[quote]JPBear wrote:
samsmarts wrote:
Due the stricter punishments in their criminal system they also have larger compensations in their civil system. The systems go hand in hand dumbass.
I can almost hear the gears in your brain grinding away as fast as they can.
Stop it. You are going to hurt yourself.[/quote]
JP
Like your style. Hope you hang around in the Politcal Forum a little more often.
You are restoring my faith in Canadians!!
[quote]Like your style. Hope you hang around in the Politcal Forum a little more often.
You are restoring my faith in Canadians!! [/quote]
Yes, compliment her on a post that actually says nothing factual, but sounds nice and insults someone who is in disagreement.
No wonder you like her style!!
Or did you mean the blatant ass kissing of American systems in comparison to Canadian systems?
I can imagine you’d like that too!!
[quote]hedo wrote:
JPBear wrote:
samsmarts wrote:
Due the stricter punishments in their criminal system they also have larger compensations in their civil system. The systems go hand in hand dumbass.
I can almost hear the gears in your brain grinding away as fast as they can.
Stop it. You are going to hurt yourself.
JP
Like your style. Hope you hang around in the Politcal Forum a little more often.
You are restoring my faith in Canadians!!
[/quote]
The neocons love you… how surprising! Just make sure to throw in a “liberals are scum” and “Praise Dubya” along with your “I hate my cowardly country Canada” mantra and their love for you will continue unabated.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Skin color played a huge part in this trial. Had the victims been KKKers, the case would have been lost in the bottom of the file cabinet years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he got off easy. He could have gotten up to 180 years if I heard the judge correctly this morning.
But if you think this case was strictly about the killing of three people, you are mistaken.
This is a hate crime and the old guy should fry.
The bible says and eye for and eye.
[/quote]
Hate crimes are bullshit. Isn’t every crime done with hate?
How is killing an Asian, Mexican, Black, queer, bi-trans-swapped-gender-confused individual any different than killing someone else?
Hate crime law is ridiculous.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Skin color played a huge part in this trial. Had the victims been KKKers, the case would have been lost in the bottom of the file cabinet years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he got off easy. He could have gotten up to 180 years if I heard the judge correctly this morning.
But if you think this case was strictly about the killing of three people, you are mistaken.
This is a hate crime and the old guy should fry.
The bible says and eye for and eye.
Hate crimes are bullshit. Isn’t every crime done with hate?
How is killing an Asian, Mexican, Black, queer, bi-trans-swapped-gender-confused individual any different than killing someone else?
Hate crime law is ridiculous.[/quote]
Dude you are soooo right. If I kill someone, I killed them. They are not any less dead if it was for “hate” or for my next drug fix.
The real message in the hate crime crap is that there are acceptable and non-acceptable reasons to commit a crime or kill someone. So if I kill you for money to feed my family, then everyone feels so sorry for me and they let me off with a light sentence. But if I kill you because I don’t like you, than all hell breaks loose and I get the chair! So this law is about justifying crime not pushing it.
A crime is a crime regardless of the reason. The person is still dead regardless of your motivation.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Skin color played a huge part in this trial. Had the victims been KKKers, the case would have been lost in the bottom of the file cabinet years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he got off easy. He could have gotten up to 180 years if I heard the judge correctly this morning.
But if you think this case was strictly about the killing of three people, you are mistaken.
This is a hate crime and the old guy should fry.
The bible says and eye for and eye.
Hate crimes are bullshit. Isn’t every crime done with hate?
How is killing an Asian, Mexican, Black, queer, bi-trans-swapped-gender-confused individual any different than killing someone else?
Hate crime law is ridiculous.[/quote]
When the killing is soley spurred by someones race. You know like when a crime of passion murder is caused by a dude catching his wife humping another.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Like your style. Hope you hang around in the Politcal Forum a little more often.
You are restoring my faith in Canadians!!
Yes, compliment her on a post that actually says nothing factual, but sounds nice and insults someone who is in disagreement.
No wonder you like her style!!
Or did you mean the blatant ass kissing of American systems in comparison to Canadian systems?
