[quote]brian12 wrote:
If you’ve tried intermittent fasting such as Leangains, (preferably as an eating lifestyle for making lean muscle gains as apposed to a short term cut), please can you share your results and experiences?[/quote]
Considering how Berkhan’s principles are MUCH MORE about timing than any particular food choices, the particular goal (ie. muscle gains or fat loss) shouldn’t much matter.
In other words, progress in either direction is still fundamentally based on manipulation of macros. And settling into any particular “feeding window” is still secondary to that.
[quote]fd24 wrote:
I’ve been doing my own version of the Warrior diet and I must say I am completely shocked. I was terrified to try it, I have been doing the 6-7 meals since I can remember but I always felt like it may not be the best or efficient way to diet. I’m not saying it’s wrong or that it doesn’t work but everybody is different and some people may respond better to more meals while others may do better with less. I’ve been doing it for about a month now, I’ve gained about 4 lbs and lost .5% bf…now you may say that isn’t anything to write home about but let me tell you I have had pizza, dairy queen, mcdonalds, chicken wings, cookies…I was eating much more “clean” before and yet I am leaner and bigger now. For me it’s WAY EASIER, worrying about eating all day no longer consumes my life. Last night after my lift I had protein, cereal, fruit, steak, cheddar pretzels, chicken, sushi, almonds, and cookies during my “eating window”. I am almost exactly where I was after I dieted for 12 weeks with no cheat meals, measuring each piece of food and following a carb cycling approach outlined by a top bb coach and yet I have “unclean” food EVERY single night. I have had numerous people tell me that I look bigger and more full since I have started. No doubt it has improved body composition. [/quote]
good results man - can i ask how many calories you were consuming to achieve that?
i presume somewhere just over maintenance? thanks
[/quote]
I honestly haven’t been counting calories at all…that’s kind of the beauty of it for me. Granted, I’m not trying to necessarily cut down or bulk up because I’m around 8-9% bf so I just eat whatever amount I feel like that night. I let my body determine. If I’m extremely hungry I will just keep eating during my “overeating phase”. If I had to guess I would say my protein consumption has definitely dropped but I still keep it around 200-250g when it used to be around 300-350g. [/quote]
Thanks for the reply man, just wanted some insight into how much you ate to get to 8-9%bf, i’m pretty much eating as much as i want at the moment within the eating window and have seen some decent results but want more, i’d like to avoid starting counting kcals again though, guess i’ll just try eat less lol.
It is easy to see how IF would lead to good results for cutting…I’ve never ran ANY diet(from 70% carbs to ketogenic) that didn’t produce exellent results when followed. Getting lean is easy; it’s adding LBM that’s hard work. I want to hear from people that have used the IF protocal to go from 160@8% to 210@8% or equivalent gains and have the pics. IF is frequently suggested to people that say their goal is to get bigger. Has anyone had success using IF to add any significant (15-20%) LBM?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
It is easy to see how IF would lead to good results for cutting…I’ve never ran ANY diet(from 70% carbs to ketogenic) that didn’t produce exellent results when followed. Getting lean is easy; it’s adding LBM that’s hard work. I want to hear from people that have used the IF protocal to go from 160@8% to 210@8% or equivalent gains and have the pics. IF is frequently suggested to people that say their goal is to get bigger. Has anyone had success using IF to add any significant (15-20%) LBM? [/quote]
Earlier I stated that I had gained 4-5lbs and dropped about 1%bf in about a month of IF. Like I said though I wasn’t even trying to gain weight or lose weight really, I only started for convenience and because the diet made sense to me. Going from 160 8% to 210 8% is pretty unrealistic, I’d be impressed if you could find ANY diet that would warrant that extreme of a change. That’s 50lbs of LBM, just not reasonable on any diet even on a steroid cycles you will not gain 50lbs of LBM, hell you are lucky to gain 10 lol, I mean that would take years and years. I think you have a very skewed perception of how the body works no offense. Look at most people on this site who did a traditional bulk diet, they are lucky to gain 5-10lbs of LBM, and most of what they put on is fat, water, etc. I think it would be easy to gain weight on IF but you would need to pay careful attention to macros and peri-workout nutrition.
And I’m not saying that isn’t reasonable over a VERY long period of time but 50lbs of LBM would take years and years, most of us were saying that we were relatively new to IF.
I believe that the main ethos of leangains prioritizes the “lean” over the “gains”, which means that bulking up would be necessarily slow. Whether the time it takes to bulk while remaining very lean is less than the time to bulk and then cut would be a good question.
The fact that you’re maintaining very good insulin sensitivity all the while might be an advantage, or it might be that the body doesn’t gain muscle as fast without synergistically gaining fat.
There was a twin study that demonstrated that one third of weight gained during overfeeding turned out to be muscle, without exercise recommendations. Then there was all that stuff about sumo wrestlers, which is pretty old.
Then you also have to consider the health benefits of IF and how much you care about that.
Martin does have some bodybuilding clients though I’m not certain of the method they used to get big.
