people will start targeting muslims in the U.S. for payback.[/quote]

Actually, I see what you mean, and that may be his thinking or motive, but I still think that it’s a bullshit concern. Honestly, I think deep down he’s a sympathizer. Like Giuliani said, look at who he was raised by and surrounded, communists, Marxists, and the "“oppressed”. Who does he keep showing favoritism towards?
It’s practically in his DNA. Epigenetic Marxism?? Wonder if there’s any papers on that, lol.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Afaik, that didn’t happen after 9/11, and while both are horrible and perpetrated by like-minded individuals, they’re also of different magnitudes, so I’m not buying that excuse.[/quote]

It most certainly did.

Just wasn’t reported to national news all that much.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Afaik, that didn’t happen after 9/11, and while both are horrible and perpetrated by like-minded individuals, they’re also of different magnitudes, so I’m not buying that excuse.[/quote]

It most certainly did.

Just wasn’t reported to national news all that much.[/quote]

Links?

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Links?[/quote]

http://www.themediaoasis.com/hatevictims.html

What I can find immediately. Don’t have much time to dig deeper, but I would imagine the FBI thing that The Atlantic piece notes is probably the best look to dig into.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

The problem is simply that the administration is completely missing the point of who we are fighting and why they are fighting us. They are making shit up that has nothing to do with their motivations and trying to sell it, fortunately people aren’t buying it. [/quote]

I think it’s because the administration is worried that pointing out the legitimate religious basis of ISIS and its beliefs in Islam would cause violence against Muslims in the U.S.
[/quote]

The bigotry here is so off the charts that I’m actually surprised someone pointed out the obvious.

You reactionary nutjobs really can’t see that or are just playing dumb?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Can you imagine during the last war if we weren’t allowed to name the perpetrators as Nazis and whenever they attacked us we acted as apologists for Nazism? [/quote]

As magick pointed out, it ain’t like the government back then was worried about people atacking the nazi community in America.

FDR did have them Japanese-American moved to internment camps, is that what you’re suggesting WE (hey if you can play American I’ll play one too) do those towel heads in America?

I generally try to bring at least a little balance to discussion about Obama, but this time he’s gone off his fucking rocker:

[quote]
These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it’s important for my fellow Americans to understand that. The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That’s not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don’t represent peace. They represent evil and war. When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that’s made brothers and sisters out of every race – out of every race.[/quote]

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Pat, regarding your statement

They know, but the HMIC (head-Marxist-in-charge!) refuses to acknowledge. Kind of semantical, but they are fully aware of who the fight is against, but continue to refuse to acknowledge it.
Don’t want to do a drone strike and kill HMICs Muslim Brotherhood brother or other family members
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/16606-muslim-brotherhood-linked-to-malik-obama-and-obama-admin[/quote]

Wow! That’s quite the article. The implications and the sinews of this relationship could explain a lot. Quite a lot. This could very well explain the soft speak obama has against terror and his ties to the ME and muslim leadership.
It further convinces me that a guy like this, with the complicated and often mysterious past should not be leading this country.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[/quote]

That was quite the article.[/quote]

Combined it with the one Matty pasted and it paints quite a picture.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Pat, regarding your statement

They know, but the HMIC (head-Marxist-in-charge!) refuses to acknowledge. Kind of semantical, but they are fully aware of who the fight is against, but continue to refuse to acknowledge it.
Don’t want to do a drone strike and kill HMICs Muslim Brotherhood brother or other family members
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/16606-muslim-brotherhood-linked-to-malik-obama-and-obama-admin[/quote]

Wow! That’s quite the article. The implications and the sinews of this relationship could explain a lot. Quite a lot. This could very well explain the soft speak obama has against terror and his ties to the ME and muslim leadership.
It further convinces me that a guy like this, with the complicated and often mysterious past should not be leading this country. [/quote]

Yeah, it doesn’t bode well, but it isn’t all that surprising considering the media blackout on his university records, the great pastor Wright, relationship with terrorist and communist Bill Ayers, Princeton not releasing his wife’s shitty thesis until after the election (birds of a feather flock together alright!), Benghazi, IRS, Fast and Furious, VA scandal, Fort Hood workplace violence. I know some of these might not be directly related to him, but they deserve more attention than they’ve received.

