I'm 20 with Low Test. Please Read

Pharma
1

Okay, so I’ve been to six different endo’s and I’ve had eight blood tests all resulting in low testosterone. The last test showed slightly low FSH and LH so he gave me clomid which did absolutely nothing. It’s been a year since my first test, and I’ve received no treatment until this morning, when my doctor called me.

He’s been saying that my increased prolactin is due to weight lifting and high protein. He also says that building muscle and eating protein lowers testosterone because the protein binds to the test making it worthless or something like that so we only tested free test which wouldnt be ‘skewed’.

I had to tell him that I wanted HRT, and he said that he would only prescribe me 6 months of Androgel. He said that the danger in HRT is that once I stop it, it would take 2 years for my FSH and LH values to increase and at that point my body will finally be making my own test again. He specifially said “You think you have low test now?” “Wait til you stop using this stuff”.

I do not want to become dependant on this stuff. Could I switch to injections after the 6 months and have my body start producing its own test again? Should I just f*** this doc and get my own test?

I’ve been reading about how beneficial the use of HCG can be while on androgel, too. Could HCG along with Androgel be a long term solution?

LH 6.0 1.7 - 8.6
FSH 2.4 1.5-12.4
Prolactin 49.2 4.0 - 15.2 I’ve already had a pituitary MRI
Test, Free, Direct 10.6 9.3 - 26.5
Estradiol 20.7 7.6 - 42.6
IGF-1 498

2

There was a thread about this a few days ago:

If you go on TRT you won’t go off, trust me. Im not sure everything your doctor said is factual, hopefully others can add there knowledge.

3

Do you have any previous PED use?

4

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Do you have any previous PED use? [/quote]

I once took T-Bomb II from GNC when I was about 17 years old, thats all. No one knows where my high prolactin levels are coming from so they blame it on my diet.

5

I guess you have the option of thoroughly educating yourself on dopamine, prolactin and cabergoline and then discuss that with your doctor. See how that goes.

6

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I guess you have the option of thoroughly educating yourself on dopamine, prolactin and cabergoline and then discuss that with your doctor. See how that goes. [/quote]

“I guess”…You don’t sound too confident in your suggestion. Can you explain the connection between thoroughly learning those three items and my original post? Thank you.

7

[quote]JonBlood wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I guess you have the option of thoroughly educating yourself on dopamine, prolactin and cabergoline and then discuss that with your doctor. See how that goes. [/quote]

“I guess”…You don’t sound too confident in your suggestion. Can you explain the connection between thoroughly learning those three items and my original post? Thank you.[/quote]

I said “I guess” because it’s up to you and that particular point is the only thing I have to offer in this thread.

I’m hardly educated enough to explain why your prolactin level is that high or how it relates to your low Free T level.

I just know that Cabergoline is used by people who experience high prolactin as a side effect of nandrolone use. Which is why I said you should familiarize yourself with that particular process so you can talk to your endocrinologist about it. I told you to thoroughly research it so you can sound somewhat educated on the topic if you choose to bring it up with the doctor instead of just throwing terms at him/her and saying “I heard about it on the web”.

If you don’t want to, that’s fine. I don’t really care one way or another. But it sounds like you are implying that I’m sending you on a wild goose chase with my advice.

8

I didn’t mean to sound like a dick. Your suggestion sounded like a research project and “I guess” wasn’t too reassuring. I will look into Cabergoline; I’m surprised none of my doctors mentioned it. I appreciate your help.

9

According to my pathophysiology book high prolactin levels can bo produced from stress, hypothyroid, pituitary tumors, renal failure, and meds that effect dopamine like anti-depressants. Prolactin inhibits GnHR, gonadotropin releasing hormone, which signals your body to release stuff like testosterone. It presents in men as hypogonadism and possible headache or visual disturbances if its due to a tumor. You’ve already had an MRI and your prolactin level is less than 200ng/ml so tumor is unlikely. I’d ask them to check your thyroid levels. That and check over any medications you’re taking that could effect dopamine.

