I Could Put a Bullet In.....

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:

Normal people don’t think of life in bipolar terms. But you are right, you are closer to this woman than us moderates.

Straight to the ad-hominem attacks…

You must have killer-arguments!

After reading Nominal Prospects thoughts on politics and women I think Karva is quite perceptive.

NP is a loon.[/quote]

Maybe he also has a loving relationship with a goat and howls naked at the moon?

Who knows?

That takes on iota away from his argument in what way?

42

[quote]JPBear wrote:
It’s hard to understand how a person could become so cruel and cold and deceived. Satan has obviously been at work in this family.

I heard an interview with her a couple of weeks ago on the Christian radio show I listen to. The host was trying to corner her on her own sin. It was frustrating and sad to listen to her. She did not even understand the basics of the Christian faith. She just kept reverting to her lunatic ravings.
[/quote]

That pretty much sums up her postion of your line of thinking…

We could throw a coin…

43

You can check out more ramblings here:

www.godhatesamerica.com

44

[quote]orion wrote:
karva wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:

Normal people don’t think of life in bipolar terms. But you are right, you are closer to this woman than us moderates.

Straight to the ad-hominem attacks…

You must have killer-arguments!

Wasn’t you applauding insult just a little while ago?

Clever!

But what was he insulting and what was insulted by you?

It wasn’t an insult what he wrote, it was an opinion. Well written and exaggerated to underline the point. I wasn’t insulting him either. I agreed that he, or the viewpoint he argued for, was closer to this womans mindset than that of moderate people, whom he wished to die.

Closer to that womans ideas as in intellectually consistent?[/quote]

Anything can be intellectually consistent if you accept the premises. Do you really believe, that religiosity is first and foremost an intellectual thingy? I know, that many ardent believers want to argue so, but do you buy their claims? Do you think that atheism is first and foremost an intellectual thingy?

45

[quote]karva wrote:
Do you really believe, that religiosity is first and foremost an intellectual thingy? I know, that many ardent believers want to argue so, but do you buy their claims? Do you think that atheism is first and foremost an intellectual thingy?[/quote]

Hint: If it’s not made out of atoms, it’s an intellectual thingy – which means that it’s pretend.

Don’t get me wrong now – I’m not saying that something is worthless just because it is only metaphorical and not “real”, just be aware of the true nature of things so you don’t go wacko like the crazy lady in this video.

Just sayin’.

46

[quote]karva wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:
orion wrote:
karva wrote:

Normal people don’t think of life in bipolar terms. But you are right, you are closer to this woman than us moderates.

Straight to the ad-hominem attacks…

You must have killer-arguments!

Wasn’t you applauding insult just a little while ago?

Clever!

But what was he insulting and what was insulted by you?

It wasn’t an insult what he wrote, it was an opinion. Well written and exaggerated to underline the point. I wasn’t insulting him either. I agreed that he, or the viewpoint he argued for, was closer to this womans mindset than that of moderate people, whom he wished to die.

Closer to that womans ideas as in intellectually consistent?

Anything can be intellectually consistent if you accept the premises. Do you really believe, that religiosity is first and foremost an intellectual thingy? I know, that many ardent believers want to argue so, but do you buy their claims? Do you think that atheism is first and foremost an intellectual thingy?[/quote]

I am convinced that Sam Harris (http://www.samharris.org/) is right when he argues that our respect for the religious feelings of other people make it very hard, if not impossible, to deal with problems like muslim terrorism…

It is never Islam, oh no, it is Islamofascism, fundamental Islam, muslim extremism…

The idea that religion could be the problem is rarely discussed, because we all know that religion is automatically a good thing.

You can see it on this board how even a little religion can poison the mind:

Even though she is probably closer to the text, closer to the spirit of the OT and absolutely consistent in her ideas, people think that she is not a true Christian, because true Christianity is something that must be felt somehow, but when they use the bible to argue their point it suddenly becomes the WORD OF THE LORD again.

Those people are hypocrits, a suicide bomber is a true believer…

He believes there is a God, he believes that to die in a Djihad is holy, therefore he blows himself up…

I know that religions is allmost pure emotion and no reason (though I never had an atheist feeling) but as long as religious people don`t, the violent insane people can hide among the mildly insane people.

