Thanks for you input (which was probably word for word what I was expecting).
I do feel fine recovery wise ( Just a weak mofo atm) and diet wise my guts are still in a place of asking for more food so still far off from being unable to eat.
Just to clarify: it’s not the EATING of the food I’m referring to: it’s the passing of it.
I have a voracious appetite. I’ve only been full 3 times in my life. I will be thinking about my next meal WHILE EATING my current one.
But, eventually, I just can’t handle having to pass all the food through my body.
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I don’t have much to offer for advice that differs from what others have said.
Wendler says that accessory work is fine, so long as it does not interfere with your main work. If your main work is suffering and you’re putting in some significant assistance work for the same muscle groups - it makes sense that your assistance is bogging down your main work.
Take a week or two with no assistance work for those muscles, evaluate your progress on the lagging main work, and you’ll have some good insight from there.
I have the memory of a goldfish so excuse me for anything that is inaccurate here, but I’ve always been curious how you manage to weigh what I did in 6th grade (and I’m not tall). I mean no offense by these question:
- is your goal strength driven or hypertrophy?
- Your log title says you are trying to gain weight. Is this still the case?
- Are you gaining weight?
- How much are you eating?
Not improper at all to ask for input.
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No offense taken. I am actually smaller than I was when I was at 6th grade age.
Short answer would be I have had an eating disorder for most of my adult life. Being a fat child (200lbs by 13/14) and then getting into boxing once I started losing it meant I grew into adulthood being scared of being fat and constantly trying to get as light as possible under the pretense of dropping into the lowest division possible.
Even now that I am aware of it, I will get moments of body dysmorphia which creeps in and which finds a way to justify itself as a ‘small cut to trim fat and bulk for longer’ but which ends up going longer (hence the recent period of dieting).
Overall, I would say strength. Right now, hypertrophy because I feel a period of gaining will pay dividends later. Can’t really get strong if I weigh the same as a teenage woman.
I am trying to gain weight right now
I am slowly gaining weight (roughly 1lb-1.5lb a month)
I am eating 3,000 calories. On days were I go MMA I eat minimum 3k and then eat extra depending on feel/ how hard the sessions were
Ah I think perhaps wires have been crossed due to that comment I made yesterday. I don’t think the main work on Incline press day is suffering or regressing per say.
I’m weak in general ( as you can witness) and with 5/3/1 having the add weight every cycle I meant I’ve ran into a situation where my Incline press TM becomes too high faster than other lifts hence needs to be pinged down.
Also doesn’t help that my right shoulder sucks and the issue of the last few times going MMA resulting in niggles around the AC joint.
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That’s around 145cal surplus daily, which may as well be a rounding error… Like if I’m eating a snack that’s less than 100cal, I don’t even count it. The 70 calories in my AM coffee? I don’t count it. The 50-100cal in my lowcal sauces to put down plain chicken breast? I don’t count it.
Macro counting is often regarded to have a 10% inaccuracy when using the most accurate methods of measuring. So I gotta ask, are you intentionally eating in like the world’s smallest surplus because of BD, or is there a better reason?
Congrats on making the progress you have with your body dysmorphia. You and I are alike there, except that I’m never satisfied with the amount of muscle I have (despite being pretty hyooge compared to all normies and most gym-goers). IDK how I’m ever going to get past mine, time will tell.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I don’t see the need to change anything here. If you’re making a shitload of progress in one lift, even if it’s significantly more than others, I don’t see that as a reason to slow down the progress on that lift.
I definitely misunderstood the situation you and @cdep89 were discussing.
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I am intentionally trying to gain slowly to avoid excess fat gain and gaining at what I’ve seen as the recommended amount to gain per month… Which is in all honesty probably the justification my BD uses
I am however not against eating more
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Since you tagged me, I will say that this so completely flies in the face of how I approach training and nutrition that my advice may not be very viable.
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To add to this.
This only because the work being done is allowing this approach.
I fully intent to eat more when the work demands it but at the moment I feel it doesn’t.
However the great thing here is accountability and if this is my issues with weight gain holding me back and making me justify it… I can push through that mental barrier.
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I feel like eating more when it demands it happens is great: my issue is a focus on avoiding excess fat gain.
To quote acclaimed philosopher Robert Hill
I don’t believe there IS “excess fat gain” when one’s goal is getting bigger and stronger.
Food is an agent of recovery. We eat it to recover from the training we do. Part of that recovery is the creation of muscle, and part of that is the creation of fat.
If we are gaining fat, that means we are recovering from the training. That is a GOOD thing! If we are gaining “excess fat”, that means we are REALLY recovering! How outstanding!
The WORST thing I could do during a hard training block with a goal of gaining muscle is NOT recover. That would be a total waste of training time, energy and effort. To OVER recover? That’s outstanding: I’m making the most of the training.
Losing fat is so so SO stupidly easy, ESPECIALLY after a hard block of muscle gaining, that it’s a vacation, and you are clearly a dude that is good at losing fat. You’ll get to fall back on your strengths for a little bit and shed any fluff you gained when the time comes.
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Interested to see where this was recommended.
Thibbs recommends 300-700 surplus daily for a controlled gain.
^Underrated article
EDIT:
I know thibbs isn’t the end-all be-all on this stuff, but I think I know a lot about this stuff… then I see thibbs talking about it and realize I know nothing.
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Yeah I took “Incline pressing is becoming a problem lift as it hasn’t really progressed in the last year” as something that too much volume/recovery might be getting in the way of. If you’re happy though, no problems.