10

What do you think about the effect of THC on dopamine? I stopped smoking for four months last year and noticed no difference. I don’t know if four months was long enough for it to be cleared from my receptors or not, but I started smoking again.
I’m getting Androgel but I also want to ask for hcg and cabergoline…might be a bit of a stretch

11

I doubt simply asking for cabergoline is going to get you far. Which is why I recommended educating yourself about it so when the doc says you don’t need it you can respond with reasons why lowering prolactin is a good idea.

Obviously a doctor will know more than me but in general, just asking for a drug not commonly presrcribed for this purpose won’t work out well.

If I were in your situation I’d be asking my doctor why the high prolactin isn’t be addressed before resorting to TRT.

12

I don’t think simply asking for cabergoline is going to get you very far.

That’s why I said it’s a good idea to familiarize yourself with this stuff so when the doc tells you youre not getting it you can respond with a reason why it may be useful.

If I was in your situation I’d be asking the doctor why the high prolactin level isn’t being addressed before going on TRT. TRT is a treatment, not a cure. I can’t imagine you want to be on TRT for 40+ years.

13

http://www.ukcia.org/research/EndocrineEffects.pdf

according to this study cannabis use has shown up to a 65% decrease in gonadotropins. it could be your culprit. either way you would want to find out why you’re levels are off before you start messing with your endocrine sytem more. quite smoking, get your thyroid checked, and tell your dr. you smoke. he needs to know everything about you to make an accurate diagnosis.

14

[quote]HelmetMJC wrote:
http://www.ukcia.org/research/EndocrineEffects.pdf

according to this study cannabis use has shown up to a 65% decrease in gonadotropins. it could be your culprit. either way you would want to find out why you’re levels are off before you start messing with your endocrine sytem more. quite smoking, get your thyroid checked, and tell your dr. you smoke. he needs to know everything about you to make an accurate diagnosis.[/quote]

That’s a very interesting study. I have way high prolactin, and this study said:
“Animal studies have demonstrated an acute reduction of prolactin levels
after THC administration in both rodents and primates” “Block et al17 found no differences
in prolactin levels in both men and women in the largest cross-sectional study of chronic marijuana users.”

I’m a chronic user, according to this study I’d have lowered prolactin. It may be safe to say that I can rule out marijuana as a cause to my hormonal problems. Lets hope so ;D

16

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
In young men with high prolactin, it is important to check/rule out a pituitary micro-adenoma (PMA).

This is super-critical and I’m surprised your Dr has not even mentioned it.

A prolactin secreting growth on the pituitary may be treated by prolactin antagonists, but this only masks the symptoms and does nothing for the cause. If the growth encroaches on other tissues (as it will eventually if it is growing), you will suffer from universal lowering of all pituitary hormones (as those secreting cells get crushed by the growth) except prolactin. Eventually, the growth will encroach on the optic chiasm, resulting in visual disturbance.

So get your Dr to either screen for the PMA or provide a DMAN good reason not to. Then get a second opinion.

BBB[/quote]

Sorry I wasn’t clearer, I already had a pituitary MRI that came out negative. No one seems to know the cause of my high prolactin levels. Thank you for your response!

17

ABSTRACT. Idiopathic hyperprolactinemia (IH) can be defined as the presence of elevated serum PRL levels in a patient in the absence of demonstrable pituitary or central nervous system disease and of any other recognized cause of increased PRL secretion. This study examined the long term clinical outcome of 41 patients (mean age, 26 yr) with IH followed for up to 11 yr (mean, 5.5 yr). Initial and final PRL levels were determined by RIA in the same laboratory.

A correction factor was used to obviate periodic changes in the potency of the NIH standards used in the PRL assay, so that all results are expressed in terms of the original VLS no. 1 standard. The initial serum PRL levels ranged from 27.2â??243 ng/ml, with a mean of 57 ng/ml. Only three patients had initial serum PRL levels greater than 100 ng/ml. All had a normal skull x-ray and/or brain computed tomographic scan during their initial visit.