47

[quote]orion wrote:
I know that religions is allmost pure emotion and no reason (though I never had an atheist feeling) but as long as religious people don`t, the violent insane people can hide among the mildly insane people.

[/quote]

You honestly walk around thinking that anyone who believes in God is insane? That would make the majority of the people in the world “insane” which would truly make you the insane one. If everyone else is “insane” but you, then automatically, the minority becomes the one who is truly “insane”.

48

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
I know that religions is allmost pure emotion and no reason (though I never had an atheist feeling) but as long as religious people don`t, the violent insane people can hide among the mildly insane people.

You honestly walk around thinking that anyone who believes in God is insane? That would make the majority of the people in the world “insane” which would truly make you the insane one. If everyone else is “insane” but you, then automatically, the minority becomes the one who is truly “insane”.[/quote]

Let us not call it insane then, but irrational…

No, I actually cannot do that, because even though we all have irrational beliefs we are not even aware of, religion means embracing that irrationality…

I would only be insane in your example, if you could actually vote on what is true, which is not possible…

Unless, of course, witchhunts count as “voting”…

49

[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
I know that religions is allmost pure emotion and no reason (though I never had an atheist feeling) but as long as religious people don`t, the violent insane people can hide among the mildly insane people.

You honestly walk around thinking that anyone who believes in God is insane? That would make the majority of the people in the world “insane” which would truly make you the insane one. If everyone else is “insane” but you, then automatically, the minority becomes the one who is truly “insane”.

Let us not call it insane then, but irrational…

No, I actually cannot do that, because even though we all have irrational beliefs we are not even aware of, religion means embracing that irrationality…

I would only be insane in your example, if you could actually vote on what is true, which is not possible…

Unless, of course, witchhunts count as “voting”…[/quote]

No, let’s stick with “insanity”. You wrote that because it was your first thought. That says a lot. More than anything, it means you think you are more intelligent or better put together than someone who believes in a higher power. Has it ever occured to you that the dingbats you probably even associate with religion are simply the loudest? What do you honestly know about the way I think? How can you judge something so blatantly you clearly don’t even understand? This is why I was so against what Steve was doing. People like that don’t represent me, and the moment you think you are better than me or anyone else simply because you choose to not believe in a higher power is the moment a problem arises. You aren’t better than me. You aren’t more “sane” simply because of a choice you made.

50

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Applesauce wrote:
What a nutjob. One look in that woman’s eyes is all it takes to see that she’s a loon. Sadly, there are people like that everywhere, but thankfully they’re all talk. Could you imagine if the Christian extremists carried out their hatred like Islamic extremists?

Uh, dude…?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing[/quote]

Perhaps I should have clarified some. I know there are a few scattered incidents, like abortion clinic bombings and such, but not on the scale of Islamic extremists that we hear about on the news every week. In other words, they’re not blowing themselves up in crowded places every week to get their point across.

If you’re using Islamic estremists as a measuring tool, then no. However, relative to the “Normal Christians” they are, in my opinion. Having grown up in a Southern Baptist Church I can tell you viewpoints like theirs ARE extreme. Thus, in my eyes, they are Christian Extremists. Saying things like “Thank God for dead soldiers” is not typical Christian behavior. Most Christians I know are nice, caring people. Although they can be condescending and judgemental at times, they don’t preach hate and they don’t blow themselves up.

51

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
I know that religions is allmost pure emotion and no reason (though I never had an atheist feeling) but as long as religious people don`t, the violent insane people can hide among the mildly insane people.

You honestly walk around thinking that anyone who believes in God is insane? That would make the majority of the people in the world “insane” which would truly make you the insane one. If everyone else is “insane” but you, then automatically, the minority becomes the one who is truly “insane”.

Let us not call it insane then, but irrational…

No, I actually cannot do that, because even though we all have irrational beliefs we are not even aware of, religion means embracing that irrationality…

I would only be insane in your example, if you could actually vote on what is true, which is not possible…

Unless, of course, witchhunts count as “voting”…

No, let’s stick with “insanity”. You wrote that because it was your first thought. That says a lot. More than anything, it means you think you are more intelligent or better put together than someone who believes in a higher power. Has it ever occured to you that the dingbats you probably even associate with religion are simply the loudest? What do you honestly know about the way I think? How can you judge something so blatantly you clearly don’t even understand? This is why I was so against what Steve was doing. People like that don’t represent me, and the moment you think you are better than me or anyone else simply because you choose to not believe in a higher power is the moment a problem arises. You aren’t better than me. You aren’t more “sane” simply because of a choice you made.[/quote]

The choice you made, if that is a choice, is to believe without any evidence whatsoever.

