Cool feedback and some interesting points made. For the guys that have seen good progressions (muscle gain and fat loss); are you people training ‘un-aided’??? It just seems to me that these ‘diets’ work fantastically when on a cycle; Anabolic diet for one… I know I’ve tried it ‘un-aided’ and ‘aided’. It works fantastically when on, tough as shit without gear.
I’m just curious.
Martin Berkhan certainly looks like he may be using something, but maybe I’m just jealous. (although he reminds me of a lot of shredded guys in my gym who are heavily using Clen and ECA, but hey, that’s just my opinion.
[quote]JJSchmidt wrote:
Cool feedback and some interesting points made. For the guys that have seen good progressions (muscle gain and fat loss); are you people training ‘un-aided’??? It just seems to me that these ‘diets’ work fantastically when on a cycle; Anabolic diet for one… I know I’ve tried it ‘un-aided’ and ‘aided’. It works fantastically when on, tough as shit without gear.
I’m just curious.
Martin Berkhan certainly looks like he may be using something, but maybe I’m just jealous. (although he reminds me of a lot of shredded guys in my gym who are heavily using Clen and ECA, but hey, that’s just my opinion.
[/quote]
I am training completely unaided. But I can only attest for IFs and Carb Backloadings ability to lose fat and MAINTAIN muscle and strength at this stage because I havent added any serious calories back in to gain weight substantially as yet. I have raised calories though and still seen increased fat loss on CBL. But nothing to show any real muscle gain. Strength is being maintained and slowly increasing on some things.
The caveat to this is that before going solely IF or CBL I did use Keifers suggestion (and my natural inclination) to skip breakfast and extend my fast for 2-3 hours after waking before my first meal. I have done this for over 2 years and when bulking it helped significantly to reduce the amount of fat gained over previous bulks when I habitually ate breakfast upon waking. So Im very excited to bulk with CBL and expect to see very good (and leaner) gains.
Not that I would say I look as though I am “aided” (cause I’m not)…unless fish oil, calcium and Vit D are considered “aided”…
As for IF being unable to developing optimum muslce, I would say its 50/50. I have gained size with IF, even with the low carb and lower calorie, and I think if I upped the calories I could but alot more size, quicker. I can agree that no MR. O will have done it thru IFing, but then again, they wont be doing without thousands in Anabolics either…
I would say, for the majority of people, IFing would serve their body composition goals better than the traditional bulk/ cut strategy.
[quote]throws56 wrote:
Not that I would say I look as though I am “aided” (cause I’m not)…unless fish oil, calcium and Vit D are considered “aided”…
As for IF being unable to developing optimum muslce, I would say its 50/50. I have gained size with IF, even with the low carb and lower calorie, and I think if I upped the calories I could but alot more size, quicker. I can agree that no MR. O will have done it thru IFing, but then again, they wont be doing without thousands in Anabolics either…
I would say, for the majority of people, IFing would serve their body composition goals better than the traditional bulk/ cut strategy.
[/quote]
Agreed. People at the top of the bell curve (i.e. those of us with average genetics) are probably best served both health wise and physique wise by following something with IF as part of its structure. Leangains, Carb Backloading, Eat Stop Eat or whatever.
Natural here as well and no, that’s not overly impressive at all like others have stated.
That said, Strength and size gains coming along slowly while fat loss continues at a better clip using leangains method for about a 14 hour fast and 10 hour feeding period daily.
I agree with the consensus here - you won’t blow up in a hurry using IF but I started using it in October of last year and don’t foresee changing that strategy…well ever really.
Basically I agree with all recent posters and have had the same experience with IF. If you’re trying to lean out and put on a bit of muscle it’s the best option IMO.
[quote]jreynolds_4 wrote:
Natural here as well and no, that’s not overly impressive at all like others have stated.
That said, Strength and size gains coming along slowly while fat loss continues at a better clip using leangains method for about a 14 hour fast and 10 hour feeding period daily.
I agree with the consensus here - you won’t blow up in a hurry using IF but I started using it in October of last year and don’t foresee changing that strategy…well ever really.
Basically I agree with all recent posters and have had the same experience with IF. If you’re trying to lean out and put on a bit of muscle it’s the best option IMO.
[/quote]
In regards to never going back to “normal” eating habits. I very much enjoy the fast and feed strategy. I remember first stumbling upon Martin’s blog…sheer confusion, horror, disbelief hit me like a train. Its amazing how brain washed we are by the mainstream’s 6 meals a day eating pattern. Doesn’t go along with nature in any way and people still think if you don’t eat every 3 hours your body going to start eating its muscle.
As for Berkhan, with his extensive knowledge/support of a healthy lifestyle, i’d doubt he’s on anything. If you look at his before/after photos, he was a big boy as a kid… Now he’s just lean as hell, and all his muscles pop.
Agreed with throws56, @ 192lbs, i eat ~2300kcal a day 5 days a week, then ~3500kcal the other 2 days, whilst carb cycling. It’s allowed me to get fairly lean (av is current), while improving strength, and adding mass. But like most said, it’s a fuckin process, not a “get huge quick” scheme by any means.
Honestly though, it seems like IF’ing has completely restructured my digestion/metabolism. I can eat HUGE amounts of food 5-6 thousand kcal a day for 2-3 days, and not get “fluffy”. It’s quite a weird phenomena. I used to bloat and blow up if i ate any appreciable amount of carbs.