So yeah, we don’t know for sure yet. Though I do intend to find out after this cut is done.
[quote]RCHY wrote:
Anyone successfully used LG for lean bulking purposes? I don’t know it makes any difference than just bulking up with a decent (+15% or so) surplus.[/quote]
There have been plenty of dudes gaining muscle on LG, just search the website. But in the end, it depends on the person so one would need to experiment with it. If they can’t eat big kcal meals in the allotted 8 hours, then just try 10 hours next time (14 hour fast), etc. Just need to tinker with it. It may not be LG to the letter, but it still lets you reaps the rewards of fasting.
[quote]RCHY wrote:
Anyone successfully used LG for lean bulking purposes? I don’t know it makes any difference than just bulking up with a decent (+15% or so) surplus.[/quote]
Working on it now. I’ll update here in a few months.
I went up 15lbs in 3months using IF. It can be used for bulking but only certain people can. You have to be able to eat lots and lots of food. I can. For some reason i never get a signal from my stomach that i am full i can eat and eat and eat. Good for gaining bad for losing.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I went up 15lbs in 3months using IF. It can be used for bulking but only certain people can. You have to be able to eat lots and lots of food. I can. For some reason i never get a signal from my stomach that i am full i can eat and eat and eat. Good for gaining bad for losing.[/quote]
lucky you’re a gym rat and have some self discipline otherwise i suspect you would be obese!
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I went up 15lbs in 3months using IF. It can be used for bulking but only certain people can. You have to be able to eat lots and lots of food. I can. For some reason i never get a signal from my stomach that i am full i can eat and eat and eat. Good for gaining bad for losing.[/quote]
Lean mass was probably more like 10 maybe a bit more. Honestly its what you hear everyone talk about. Eat and lift. I lifted everyday heavy 6 exercises per muscles group or so. back/bi, chest/tri, legs, shoulders/traps repeat. Made sure i would eat at least 3500cals each day. I would count up till then and then if i was still hungry keep eating in my window. That was it.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
that’s average gains, with LG, IF or not.[/quote]
It is? 15lbs in 3 months to which the guy says 10lbs were solid? Obviously we are only going off of his word BUT if he did gain 15lbs in 3 months and 10 of it was “good” weight then I would call that pretty successful. Anybody can throw on 30lbs of fat and be a sloppy disgusting mess then call it a “bulk”. However, that is an inefficient way of doing things because it is not necessary to gain all of the fat that comes along with regular “bulking”. Nobody is saying IF is the only way, just that it has worked for some of us and that we like it.
I am not claiming that IF was what made it happen. Someone jsut asked if it could happen to put on weight with and the answer is yes. IS it any better i have no idea it just was convient i liked the large meals. Maybe blood tests would look better (i didnt get any). So it might be healthier that 6 meals a day like a recent spill by TC. I have progress pics in my log. But yes right now you are taking my word. I went form 155 to 170 or slightly over in 3months. Then i slowed down and only got another 10lbs or a bit more in the next 4months but i lost some of the softness as well (not that i really got overly soft always had abs when flexed). By no means extraordinary gains but i was happy with them.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I am not claiming that IF was what made it happen. Someone jsut asked if it could happen to put on weight with and the answer is yes. IS it any better i have no idea it just was convient i liked the large meals. Maybe blood tests would look better (i didnt get any). So it might be healthier that 6 meals a day like a recent spill by TC. I have progress pics in my log. But yes right now you are taking my word. I went form 155 to 170 or slightly over in 3months. Then i slowed down and only got another 10lbs or a bit more in the next 4months but i lost some of the softness as well (not that i really got overly soft always had abs when flexed). By no means extraordinary gains but i was happy with them.[/quote]
I was sticking up for you and your progress, I only said we were taking your word because someone else said they needed pictures. I think 15lbs in 3 months is great progress especially if it was “solid” weight.
Sorry if i seemed defensive i didnt mean in it that way. I was agreeing with you that you are taking my word for it. But also i do have pics up in another thread. I guess i call it solid weight maybe some that no more would say no. Strength levels shot up and body weight followed and never lost abs if that matters really at all.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry if i seemed defensive i didnt mean in it that way. I was agreeing with you that you are taking my word for it. But also i do have pics up in another thread. I guess i call it solid weight maybe some that no more would say no. Strength levels shot up and body weight followed and never lost abs if that matters really at all.[/quote]
Which thread is it? I’d be interested in taking a look. As I mentioned I just finished my first month and I’m up about 7-8lbs as of today and down 1% bf. Now, I did use bioelectrical impedance to measure my bf which isn’t always accurate but I have been using it consistently so it’s still useful in monitoring my bf.
The first 2 pics are from july. sitting around 180 then. Then the last pic was my lowest after 2 years of stupid weight trainging (ie not trying to progress just going in and lifting weights but not keeping track) and doing way too much cardio and not eating enough left me manorexic. Left me at 155lbs and no muscle. The middle pic i am some were around 170. Feel free to look through the thread there are more current pics and side by side comparisons around as well. http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_indigo_2/ryans_indigo_experience_