The choice I made is not to believe in the light of the absence of any physical evidence.

You are really telling me that you think that those two choices are equally valid?

What would you think of a doctor that treats his patients based on his believes that are backed with nothing?

52

[quote]orion wrote:
The choice you made, if that is a choice, is to believe without any evidence whatsoever. [/quote]

I have experiences in my life that have made me believe that what we see right in front of us isn’t all there is to life. That means, to me, it is not without any evidence whatsoever. I personally don’t believe in coincidence. I have met too many people in my life that I can look back and see that they were influential in getting me to certain points or different stages. Someone like you writes all of this off as chance and being meaningless. Someone like me sees purpose and design. For you to believe that a belief in design makes someone crazy is to believe falsely that you have all of the answers.

[quote]
You are really telling me that you think that those two choices are equally valid?[/quote]

Yes. Read above.

Obviously, his beliefs would NOT be backed with nothing. Many people don’t believe in acupuncture. Do you think someone skilled in that art has beliefs “backed in nothing”? The person who doesn’t believe in acupuncture simply doesn’t accept what he bases his belief on. It is a choice made.

People like you don’t dig deeper than pure fact and what you can see. Your imagination itself must be limited. Even Einstein believed in a higher power, but you see yourself as above us all. Why?

53

[quote]Professor X wrote:

People like you don’t dig deeper than pure fact and what you can see. Your imagination itself must be limited. Even Einstein believed in higher power, but you see yourself as above us all. Why? [/quote]

The “above” and “better” part comes from you, ask yourself why you think that someone who insists on reason must automatically feel superior…

I am pretty sure there are faith healers that think the same way about you…

And, to respond in kind, people like you do not even dig as deep as pure fact and use their unlimited imagination as an excuse for intellectual laziness…

Plus, the higher power Einstein believed in was hardly the God of a semitic nomad tribe…

Acupuncture works do some degree and yet we don`t know why, only that the traditional Chinese explanation for the why is BS.

Could well be that this is also true for religion; it apparently works sometimes but that hardly means there is an invisible man in the sky…

54

[quote]orion wrote:

The “above” and “better” part comes from you, ask yourself why you think that someone who insists on reason must automatically feel superior…[/quote]

Are you playing games now? If so, do better. You just called all people who believe in God insane, yet now you are asking why I think that YOU think you are above us? WTF?

[quote]
I am pretty sure there are faith healers that think the same way about you…

And, to respond in kind, people like you do not even dig as deep as pure fact and use their unlimited imagination as an excuse for intellectual laziness…[/quote]

What? I’m a doctor. I have done more research in labs than, no doubt, most of the people on this forum aside from the talents writers here, yet you are now going to tell me how intellectually lazy I am? Didn’t you just ask above why I think that YOU think you are above us? You keep giving me the proof of your thinking over and over. Simply because I believe in God, you have somehow come to the conclusion that I disregard facts. How stupid of you. What degree do you have that allows you to think you are so intellectually superior?

[quote]
Plus, the higher power Einstein believed in was hardly the God of a semitic nomad tribe…[/quote]

Please, go into detail.

[quote]
Acupuncture works do some degree and yet we don`t know why, only that the traditional Chinese explanation for the why is BS. [/quote]

Why is it BS?

[quote]
Could well be that this is also true for religion; it apparently works sometimes but that hardly means there is an invisible man in the sky… [/quote]

You would have to be quite small minded to think of this in terms of “invisible men”. I haven’t said anything like that. Was this an example of your intellectual superiority?

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

The “above” and “better” part comes from you, ask yourself why you think that someone who insists on reason must automatically feel superior…

Are you playing games now? If so, do better. You just called all people who believe in God insane, yet now you are asking why I think that YOU think you are above us? WTF?