All 41 patients had galactorrhea and/or amenorrhea. Serum PRL levels remained the same, decreased, or returned to normal in 34 of 41 patients. The mean PRL level at the time of reevaluation was 35 ng/ml. Thirty-four percent of the patients had a normal serum PRL level. Only 17% of the patients had serum PRL levels that were significantly higher (>50% of their original value). Six of 9 patients with an initial serum PRL level less than 40 ng/ml had normal levels. One patient developed a pituitary tumor (initial PRL, 150 ng/ml).

All patients reevaluated with brain computed tomographic scans had normal pituitary size. No patient reported a worsening of signs or symptoms, and in many, improvement (n = 16) or complete resolution (n = 8) of the amenorrhea and/or galactorrhea occurred. Twenty-seven spontaneous or bromocriptine-induced normal pregnancies and deliveries occurred without development of a pituitary tumor.

Therefore, our data clearly challenge the use of ablative pituitary therapy for IH and raises questions of the benefit of chronic medical therapy for this condition.

52 consecutive patients with hyperprolactinemia and 52 healthy subjects matched for sociodemographic variableswere enrolled. Nineteen patients (18 F/1M) had no pituitary tumor and were diagnosed as suffering from idiopathic hyperprolactinemia. Patients with additional pathology or with high prolactin due to medications were excluded.

All patients were interviewed by Paykel Interview for Recent Life Events while on remission after surgery or pharmacological treatment. The time period considered was the year preceding the first signs of hyperprolactinemia, and the year before interview for controls.

The results showed that patients with hyperprolactinemia reported significantly more life events than control subjects (P<0.001). The same significant difference compared to controls applied to patients with (n=16) and without (n=36) depression.

All categories of events (except events that were likely to be under the subjectâ??s control) were significantly more frequent. There were no significant differences between patients with prolactinoma (n=33) and those with idiopathic hyperprolactinemia (n=19).

Within the complexity of phenomena implicated in the pathogenesis of hyperprolactinemia, our findings emphasize a potential role of emotional stress in either prolactin secreting pituitary tumors or idiopathic hyperprolactinemia. Appraisal of life stress may have implications in clinical assessment (e.g., functional hyperprolactinemia) and decisions (e.g., termination of long-term pharmacological treatment). High prolactin levels may interfere with the menstrual cycle and fertility. It is conceivable that a reduction in life stress may be beneficial.

18

[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
ABSTRACT. Idiopathic hyperprolactinemia (IH) can be defined as the presence of elevated serum PRL levels in a patient in the absence of demonstrable pituitary or central nervous system disease and of any other recognized cause of increased PRL secretion. This study examined the long term clinical outcome of 41 patients (mean age, 26 yr) with IH followed for up to 11 yr (mean, 5.5 yr). Initial and final PRL levels were determined by RIA in the same laboratory.

A correction factor was used to obviate periodic changes in the potency of the NIH standards used in the PRL assay, so that all results are expressed in terms of the original VLS no. 1 standard. The initial serum PRL levels ranged from 27.2â??243 ng/ml, with a mean of 57 ng/ml. Only three patients had initial serum PRL levels greater than 100 ng/ml. All had a normal skull x-ray and/or brain computed tomographic scan during their initial visit.

All 41 patients had galactorrhea and/or amenorrhea. Serum PRL levels remained the same, decreased, or returned to normal in 34 of 41 patients. The mean PRL level at the time of reevaluation was 35 ng/ml. Thirty-four percent of the patients had a normal serum PRL level. Only 17% of the patients had serum PRL levels that were significantly higher (>50% of their original value). Six of 9 patients with an initial serum PRL level less than 40 ng/ml had normal levels. One patient developed a pituitary tumor (initial PRL, 150 ng/ml).

