You make it really hard to have a conversation when you are such a jerk.
What is being a jerk about shining some comon sense, and some truth on your fanciful little fantasy?
I DO know about farming, I own a farm for fuck’s sake.
No. You don’t know about farming. You own land, and rent it out to someone that knows about farming. Your ideas prove you know nothing about the science.
Fuck off. You’re being ignored now.
Ignore me all you want, but when you start insulting farmers and what they do - I will make a point of shining this same light on it.
Why are you ignoring me? Most people with such “innovative” ideas relish the opportunity to talk about it, and debate it. You, however, are cussing and pouting in the corner.
[/quote]
Didn’t even read your post, just saw you responded. Bottom line, have a conversation with someone (else) that can tolerate your manner.
You make it really hard to have a conversation when you are such a jerk.
What is being a jerk about shining some comon sense, and some truth on your fanciful little fantasy?
I DO know about farming, I own a farm for fuck’s sake.
No. You don’t know about farming. You own land, and rent it out to someone that knows about farming. Your ideas prove you know nothing about the science.
Fuck off. You’re being ignored now.
Ignore me all you want, but when you start insulting farmers and what they do - I will make a point of shining this same light on it.
Why are you ignoring me? Most people with such “innovative” ideas relish the opportunity to talk about it, and debate it. You, however, are cussing and pouting in the corner.
Didn’t even read your post, just saw you responded. Bottom line, have a conversation with someone (else) that can tolerate your manner.[/quote]
What manner? You were the one that told me to fuck off.
FYI - you are in my forum. If you can’t tolerate me, you had best find somewhere else to post because I am not going anywhere.
But, we drive up costs on the consumer through our present system, no? I would think domestic taxes become embedded into the price of domestic goods.[/quote]
Certainly any form of taxation drives up cost but restricting free trade can allow domestic manufacturers to drive up their price. If a Toyota had to sell for $ 30,000 would the equivalent Ford still sell for $ 20,000 or would it go for $ 29,000? GM would also follow suit.
This is much easier when the number of competitors is restricted.
And then think of the smuggling aspect! What a disaster.
I become suspicious when people talk about free trade, free markets, but then turn around and favor tax payer funded subsidies so a central authority may “shift the economy in a favorable direction.”[/quote]
I’m sorry to hear that but the fact is that Zap is mostly correct and yet a pure laissez faire market has never existed in the modern world… My main point being that subsidies and tariffs are a world apart in terms of their effect on our economy.
You make it really hard to have a conversation when you are such a jerk.
What is being a jerk about shining some comon sense, and some truth on your fanciful little fantasy?
I DO know about farming, I own a farm for fuck’s sake.
No. You don’t know about farming. You own land, and rent it out to someone that knows about farming. Your ideas prove you know nothing about the science.
Fuck off. You’re being ignored now.
Ignore me all you want, but when you start insulting farmers and what they do - I will make a point of shining this same light on it.
Why are you ignoring me? Most people with such “innovative” ideas relish the opportunity to talk about it, and debate it. You, however, are cussing and pouting in the corner.
Didn’t even read your post, just saw you responded. Bottom line, have a conversation with someone (else) that can tolerate your manner.
What manner? You were the one that told me to fuck off.
FYI - you are in my forum. If you can’t tolerate me, you had best find somewhere else to post because I am not going anywhere.[/quote]
You really want to talk to me don’t you? Can’t blame you really. Do you see how Sloth and I can disagree yet carry on amicably? Learn.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
As for farming, we could do away with subsidies. [/quote]
Subsidies are going away. With the sudden rise in grain prices, cotton is being drug along with it. Last year not a single farmer client of mine received a dollar in price support. Granted, the huge price increase is due in large part to the Ethanol Program, and the rest due to a deflated dollar.
The Conservation Reserve Program is being phased out in 2 years, which has been the biggest government handout in history.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
As for farming, we could do away with subsidies.
Subsidies are going away. With the sudden rise in grain prices, cotton is being drug along with it. Last year not a single farmer client of mine received a dollar in price support. Granted, the huge price increase is due in large part to the Ethanol Program, and the rest due to a deflated dollar.
The Conservation Reserve Program is being phased out in 2 years, which has been the biggest government handout in history.
[/quote]
That’s true. I suppose Ethanol would’ve accounted for much of it.
But, we drive up costs on the consumer through our present system, no? I would think domestic taxes become embedded into the price of domestic goods.
Certainly any form of taxation drives up cost but restricting free trade can allow domestic manufacturers to drive up their price. If a Toyota had to sell for $ 30,000 would the equivalent Ford still sell for $ 20,000 or would it go for $ 29,000? GM would also follow suit.
This is much easier when the number of competitors is restricted.
And then think of the smuggling aspect! What a disaster.
[/quote]
What if that American car could have sold for less if we weren’t embedding costs into it’s price? And, I don’t think we’d need much of a tariff at all, if we sharply cut our need for tax revenue. Remember, I am talking about severly cutting government spending, also. So, while domestic goods would be less expensive, I don’t believe foreign goods need be much more expensive at all.
Meaning, I don’t think domestic manafactures would end up with that much room to drive up prices, or they’d end up still giving the advantage to the foreign supplier. And remember, now we’re talking about a consumer who is keeping far more of his paycheck for himself. No income tax.
What if that American car could have sold for less if we weren’t embedding costs into it’s price? And, I don’t think we’d need much of a tariff at all, if we sharply cut our need for tax revenue. Remember, I am talking about severly cutting government spending, also. So, while domestic goods would be less expensive, I don’t believe foreign goods need be much more expensive at all.
