Impact on T and Free T when Lowering AI Dose?

Pharma TRT
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I am in the process of tapering my AI (Arimidex) dose down from 4MG per week after a sensitive E2 test came back at 12 and I was experiencing severe low E2 symptoms.

This question might be too basic, but I am wondering what impact, if any, I should expect to see on my Total T and Free T numbers due to the decreased dose of the AI. At this point, I have worked my way down to 2 MG per week. Based on how I am feeling, I will likely reduce it again to 1.5 MG per week. My weekly T dose is 140 MG split equally into two shots. I assume that my body will begin to convert more T to E2 (which I want) but am also now wondering if that’s going to cause a dip in T and Free T (which I do not want)?

Thanks for any help or shared experiences.

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I assume the AI in question is arimidex. Who told you to take 4mg/w? Because that person knows nothing and is absolutely not helping you. With e2 at 12 your AI dose should be 0.0mg/w.

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Want my experience, after only taking three .125mg anastrozole spread out over 5 days I scored a sensitive E2 of 12 pg/mL. You need to take it down significantly unless you want to be walking around having your joints cracking and popping, estrogen is needed for bone strength, joint health and libido believe it or not.

Without estrogen you have no mood, no libido and the only thing you experience is a state of anxiety. The AI only affects estrogen levels, it prevents testosterone from converting over into estrogen be temporarily deactivating the aromatase enzyme.

There’s a time and a place when AI’s should be used with the intent of weaning off of them completely, but at these dosages it’s just reckless. Take a few weeks off the AI and allow E2 to rebound.

No mention of any numbers based on this 140 weekly protocol.

Do you have any SHBG numbers?

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You never stopped taking it? Stop now.

You don’t need to taper it, you need to stop taking it.

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You built so much ai in your system that you need to stop now. You may be causing permanent damage. Hang tough for 6 weeks and things should stabilize.

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Forget tapering, stop taking the AI. It doesn’t matter what your TT and FT numbers are if you have E2 that low. Stop the AI, reassess in 6 weeks.

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Thanks for all of your thoughts. Very helpful.

Following the ultra sensitive E2 lab result of 13 ( < or = 29 pg/ml), I did immediately begin to taper the anastrazole dose down from 4MG per week. I did this because I do very poorly with huge swings. I tapered down as follows:

Week 1 - 3.5 MG
Week 2 & 3 - 3 MG
Week 4 - 2 MG (1 MG twice per week)
Week 5 - 1.5 MG (.75 MG twice per week)
Week 6 - 1 MG (.5 MG twice per week)

At the end of week 5, I ran another Quest Ultrasensitive E2 lab and it came back at 24. ( < or = 29 pg/ml)

I was happy to see that my E2 rebounded a bit since the 13 reading. I’m now in week 6 and expect that it should continue to climb given that the last E2 lab was run in week 5 at 1.5MG per week and I’m now into week 6 which involves a further reduction to 1 MG per week.

I will be running the same ultrasensitive lab again in a few weeks to see where things are at.

I’m done chasing the E2 number and will focus on symptoms from here on out.

As for changes since beginning this massive reduction, I have noticed a very slight improvement in libido (but not substantial at all). Performance isn’t any better yet. My joints are feeling a bit better but are certainly still feeling the impact of the crash. I was immediately less lethargic and exhausted and that has continued. Strangely, my morning wood has all but vanished since reducing the AI dose (and was at its most intense when my E2 was tanked and in the toilet).

My most recent SHBG lab with E2 at 24:

SHBG 56.9 20.0-60.0 (nmol/L)

My most recent TT and Free T labs with E2 at 24:

Total T 1580 375-1000 (ng/dl)

Free T 3.12 0.87-5.47 (ng/dL)

Current Protocol:

Test Cyp - 140 MG per week (70 MG twice per week)
HCG - 250 IU EOD
Anastrazole - 1 MG per week (.5 MG twice per week)

Relying on the wrong E2 lab caused me to spend 5 full months with crashed E2 chasing the problem in the wrong direction. Symptoms were brutal but when I was getting regular (not ultra sensitive) E2 labs in 40s and 50s I assumed that it was running too high. Turns out symptoms were all low E2. It appears from the labs that my body is recovering.

I am guessing that my E2 will be up around 30 with the reduction down to 1 MG of the AI per week.

I am wondering now if I should hang in there for six weeks at 1MG per week to see if all of these other symptoms dissipate with my body having some time with the increased E2 level or if should I continue to taper the doseage down (or even drop it entirely now that it’s down lower) until I feel good again and then slowly add it back in when/if symptoms present. Any thoughts on that, given these updated labs, and the direction of things, would be most appreciated.