I can imagine you’d like that too!![/quote]
Vroom
It’s opinion. I like her style because she has one and doesn’t back off from men. Or Canadian pundits.
Of course I like someone who admires our system and thinks a system that seems to tolerate crime is wrong.
Gotta climb down off the fence one day.
Sounds like she frightens you.
Hedo,
I respect everyone who can legitimately argue their opinion, including JP.
That doesn’t mean I agree with her, or like the fact that she is a “self-loathing” Canadian who likes to complain.
One of the reasons is that tards like yourself will jump to unreasonable conclusions, like you just did with your last statement, because of her statements.
That’s too bad really. You’ve got an opportunity to look into the differences between two systems, to see the pro’s and con’s of each, but you’d prefer to pat yourself on the back and just assume your system is perfect.
Good job, blind man.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Hedo,
I respect everyone who can legitimately argue their opinion, including JP.
That doesn’t mean I agree with her, or like the fact that she is a “self-loathing” Canadian who likes to complain.
One of the reasons is that tards like yourself will jump to unreasonable conclusions, like you just did with your last statement, because of her statements.
That’s too bad really. You’ve got an opportunity to look into the differences between two systems, to see the pro’s and con’s of each, but you’d prefer to pat yourself on the back and just assume your system is perfect.
Good job, blind man.[/quote]
Vroom
Keep you personal attacks to yourself. Internet tough guy wannabe’s are a dime a dozen. Take some anti-e and go back and fight with JP.
You can’t debate, discuss or opine on any subject without lowering yourself to personal attacks. Sad fact. Read some of your posts. it belittles you more then anyone.
Tard…wow that’s really a stinging comeback. Blind man…some wit there, dude.
I expressed admiration for a woman who tied your panties in a knot. It’s opinion. If you don’t like it it’s really your problem not mine. Digress all you want pumpkin but your socialist paradise is not all it’s cracked up to be.
Hedo,
Oh, cry me a river. I’m here saying there are problems with our system, admitting JP can point out issues, and you say I am disagreeing with her?
Keep patting yourself on the back and looking for sorry excuses to ignore everyone who doesn’t agree with you. This is a prime opportunity to learn, for folks on both sides of the border.
Anyhow, are you now the PC police, making sure I post in ways that don’t upset anyone? I thought you were against the PC movement? Make up your mind.
Are we allowed to offend people or not?
[quote]vroom wrote:
Hedo,
Oh, cry me a river. I’m here saying there are problems with our system, admitting JP can point out issues, and you say I am disagreeing with her?
Keep patting yourself on the back and looking for sorry excuses to ignore everyone who doesn’t agree with you. This is a prime opportunity to learn, for folks on both sides of the border.
Anyhow, are you now the PC police, making sure I post in ways that don’t upset anyone? I thought you were against the PC movement? Make up your mind.
Are we allowed to offend people or not?[/quote]
I’ll simplify so you don’t misinterpet or fail to comprehend…
I don’t give a fuck what you post. It’s usually irrelevant so I skip over it.
You personal attacks are the sign of a weak individual. Keep making them as long as you want. They usually draw a chuckle from me.
Try and read up on the philosphy the owners of Biotest have been trying to foster around here. See where you fit into it.
My lack of response will have to do more with other useful activities and boredom so have a nice day.
Through the magic of Internet translation… bzzzt bzzt bzzt…
I’m a whiny fuck and anything that doesn’t agree with my viewpoint I don’t pay any attention to.
Wow, technology is pretty cool!
[quote]vroom wrote:
I don’t give a fuck what you post. It’s usually irrelevant so I skip over it.
Through the magic of Internet translation… bzzzt bzzt bzzt…
I’m a whiny fuck and anything that doesn’t agree with my viewpoint I don’t pay any attention to.
Wow, technology is pretty cool![/quote]
Finally we agree on something. You are a whiny fuck.
Before this gets tooooo out of hand…
I believe the first thing one has to realize is what the Criminal Justice System was created for. As the name implies, it was created to do “Justice” on Crimes. It was not created to prevent crime – the name makes that obvious.
