Interesting ok. Misunderstood.
I can second this. Dr Calkins at Defy told me at my initial consult that he wants my Free T between 20 and 25. He told me, and I’m going by his word here, that the “optimized” T levels would allow my body to start bringing other sub par hormone levels in line. This is yet to be proven as I’m only 2.5 weeks into this new protocol, but I will update after my follow ups.
My thinking on this whole discussion, not that my opinion amounts to jack shit here, is that if I am spending this amount of money, and subjecting myself to all of the hardships of adjusting to protocols (anxiety and insomnia), to eventually FEEL BETTER (remember this is the reason that we all started this journey in the first place), then you’re damn right that I don’t want to be just somewhere in the middle of the road. I want to be in the best place that I can possibly be. I want to be in the best shape of my life. I want to feel better and stronger than I ever have in my life. Now I do NOT want to be at supraphysiological levels, because that could pose its own health risks, but I do want to be in the lowest risk category that I can be for any low T related health issues.
If I’m going through all of this to just to be “meh…ok”, then what’s the point? I have a decent enough personality where I could have learned to live with feeling like shit without TRT. But I don’t want feel like shit. I don’t even want to just feel ok. If I’m putting myself through all of this, and sticking myself with a needle multiple times a week then, for all of this effort, I want to feel GREAT!!! Lol
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I agree with this. I expect to lower my dose when am older. Maybe like over 60. I want to be mid-range than. Now I don’t mind being high normal.
Was the human body designed to with stand high normal with aging organs? No one knows for sure. But I gather the answer is no. Life expectancy of Asians is the one of the highest, is it because they inject testosterone? There are alot of variables. We are hypogonadal so it’s a little different.
According to this you want mostly mid range levels.
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Well said. I can see being higher than natural is ok, but not 20year old t levels at 65. Maybe 30s
Not true. I value your opinion and enjoy reading your posts.
You have a lot of common sense and real world experience.
I wonder what Free T range he was think about when he said that?
The LabCorp range for Free T tops out at 18.
I have serious problems with HCT if my Free T goes over range for any length of time.
See, this where I get confused, as they tell me the same thing. However, I get my labs done at a local hospital and my range for free-T there is 4.4-16.8ng/ml. Now, I may be an idiot and I’m missing something, but isn’t this reading not applicable to the ranges Defy uses if those ranges are pg/ml versus my hospital’s ng/ml? Maybe @systemlord could help me with this? I’m not sure how the conversion works and why they say I should be in the low 20’s if I’m not using pg/ml.
Edit: After looking up picogram to nanogram conversion I’m even more confused…
Wow! I have no idea what to say to that brother! lol Thank you?!
This is a screenshot of my initial labs from Defy / LabCorp…They list the range going up to 21.5. Maybe he’s thinking that just above the range would be good for me based on other factors??
I’m hoping that HCT doesn’t become an issue for me. If it does I’ll back the dose down a bit and ride it out, providing it’s not too crazy…
I think it’s all going to depend on the lab and the specific type of testing they utilize, and also whether they are measuring free T or calculating it. I could be wrong though.
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My latest lab Corp free t range wa who to 25. They changed it recently.
What’s your altitude up there in Big Sky Country?
I’m at 8000 Westernslope CO. My HCT is 49 before TRT. So I’m kind of F’d
I’m not quite ad high as you are. Where I live we’re only at around 3200’. I grew up in south Louisiana at around 10’ lol! I wish that I had an old lab from when I was younger to see where my hct was then, and how much it has changed since moving up here.
My last labs showed me at 48.3 @ 50mg E3.5D. I’m curious to see how much that number changes on my next labs on 50mg X3 / week. In August last year I was at 45, and then my pre-TRT labs last September showed 50.1.
Got any advice on things that can be done or added / taken away from the diet that will help minimize the impact on hct?
Some guys are really lucky and a higher T dose does not increase their HCT.
Those guys have a much easier time at running high doses but the negative effects on the heart issues are still there and can’t be measured with blood tests.
High over range T doses are not healthy they just let you pack on a bunch of muscle for a short period of time. It can kick your libido back into gear if one was having that issue. But long term is dangerous.
Yeah I don’t ever want to be above the recommended levels, much less stay there. I’m pushing to the 20-25 range for Free T at trough because this is what Dr Calkins stated. If I feel ok at that range without any other issues, ie hct, I don’t mind staying there. If I don’t, I’ll back it down to 120mg total and not tell them if I have to. I don’t want to play with fire for sure!
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What type of heart problems are not caught in blood. Are we talking health of the heart muscle and the veins and etc ?
The main thing that comes to mind for me is that, we all know that supra levels of Test is great at helping to grow muscle tissue right? Well, the heart is a muscle, and you’re working it just as hard every time you exercise. With higher levels of test in the system, the heart starts growing as well. Over time, this has been shown to cause significant enlargement of the heart, which is not so good. There are studies that show this, and I’ll try to look up some later, but right now I’m at work can’t spare the time.
Edit to add… the “how” part of the enlargement of the heart is purely speculation on my part as I don’t know exactly how it happens. The fact that repeated and prolonged aas abuses DOES cause enlargement of the heart has been documented.
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It’s left ventricular hypertrophy. On the plus side my anxiety has subsided since my mondays injection , did another today hopefully things have straightened out
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Glad to hear that brother!
100% right. I found this to be true when you listen to the discussion of body builders who passed away. Most had enlarged hearts. Others organs as well. I remember lance Armstrong had a huge heart and we learn years later he doped.
So yes we need to stay within the limits our genetics dictate.