[quote]eightohfive wrote:
ya i’m juiced…obviously… ha
As for Berkhan, with his extensive knowledge/support of a healthy lifestyle, i’d doubt he’s on anything. If you look at his before/after photos, he was a big boy as a kid… Now he’s just lean as hell, and all his muscles pop.
Agreed with throws56, @ 192lbs, i eat ~2300kcal a day 5 days a week, then ~3500kcal the other 2 days, whilst carb cycling. It’s allowed me to get fairly lean (av is current), while improving strength, and adding mass. But like most said, it’s a fuckin process, not a “get huge quick” scheme by any means.
Honestly though, it seems like IF’ing has completely restructured my digestion/metabolism. I can eat HUGE amounts of food 5-6 thousand kcal a day for 2-3 days, and not get “fluffy”. It’s quite a weird phenomena. I used to bloat and blow up if i ate any appreciable amount of carbs.[/quote]
Agreed! IFing seems to definitively increases my insulin sensitivity pretty drastically. although I still tend to eat low carb now due to health reasons, and it huge carb meals leave uncomfortably bloated (waterwise) for that night…it would prolly be easier if I could get in the real 8 hour eating block to space the meals out more, but currently with school its not as feasible.
[quote]Mateus wrote:
Found this IF/Leangains calculator today. Not sure how long its been around or how many people know about it already but here it is…
I know that for those that train early Martin has a plan laid out were you take only BCAAs and eat later in the day. Would there be anything wrong with eating early around training and fasting starting around noon or one?
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
I know that for those that train early Martin has a plan laid out were you take only BCAAs and eat later in the day. Would there be anything wrong with eating early around training and fasting starting around noon or one?[/quote]
Yes. That would be incredibly unoptimal. Boardering on useless. The idea is to fast in the first half of the day because 1. you wake up in a fat burning state, fasting just continues this a bit longer. 2. food in the later part of the day is better partitioned towards muscle than it is fat. So you can see how alteration of the timing would ruin the benefits.
You can still train in the morning and reap the benefits of increased fat loss by fasting until afternoon/evening.
I’ve been trying this out for the past week. I went to the gym and trained fasted. I took 8 grams of BCAAs 30 minutes before the workouts, but I was definitely weaker. I went from doing about 5-6 reps of a weight to only being able to squeeze out 2 before failing. Is this normal?
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
I’ve been trying this out for the past week. I went to the gym and trained fasted. I took 8 grams of BCAAs 30 minutes before the workouts, but I was definitely weaker. I went from doing about 5-6 reps of a weight to only being able to squeeze out 2 before failing. Is this normal?[/quote]
STATS/GOALS/EXPECTATIONS OF IF?
It’s not normal. But it’s likely to happen if your over all nutrition isn’t sound. You need to be eating really well PWO in order to make this style of feeding work.
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
I’ve been trying this out for the past week. I went to the gym and trained fasted. I took 8 grams of BCAAs 30 minutes before the workouts, but I was definitely weaker. I went from doing about 5-6 reps of a weight to only being able to squeeze out 2 before failing. Is this normal?[/quote]
STATS/GOALS/EXPECTATIONS OF IF?
It’s not normal. But it’s likely to happen if your over all nutrition isn’t sound. You need to be eating really well PWO in order to make this style of feeding work. [/quote]
Goals weight loss/fat loss. My nutrition is fine unless I’m missing something specific in my diet. I don’t know I just felt weaker somehow. Besides having a small meal preworkout I don’t see what else I could do. I ordered this EAA product and it just arrived. I’m going to try out a scoop before working out and mix a scoop in some water to drink while lifting and see if that helps.
I just know some people said it takes a couple workouts to get use to lifting fasted. I’m wondering if being a little weaker is part of it. I’ve only been doing this less than a week.
By PWO do you mean post workout? I’m following the diet. Eat your biggest meal after working out, and second biggest second and third meal smallest.
I can post a list of what I eat. I eat the same stuff every day so it’s possible I may be missing something important.
But I get between 150-200 grams of protein and I take a multivitamin, COQ10, fish oil, vitamin d, and a ZMK mineral complex. I’m 180 atm, and eating about 2500 calories a day. It’s only that low because for some odd reason I have a hard time losing weight/fat. That’s why I’m trying this new diet out.
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
Goals weight loss/fat loss. My nutrition is fine unless I’m missing something specific in my diet. I don’t know I just felt weaker somehow. Besides having a small meal preworkout I don’t see what else I could do. I ordered this EAA product and it just arrived. I’m going to try out a scoop before working out and mix a scoop in some water to drink while lifting and see if that helps.
I just know some people said it takes a couple workouts to get use to lifting fasted. I’m wondering if being a little weaker is part of it. I’ve only been doing this less than a week.
By PWO do you mean post workout? I’m following the diet. Eat your biggest meal after working out, and second biggest second and third meal smallest.[/quote]
It definately does take a little bit to get used to, but you shouldnt be losing any strength this early on.
Ok, so what time line are you feeding and fasting on? Where in this does your workout occur? If you are working out towards the late afternoon/early evening, and fasting from waking up then I think you could definately benefit from a preworkout meal. At the very least Id recommend some Coconut oil and coffee preworkout. This always gives me the energy I need to get through a workout without detriment, almost regardless of how I was eating that day. If you want to maximise fatloss keep all preworkout meals low carb. Look into Carb Backloading as this is a more efficient way to IF in my opinion.