Now, over the centuries, some people have realized that in itself could serve no real purpose other than something as irrational as revenge, and that what would make sense was having a system that served its purpose as a crime deterring tool, besides the police force (which WAS created to prevent crime), which clearly isn?t enough. It’s much more rational to try and deter crime rather than provide a means to exert revenge, and the police force is badly in need of help in that department.
Unfortunately, the fact is that Justice Systems all over the world are still trying to do Justice. Even though I believe that concept is fundamentally flawed, and that the whole Justice System thing should be fully replaced by something that is a little more rational, I’m not going to preach on that since I know that humanity is so bent on the concept of revenge (the “eye for an eye” concept that permeates even most, if not all, religions) that changing that would probably require a full redesign of the species.
So, let’s forget for a moment how effective they are preventing crime; let’s focus if they’re good at dispensing Justice, which was what they were designed to do.
The biggest problem with a non-deity like the human species to try and dispense justice is that we are not omniscient, and, hence, we don’t really ever know what the “truth of the facts” surrounding a potential crime is. So we compromise in our pursuit of the truth.
Clearly, the US system is a lot more aggressive than Canada’s in the way it compromises. Is that good or bad?
In essence, Canada chose to follow the current Western European trend of being very, very careful and avoiding conviction of people that don’t “deserve” to be convicted at all costs – even if the cost is letting people who did commit horrendous acts go easily.
So, in Canada, the compromise is that a lot of “evil” people get “away” easy to prevent at all cost that “good” people get convicted wrongly.
The US, however, chose, in practice, the opposite compromise: by having much longer and harder sentences, it severely punishes however gets convicted, even if that means that some “good” (innocent) people get their lives destroyed (literally or not).
So, in the US, the compromise is that a lot of “good” people will get convicted – and their lives destroyed – so that more evil people get “properly” convicted and taken off the streets.
I’m not going to defend or attack either of the systems in general, because the consequences of their compromises are both very serious, and, as I say above, the whole concept behind them is fundamentally flawed.
Just think of it this way: which one would you feel would be more unjust for you:
In Canada, your daughter gets raped (or worse, killed) and, in spite of the overwhelming evidence, the rapist / killer gets “away” with a short sentence and will be back on the streets to rape or kill more in just a few years
In the US, your 22 year old son gets in a drunken bar fight and gets convicted of murder and sent to jail for life – or, worse, death row – even though you know he didn’t kill anyone and got framed for it. While in jail, he becomes a human toilet
Take your pick…
[quote]
I understand Texas is having trouble funding its schools.[/quote]
Off topic, but no. We are just trying to redo the way it is funded. Currently we use property taxes and a Robin Hood plan, which sucks for all.
Hedo, your a smart man step outside your ideology (box) for a moment and try to take a clear look.
JP Bear shares many of the conservative views you do. That’s great people agree and disagree. I happen (obviously)to agree with Vroom’s point of view most of the time.
But, she makes a blanket statement that is basically just… Canada sucks and oh Great America is so wonderful. She doesn’t address any of the complexities involved and the realistic fact that America isn’t a just paradise without blemish.
It was childish and if you were a true friend and mentor you would call it as such. But, because she has expressed her pro war views in the past and bashed liberals,Vroom, and Canada, you cheerlead and give the ol “Well, hell gal, I admire the shit outta you and think your just peachy keen for standing up to everyone”.
That’s one of the differences I feel happens with conservatives and liberals. Republicans and Democrats is that “liberal” minded people look at the complexities and with logic and what makes sense.
“Conservatives” to me represent people who act on emotion and often times that is angry emotion whether they are mad at gays, muslims, Canadians, liberals, any body who express a different view of the herd.
You can’t speak to them calmly or politely they have their minds set in stone and will not listen to you. They won’t look for other alternatives. Their behavior reminds of tactics used in elementary school very insidious.
They will viciously call you a traitor or weak if you speak softly when you disagree with their views. When you bring the level of discourse to what they have defined they will accuse you of losing your cool.
You can’t argue with them because they are like a child trying to get out of trouble when confronted by an authority figure their story will keep changing, but they will then accuse you of that.