Don’t know if this is an actual issue or just right-wing whining, but it’s about Michelle’s mother living in the WH

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]msw1959 wrote:
It is interesting that ISIS calls itself Muslims, other Muslims call ISIS Muslims, the victims of ISIS calls them Muslims, other nations leaders call ISIS Muslims, yet only 0bama refuses to call ISIS Muslims. Why?[/quote]

The only thing that makes sense is, he is worried that people will start targeting muslims in the U.S. for payback.[/quote]

Well it’s bullshit. The thing is, as long as a powerful leader such as the President of the United States is making these bold proclamations that ISIS isn’t Islamic, the natural psychological reaction is one of vindication and separation for Muslims in general. They are being let off the hook and should they be? Perhaps. After all it’s not some Muslim in Albuquerque’s fault that these Muslims are evil and nasty and mean, but it also gives them little inspiration to fix Islam’s PR problem and it’s got one, and a big one.
If there were 1% of Christians who believed in violence, murder and evil and were carrying on, the other 99% would go nuts on them. They would decry, blast, condemn and do everything possible to not only separate themselves from the 1%, but to go on a massive campaign to show that they are not Christian. And you can remove Christian and plug in any other sort of belief demographic including Atheists, who would do much the same. Most people who hold share a belief go out of their way to show they belief is the best by doing good shit, proving they are good. Even many Atheists go out of their way to prove they can be “good” without God. In other words, every other belief system goes out their way to show that their belief is the best belief by displaying the best behavior people in their demographic have to offer. Everybody except muslims, that is.

Yes, there are moderate muslims. Yes, there are good muslims. Yes, there are some, but far to few who do condemn such things. But in a demographic that large the outcry is so faint, it’s barely audible.

Now I am in no position to judge their actual religion. I don’t know it, I don’t pretend to know it and have no interest in knowing it. I am interested in how they behave and how they treat others because right now, it looks really bad. I am not talking about their religion, I am talking about them.

Sam Harris stated on Bill Maher that Islam is the ‘mother load of bad ideas’ and he got bull whipped for saying it. This guy, as well as Maher hates all religion, but he has reason to single out Muslims. Not for their religion, but for what they do and the ideas they hold that motivate them.

Let’s look at some of these ideas and keep in mind, that most muslims are not radicalized whack jobs who want to setup a caliphate and kill everything and everybody.

And I am asking for help here as well because I don’t know the answers, but if people do have numbers to attach to the following “bad ideas” I’d like to see them.

Bad Idea #1 - Depicting or satire regarding the prophet deserves death. Now I don’t have numbers, I will try to do some more research when I have time. But from what I have read and seen, many, many more muslims that the radicals believe this or other forms of severe punishment should be implemented should you draw a picture, make fun of, or offend Mohamed in some way. I have heard percentages up into the 70 percentile range regarding this is a shared belief among muslims, radical or not. Again, looking for help to confirm some of these things.
Point is, this is a bad idea. People shouldn’t be killed or physically brutalized for expressing a picture of words that offend others.

Bad Idea #2 - Leaving Islam deserves death or some severe sort of punishment. Again, the numbers of muslims who believe this is way higher than the amount of radicals who believe and carry it out. This is a bad idea. You have a right to not like people leaving the faith, you have the right to be angry about it, you don’t have the right to kill or physically harm somebody for it. Yet this is a widely held belief among muslims from what I have read. Way more widely held than just the radicals.

Bad Idea #3 - Apostates should be killed. My understanding is that fewer muslims believe this than the previous two ideas, but still way more than just the radicals do believe it. So while it may not be as popular among muslims, many more muslims than just the radicals believe this.