All patients reevaluated with brain computed tomographic scans had normal pituitary size. No patient reported a worsening of signs or symptoms, and in many, improvement (n = 16) or complete resolution (n = 8) of the amenorrhea and/or galactorrhea occurred. Twenty-seven spontaneous or bromocriptine-induced normal pregnancies and deliveries occurred without development of a pituitary tumor.

Therefore, our data clearly challenge the use of ablative pituitary therapy for IH and raises questions of the benefit of chronic medical therapy for this condition.

52 consecutive patients with hyperprolactinemia and 52 healthy subjects matched for sociodemographic variableswere enrolled. Nineteen patients (18 F/1M) had no pituitary tumor and were diagnosed as suffering from idiopathic hyperprolactinemia. Patients with additional pathology or with high prolactin due to medications were excluded.

All patients were interviewed by Paykel Interview for Recent Life Events while on remission after surgery or pharmacological treatment. The time period considered was the year preceding the first signs of hyperprolactinemia, and the year before interview for controls.

The results showed that patients with hyperprolactinemia reported significantly more life events than control subjects (P<0.001). The same significant difference compared to controls applied to patients with (n=16) and without (n=36) depression.

All categories of events (except events that were likely to be under the subjectâ??s control) were significantly more frequent. There were no significant differences between patients with prolactinoma (n=33) and those with idiopathic hyperprolactinemia (n=19).

Within the complexity of phenomena implicated in the pathogenesis of hyperprolactinemia, our findings emphasize a potential role of emotional stress in either prolactin secreting pituitary tumors or idiopathic hyperprolactinemia. Appraisal of life stress may have implications in clinical assessment (e.g., functional hyperprolactinemia) and decisions (e.g., termination of long-term pharmacological treatment). High prolactin levels may interfere with the menstrual cycle and fertility. It is conceivable that a reduction in life stress may be beneficial.
[/quote]

Thank you for that. The first study was conducted on all women. And as for the second study, I’m very stress free. The only stress I can imagine is from daily weight lifting in the gym. Could be? So I guess I have Idiopathic Hyperprolactinemia.

I would also like to know if you guys think I should try to get hcg with my androgel or ask for injections which is very doubtful because I’m a 20 year old muscular man (Obvious meat head) lol.

19

Testosterone is testosterone. Androgel is simply more expensive and less effective in some people.

Of course you should ask for injections. Using hCG and arimidex is also adviseable for men on TRT. Have you read the TRT thread in the Over 35 forum?

20

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
Okay, so I’ve been to six different endo’s and I’ve had eight blood tests all resulting in low testosterone. The last test showed slightly low FSH and LH so he gave me clomid which did absolutely nothing. It’s been a year since my first test, and I’ve received no treatment until this morning, when my doctor called me.

He’s been saying that my increased prolactin is due to weight lifting and high protein. He also says that building muscle and eating protein lowers testosterone because the protein binds to the test making it worthless or something like that so we only tested free test which wouldnt be ‘skewed’.

I had to tell him that I wanted HRT, and he said that he would only prescribe me 6 months of Androgel. He said that the danger in HRT is that once I stop it, it would take 2 years for my FSH and LH values to increase and at that point my body will finally be making my own test again. He specifially said “You think you have low test now?” “Wait til you stop using this stuff”.

I do not want to become dependant on this stuff. Could I switch to injections after the 6 months and have my body start producing its own test again? Should I just f*** this doc and get my own test?

I’ve been reading about how beneficial the use of HCG can be while on androgel, too. Could HCG along with Androgel be a long term solution?

LH 6.0 1.7 - 8.6
FSH 2.4 1.5-12.4
Prolactin 49.2 4.0 - 15.2 I’ve already had a pituitary MRI
Test, Free, Direct 10.6 9.3 - 26.5
Estradiol 20.7 7.6 - 42.6
IGF-1 498[/quote]

You are only looking at the symptoms - you need to find the underlying cause. Taking HRT at you age will mess you up for life.

I would suggest just to start with is have a Functional Adrenal Stress Profile done. This is a saliva test.

I would also suggest investigating you GI function.