Ultimately what I want, what I seek, is the truth and the party you are beholding to in my view doesn’t give that and has most of the herd anesthetized.
You guys lose credibilty not to each other of course, but to any rationale person watching with the blind allegience to one another even if someone is dead wrong.
[quote]1. In Canada, your daughter gets raped (or worse, killed) and, in spite of the overwhelming evidence, the rapist / killer gets “away” with a short sentence and will be back on the streets to rape or kill more in just a few years
Take your pick…[/quote]
Is there a third option?
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Hedo, your a smart man step outside your ideology (box) for a moment and try to take a clear look.
JP Bear shares many of the conservative views you do. That’s great people agree and disagree. I happen (obviously)to agree with Vroom’s point of view most of the time.
But, she makes a blanket statement that is basically just… Canada sucks and oh Great America is so wonderful. She doesn’t address any of the complexities involved and the realistic fact that America isn’t a just paradise without blemish.
It was childish and if you were a true friend and mentor you would call it as such. But, because she has expressed her pro war views in the past and bashed liberals,Vroom, and Canada, you cheerlead and give the ol “Well, hell gal, I admire the shit outta you and think your just peachy keen for standing up to everyone”.
That’s one of the differences I feel happens with conservatives and liberals. Republicans and Democrats is that “liberal” minded people look at the complexities and with logic and what makes sense.
“Conservatives” to me represent people who act on emotion and often times that is angry emotion whether they are mad at gays, muslims, Canadians, liberals, any body who express a different view of the herd.
You can’t speak to them calmly or politely they have their minds set in stone and will not listen to you. They won’t look for other alternatives. Their behavior reminds of tactics used in elementary school very insidious.
They will viciously call you a traitor or weak if you speak softly when you disagree with their views. When you bring the level of discourse to what they have defined they will accuse you of losing your cool.
You can’t argue with them because they are like a child trying to get out of trouble when confronted by an authority figure their story will keep changing, but they will then accuse you of that.
Ultimately what I want, what I seek, is the truth and the party you are beholding to in my view doesn’t give that and has most of the herd anesthetized.
You guys lose credibilty not to each other of course, but to any rationale person watching with the blind allegience to one another even if someone is dead wrong. [/quote]
Elk
Not to get to far off topic but the subject matter really didn’t interest me all that much.
I simply pointed out some admiration for a woman who stands up for herself. She seemed kind of cool and of course shared a similar philosphy. I basically got attacked for giving someone an attaboy, and responded.
I hear what your saying and idealogues on both side of the aisle tend to get a little tedious. Liberals and coservatives.
I kind of share the same philosphy you posted in another thread. Someone wants to act like an adult and discuss something they get treated that way. They want to ignore the point and start name calling I kind of lose interest.
At some point this forum really needs to get back on track and discuss topics and issues and drop the personality throwdowns. I think they drive away more people then they attract. I am sure the ranks have thinned quite a bit over the years and we have lost the input of some good people.
Hello,
First time for me to post. I just couldn’t resist this one. I’ve kept up on T-Nation for a long time but never signed up or said anything. (I love this site by the way).
It seems to me that the only person who has actually posted real situations of lenient sentences along w/ real names and places is JP. There is a lot of argument about which country is worse. Well, find some situations. Post the results on this board. It’s easy to debate theology all day, it’s hard to find real situations.
Another thought, I personally am not scared of harsh sentences, or being sent to prison for a crime I did not commit. Really, it does not create one bit of fear in me. I would like to think that law abiding citizens, including those in the States, feel the same way.
And, a question for Vroom. How can you respect someone’s legitimately argued opinion and in the next breath call them a self loathing complainer?
Elk,
I don’t want to stray off topic, but your comments can’t go unattended.
“That’s one of the differences I feel happens with conservatives and liberals. Republicans and Democrats is that “liberal” minded people look at the complexities and with logic and what makes sense.”
This? Coming from you? The man that when presented with tough questions from the other side of the fence has only one tool in his belt, the ‘neocon’ slur?
I disagree with your whole statement, but maybe - and I am being charitable - someone could make this argument. But of all the people left of center here - it’s not you.