Bad Idea #4 - Treatment of women. This is a big topic, so lets narrow it down to infidelity. Infidelity is a terrible thing for either spouse to do, but in islamic cultures women can get the death penalty. Others belief in harsh physical punishment for the woman who does this, but not the man. Now, this is widely practiced in islamic cultures. Again, I am not saying the “religion” itself condones this, but it’s widely practiced. There are stories almost daily of women being beaten or stoned to death for cheating. Again, a bad idea held by way more than just the radicals in the religion.

I could go on and on and on (and I will later), and I encourage you guys to come up with more. And again, I need help putting numbers to the crimes.

The point is this, we need to look at the ugly truth about the people who claim to be muslim, hold these bad ideas and do little to nothing to condemn and eradicate the cancer within itself. They are being excused and being held to an extremely low standard by the west and particularly the left. That in itself is a “bigotry of low expectations”. If we are going to expect muslims to hold other muslims to a higher standard, we need to cut the PC bullshit and hold them, all of them, moderate, liberal, conservative, and everything in between type of muslims to a high standard.
We cannot just condemn ISIS, but excuse the Saudis “'cause it’s their culture”. Bullshit. It’s bad culture.

There may be many good muslims, but we need to hold them to a higher standard than we currently do. That goes from you and me, little peons of T-Nation, to the President who goes from crowing about ‘Women’s Rights’ in India, to letting the House of Saud belittle his wife by not even shaking her hand or acknowledging her presence in Riyadh.
If I were her, he wouldn’t be getting pussy for a long time after that bullshit move.

[quote]pat wrote:

Bad Idea #2 - Leaving Islam deserves death or some severe sort of punishment. [/quote]

Interesting: our allies the Saudis just sentenced a guy to death for leaving the faith yesterday.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

We went to war with Iraq, achieved the goal and withdrew. Now you want America to secure arms and enter into another war with Iraq for what?

[/quote]

My position has always been clear. We shouldn’t have left before the job was finished. Now that you have left, I’m not necessarily advocating anything. Besides, I don’t think you have the will to defeat them so another ground invasion would probably be a waste of time as you say. What I have suggested is arming the Kurds and air strikes. I advocated this from day one too.

A false equivalency. IS represents a threat to national security and to our embassies and consular buildings, trade routes and allies.

See above. Arming the Kurds and air strikes is what I have always suggested.

I didn’t say anything about going to war with a religion.

We should deal with national security threats no?

Again, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

You seem to be having a conversation with someone else. I didn’t say any of that.

[quote]
If the media took the time to announce some other gangs, terror groups, coups I’m sure ISIS would die down and the others would grow. So why should Obama continue to help this particular terror group gain in popularity?[/quote]

What other terror groups controls a region the size of the United Kingdom?

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I generally try to bring at least a little balance to discussion about Obama, but this time he’s gone off his fucking rocker:

Islam has been part of this country since the founding.

[quote] knee-gro wrote:

You reactionary nutjobs really can’t see that or are just playing dumb?

[/quote]

No I can’t. The only random attack on Muslims I’m familiar with in recent times was committed by a left-wing atheist.

Do you have any figures to suggest the Muslim community are in danger or something?

Anybody read this article from The Atlantic about ISIS? One of the best I’ve read. Obama should read it.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Anybody read this article from The Atlantic about ISIS? One of the best I’ve read. Obama should read it.

YES! I was actually going to post that a few days ago but forgot. Very good analysis.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Anybody read this article from The Atlantic about ISIS? One of the best I’ve read. Obama should read it.

YES! I was actually going to post that a few days ago but forgot. Very good analysis. [/quote]

Much better than when I posted it on page one of this thread. Besides, when I post it it signifies my secret desire to exterminate 1.2 billion Muzzzzzlams just like the Australians wiped out the aboriginals. Same as the Christian fundamentalist crusaders who want to kill all Mooselims.