Thanks

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I’m also rebounding my E2 after starting out on too high on my AI dosage, everytime I decrease the AI I feel better. I started on .125 EOD and thought E2 was still high after a week, when in fact it was low (12 pg/mL).

Now I’m taking .03125 EOD (1/4th original dose) and every 2 days I feel amazing, it’s safe to assume E2 is rebounding.

I haven’t really been running labs to see where estrogen is at, I prefer to go off how I feel because I don’t believe in chasing numbers.

I can’t believe how my anastrozole you were originally taking, your very lucky you didn’t crash your estrogen!

You’re one of those guys who requires supraphysiological doses of testosterone to have enough bioavailable testosterone.

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Everyone’s thoughts in this thread were helpful. I wanted to provide an ongoing update:

My AI (Arimidex) taper continued from week 6 above.

Week 7 - .5 MG (.25 MG Twice per week)
Week 8 - .5 MG (.25 MG Twice per week)
Week 9 - .5 MG (.25 MG Twice per week)

At the end of week 8 I ran another Quest Ultra Sensitive E2 lab and it came back at 38 (< or = 29 pg/ml).

My joints feel 1000 times better and improved. My lethargy and exhaustion has vanished. I feel better. Posts here encouraging a reduction or the complete elimination of the AI were really helpful.

I have had fleeting moments of libido between e2 24 and e2 38, but I have never felt all the way back. Sexual performance has improved considerably, but also still not all the way back.

My question at this point is whether I continue to taper this down to zero or if I have now reached an E2 number beyond which I cannot reasonably expect to feel good? If I come all the way off at this point (or even reduce to .125 twice per week - .25 total) it seems likely that my body will settle somewhere between e2 of 40-50. As above, my total T and SHBG are high, so perhaps it’s possible to feel good, have libido and sexual performance, and not have high e2 side effects at that high an E2 range?

My latest SHBG with e2 38:

SHBG 56.9 20.0-60.0 (nmol/L)

My most recent TT and Free T labs with E2 at 38:

Total T 1580 375-1000 (ng/dl)

Free T 3.12 0.87-5.47 (ng/dL)

As far as the next opportunity goes for labs, I will be running another full set in three weeks.

Again, I am feeling better and E2 has rallied to 38 but still searching for libido. I am trying to figure out if I have sailed right through a sweet spot, or if I just simply have not reached it yet. In that regard, it would be helpful to know if anyone out there with high SHBG functions well at E2 above this range.

Thanks!

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You have so much room to lower your dose and cut out the AI.

You said your still taking the AI? Probably why you don’t feel 100% still.

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Thanks for the quick thoughts, Aplhagunner. So much room to lower the T dose or the AI dose? The reason for the high Total T of 1580 (375-1000 ng/dl) is that I have high SHBG and pushing Total T that high has been the only way to get Free T into a respectable range where I feel decent. With my high SHBG if my Total is around 1000 then my Free T really dips and I feel no impact from TRT.

I am still taking the AI with Sensitive E2 now at 38 (< = 29). I have tapered it down to .25 MG twice per week (.5 per week). Libido hasn’t really fully returned yet following my E2 crash, and I’m wondering if anyone has had success with E2 running up over 40 on the Sensitive lab. If I come all the way off the AI I am certainly heading there and probably up towards 50. Just trying to get some feedback from guys who have successfully run E2 over 40 with high SHGB and high Total T before I continue to head in that direction.

Thanks!

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Are you overweight?
Liver damaged?
Keto Diet?
Intermittent fasting?

What is your protocol right now?

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I am not overweight. Lean with dialed in nutrition and training.

No liver damage at all. Many labs done over the years trying to figure out why SHBG was always so high, but nothing at all wrong with liver.

I am not on a keto diet. Very balanced. Never fasting.

Protocol right now:

Test Cyp - 140 MG per week (70 MG twice per week)
HCG - 300 IU EOD
Anastrazole - .5 MG per week (.25 MG twice per week)

Following my E2 crash, my libido just won’t recover. It has certainly improved since my E2 was bottomed out at 13 (< = 29). There were moments that it felt promising between E2 24 and E2 38 (where it’s at now) but never all the way back. It seems with my labs above that I am just trying to find an E2 number that feels good and right.

Does @physioLojik run guys up over E2 40 with Total T and Free T in my ranges?

@physioLojik, if you read this, any thoughts on whether I should continue to taper my current AI dose down and push E2 up even more?

Thanks everyone for all the help. Invaluable feedback to date.

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One of the most common posts goes something like this: I felt great, then I started taking arimidex and I feel like shit now.

Bottom line, stop taking armidex, you have NO reason to take it. if your e2 goes up high, lower your dose or try other natural methods.

Bro I cant STOP from tanking my e2 on supplements, and I have a higher SHBG like yourself.

Whenever I was fucking with my e2, I felt like garbage.

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