I am pretty sure there are faith healers that think the same way about you…

And, to respond in kind, people like you do not even dig as deep as pure fact and use their unlimited imagination as an excuse for intellectual laziness…

What? I’m a doctor. I have done more research in labs than, no doubt, most of the people on this forum aside from the talents writers here, yet you are now going to tell me how intellectually lazy I am? Didn’t you just ask above why I think that YOU think you are above us? You keep giving me the proof of your thinking over and over. Simply because I believe in God, you have somehow come to the conclusion that I disregard facts. How stupid of you. What degree do you have that allows you to think you are so intellectually superior?

Plus, the higher power Einstein believed in was hardly the God of a semitic nomad tribe…

Please, go into detail.

Acupuncture works do some degree and yet we don`t know why, only that the traditional Chinese explanation for the why is BS.

Why is it BS?

Could well be that this is also true for religion; it apparently works sometimes but that hardly means there is an invisible man in the sky…

You would have to be quite small minded to think of this in terms of “invisible men”. I haven’t said anything like that. Was this an example of your intellectual superiority?[/quote]

The acupuncture thing is easy. Sticking needles into people does have some effects but apparently it does not really matter where you put them.

This was found out when German medical insurance companies tried to determine if they should pay for it or not.

Einstein:

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which has been systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

“My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement if life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.”

To the insanity part:

You are aware that psychotic people actually hear voices? True, they are only in their heads, but at least they hear them.

Those clinically insane people have actually more empirical data for their beliefs than you do.

Do you consider yourself “better” or “superior” to someone with a psychosis or just more in touch with reality?

56

[quote]orion wrote:
The acupuncture thing is easy. Sticking needles into people does have some effects but apparently it does not really matter where you put them.

This was found out when German medical insurances tried to determine if they should pay for it or not.
[/quote]

I would love to see the research backing that up. Clearly, it is unbaised.

I conceded on Einstein and am very open to knowledge I did not have previously.

[quote]To the insanity part:

You are aware that psychotic people actually hear voices? True, they are only in their heads, but at least they hear them.

Those clinically insane people have actually more empirical data for their beliefs than you do.

Do you consider yourself “better” or “superior” to someone with a psychosis or just more in touch with reality? [/quote]

Hearing voices is emperical data in regards to psychosis? The psychosis may be emperical data but not the voice. What does that have to do with a belief in design? It parallels the belief that everything that happens on this planet is the result of organized chaos. Do you have emperical proof that there is no design?

57

On Einstein, from minor research it appears that Atheists and Deists have completely thrown about what the man may have actually believed from random quotes. One of those :

“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings”

Wouldn’t seem to make him someone who simply could not entertain the thought of a higher power. To my understanding, later in life he found it difficult to believe in God while also balancing the existance of suffering in the world.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
On Einstein, from minor research it appears that Atheists and Deists have completely thrown about what the man may have actually believed from random quotes. One of those :

“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings”

Wouldn’t seem to make him someone who simply could not entertain the thought of a higher power. To my understanding, later in life he found it difficult to believe in God while also balancing the existance of suffering in the world.[/quote]

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_einstein.html

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Hearing voices is emperical data in regards to psychosis? The psychosis may be emperical data but not the voice. What does that have to do with a belief in design? It parallels the belief that everything that happens on this planet is the result of organized chaos. Do you have emperical proof that there is no design?[/quote]

I do not know how design comes into this, but if you argue that an apparent design needs a designer, you are

A) officialy a Deist and, if you also believe we can understand this design using reason, probably a de-facto freemason and

B) it does only take the problem one step further, because you have no empirical evidence that there is a “design”, so there may be or not be a need for a designer, as much as there may or may not be a God…

60

[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Hearing voices is emperical data in regards to psychosis? The psychosis may be emperical data but not the voice. What does that have to do with a belief in design? It parallels the belief that everything that happens on this planet is the result of organized chaos. Do you have emperical proof that there is no design?

I do not know how design comes into this, but if you argue that an apparent design needs a designer, you are

A) officialy a Deist and, if you also believe we can understand this design using reason, probably a de-facto freemason and

B) it does only take the problem one step further, because you have no empirical evidence that there is a “design”, so there may be or not be a need for a designer, as much as there may or may not be a God…

[/quote]

I am failing to see what your issue is with my beliefs or why you see them as inferior to you or your “non-belief”. All that we feel, see and respond to isn’t just based on “emperical evidence”. Emperical evidence shows there isn’t much difference between our response to chocolate and our response to “love”. Where is the emperical evidence that “love” exists?