Meaning, I don’t think domestic manafactures would end up with that much room to drive up prices, or they’d end up still giving the advantage to the foreign supplier. And remember, now we’re talking about a consumer who is keeping far more of his paycheck for himself. No income tax.[/quote]
Cutting federal government spending would be wonderful but we would end up increasing spending (hopefully to a lesser degree) in state and local areas as well as privatization.
I would love to see that happen but it doesn’t have to be tied to income tax elimination.
I am not opposed to income tax elimination and at least I would like to see it modified.
No matter what we do with spending and taxation I think tariffs are generally the wrong way to go to raise money.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If high paying jobs are exported, then how will we be able to afford all the imports?
The highest paying jobs are not being exported, it’s the mid-level ones that are gone/in jeopardy. [/quote]
Okay, it follows that there are more of those kinds of jobs than top-tiered ones. If all these jobs disappear, then demand for goods must fall. Companies that send work to China, for ex, and layoff all their employees are counting on someone else WITH money to buy the Chinese made goods.
I would contend that this MUST be self-correcting. It doesn’t help to outsource jobs if you can’t sell what you’re making. Wendy’s employees rarely buy new Camrys.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If high paying jobs are exported, then how will we be able to afford all the imports?
The highest paying jobs are not being exported, it’s the mid-level ones that are gone/in jeopardy.
Okay, it follows that there are more of those kinds of jobs than top-tiered ones. If all these jobs disappear, then demand for goods must fall. Companies that send work to China, for ex, and layoff all their employees are counting on someone else WITH money to buy the Chinese made goods.
I would contend that this MUST be self-correcting. It doesn’t help to outsource jobs if you can’t sell what you’re making. Wendy’s employees rarely buy new Camrys.
[/quote]
Health-Care workers and Government employees buy new Camrys.
It’s great up here in the Great White North. Only the criminals carry guns. No mandatory drug sentences unless you caught bringing crappy drugs into the country, we have standards! Health care is free but you have to wait your turn. We have three taxes, pst, gst, and your pay chegue deductions (we also spell chegue the right way).
We are also forced to pay unemployment insurance that were are not aloud to collect unless they (the government) thinks we deserve it. We’re not racist we hate everyone equally. The largest growing business is the growing business (pot, pardon me the best pot). Our army sucks because we have you for a neighbor, so no one will fuck with us.
We pay our hockey players in American dollars even thou it’s our game. We don’t get the really great Super Bowl commercials. We’re polite as hell until you piss us off, then we take our ball and go home. Ninety percent of use live within fifty miles of America, but we really don’t like you we just want you to think we do so you’ll leave us alone.
Our economy is based on you economy, so get it the fuck together. Some of those jobs you losing come up here, and we’re not giving them back, India gets them next, sorry India is already here. Our beer is far to strong for you! So feel free to move on up here but bring your own rolling papers.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
You really want to talk to me don’t you? Can’t blame you really. Do you see how Sloth and I can disagree yet carry on amicably? Learn.[/quote]
I really don’t care if you respond, or not. You insult farmers and their contribution to this country, and then you are insulted when someone is offended by it.
You have yet to back up a single statement you have made regarding farming.
The best you have done is told me to fuck off. Tell me what is amicable about that?
I think you are scared to take on someone that actually knows what he is talking about. I think you know you were insulting and demeaning, and you are embarrassed that you got called on it immediately.
But whatever. Your ignoring me makes no difference. Whether or not you engage me in a discussion about farming will not stop me from publicly correcting you when you are wrong on the subject.
I’m sorry to hear that but the fact is that Zap is mostly correct and yet a pure laissez faire market has never existed in the modern world… My main point being that subsidies and tariffs are a world apart in terms of their effect on our economy. [/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Sloth wrote:
As for farming, we could do away with subsidies.
Subsidies are going away. With the sudden rise in grain prices, cotton is being drug along with it. Last year not a single farmer client of mine received a dollar in price support. Granted, the huge price increase is due in large part to the Ethanol Program, and the rest due to a deflated dollar.
The Conservation Reserve Program is being phased out in 2 years, which has been the biggest government handout in history.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Subsidies are going away. With the sudden rise in grain prices, cotton is being drug along with it. Last year not a single farmer client of mine received a dollar in price support. Granted, the huge price increase is due in large part to the Ethanol Program, and the rest due to a deflated dollar.
The Conservation Reserve Program is being phased out in 2 years, which has been the biggest government handout in history.
Thank God.[/quote]
Not so fast. We are replacing out right Gov’t farm subsidies with an artificial market for grains. Ethanol production, as the fed has it currently running, is a joke. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol will produce.
It is only a matter of time before this program is scrapped.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Subsidies are going away. With the sudden rise in grain prices, cotton is being drug along with it. Last year not a single farmer client of mine received a dollar in price support. Granted, the huge price increase is due in large part to the Ethanol Program, and the rest due to a deflated dollar.
The Conservation Reserve Program is being phased out in 2 years, which has been the biggest government handout in history.
Thank God.
Not so fast. We are replacing out right Gov’t farm subsidies with an artificial market for grains. Ethanol production, as the fed has it currently running, is a joke. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol will produce.
It is only a matter of time before this program is scrapped. [/quote]
I thought it had at least a slightly positive energy balance. Looks like I was fooled again. Looks like it’s another government scam.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I thought it had at least a slightly positive energy balance. Looks like I was fooled again. Looks like it’s another government scam. [/quote]
At best it is break even. But I think - especially with corn and wheat - that it is negative.
Switchgrass, and sugar cane are far more efficient than grains.
For making fuel Hemp would be the best source. Grows anywhere and grows almost as fast as bamboo. Multiple uses and theres no need for subsides, could you imagine rich farmers. That would suck wouldn’t it.