I mimic the other guys on the food stuff by the way. I’ve seen a lot of sources online saying things like “a lb a month” too, and sure, that may minimize fat gain. Worrying about that small amount of a surplus is a ridiculous thing to try and measure for most people though. The way I see it that helps me is this…
An extra 100 calories a day would take 35 days to equal a pound of fat gain (3500 calories). That pound can be obliterated in about 4 days on a mini-cut. Why potentially miss out on gains for something that can be negated so quickly?
Double your current surplus at the very least and you suddenly have more wiggle room for error. If I was in your surplus I’d constantly be worried about ruining it by not licking my plate clean or spending an extra 20 mins walking around a supermarket. Nobody wants to be that diligent. I aim for 300-500, but I often reach a bit higher than that and do not worry about it (which seems to fit with the C.Thib article above which is nice).
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I knew I had a meme for that somewhere…
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I disagree with so much of what you’ve said…I don’t know why because it all makes sense but I just disagree.
That means my logical thinking is not responsible for me disagreeing and that it’s the old me shining through and it’s purely an emotional response out of fear.
More food it is!!
Thanks for your input and for stopping me wasting time in the gym . You too @Andrewgen_Receptors and thanks @cdep89 for being the spark of this convo
I’ll add in more ’ baseline’ food and continue adding food on top of that for MMA training days
Speaking of MMA I managed
1 hour of grappling
1 hour of muay Thai
AND NO SHOULDER ISSUES!!!
Today’s been a good good day!!
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7WP PR week day 6 (Pressing and cleaning)
Overhead press: 20kg/44lbs (the bar) x5, 22.5kg/50lbs x5, 25kg/55lbs x5, 27.5kg/61lbs x3, 30kg/66lbs x3,3, 32.5kg/72lbs x1,1 35kg/77lbs x1,1
Power cleans: 30kg/66lbs x5, 35kg/77lbs x5, 40kg/88lbs x5,4, 45kg/99lbs x3, 47.5kg/105lbs x2,1 and 50kg/110lbs x1,1,1
NOTES
This was a surprisingly good session. Technique with the pressing has never been better and I feel like it’s starting to fall into place. I also managed the 50kg/110lb power clean goal I was going for and it wasn’t too difficult. Really was a day where I was more focused on changing weight and getting reps in on one lift and then the other with minimal rest that I didn’t realise at the time that I was breezing through weights I usually would struggle with.
So I have no idea if it’s MMA last night, if it’s me committing to eating more or if it was today’s little workout which went surprisingly well but I am STARVING.
Luckily my gym is 2 minutes from Asda (Walmart for the US readers) and by the time I need to go to work after the gym the morning workers have just finished reducing the food that expires today and shelving it so I managed to get myself a cheap extra meal. 500g of full fat Greek yogurt, a little bag of mixed nuts and three bananas should do the trick and help keep me fed until my ‘1st lunch’.
Tomorrow we squat! So I will make sure the weight belt is at the right hole, that my wrists are adequately mobilized and I’m going for 10
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Thanks for the tag, @hustlinghat93. I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner… Crazy days.
Honestly, though, Pwn covered it all.
I still have a hard time getting my head in the right place sometimes, and I still have a hard time—mentally and physically—consuming the right amount of food, but…
We just gotta keep chipping away.
So keep on keepin’ on, my friend. We’ll get there.
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7WP PR week day 7 (Squats)
Squats: 85kg/187lbs x5, 97.5kg/215lbs x5, 110kg/242lbs x5 and 122.5kg/270lbx x10
Hip thrusts: 1x20 with 60kg/132lbs and 1x10 with 110kg/242lbs
Walking lunges (30kg/66lbs Barbell): 2x20 steps (10 each leg)
Weighted Dips: 5x10 with 6.25kg/14lbs
Weighted Pull ups: 50 reps done in 8 sets with 5kg/11lbs (1x5reps, 5x6 reps, 1x7 reps and 1x8 reps)
NOTES
So I got the goal of 10 reps with the TM top set which I am happy about. Actually I am very happy with that considering my right foot is in pain and slightly swollen (Kicked an elbow accidentally) and I kinda tweaked my knee yesterday when getting heel hooked. I honestly was not expecting to be able to get 10 with the prior sets feeling very uncomfortable but when I put the belt on for the top set and set up I just felt secure, pain free and I honestly believe those were 10 of the cleanest reps I have it in a while.
Anyways currently waiting eating my way through homemade burritos ( Heart, Rice, Veg and wrap) in preparation for MMA later today. Depending on the duration of MMA I may have to spend most of the night eating but that is the price to pay I guess
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BBB (Malcolm-X) cycle 2 week 1 day 1 (Bench)
Throws + jumps
Bench: 45kg/99lbs x5, 50kg/110lbs x5, 57.5kg/127lbs x5 | 45kg/99lbs x20,15 and 15
Bent over DB Row: 2x10 with 30kg/66lbs and 2x15 with 25kg/55lbs
Seated DB shoulder press: 12.5kg/27lbs x 15,12,12,11
Weighted Crunches: 50 total reps over 3 sets
NOTES
So today was a decent day. I went to the MMA gym yesterday and ended up doing:
- 1 hour of grappling training followed by 16 minutes of situational rolling and then 12 minutes of live rolling
- 1 Hour of boxing followed by 7/8 rounds of sparring
Which was 3 hours worth of work in addition to the squat session. Suffice to say I woke up kinda bruised up, sore and had minor shoulder pains (AC joint area again).
Despite the above todays supplemental work went better than it did on week 2 of last cycle with the same weight. Today non of the sets needed a rest pause, the sets were finished in less time and I just felt stronger.
Except for that the other work was just the boring usual.
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BBB (Malcolm-X) cycle 2 week 1 day 2 (Just some work)
Overhead press: 20kg/44lbs (the bar) x8, 25kg/55lbs x5,5, 30kg/66lbs x3,3,2, 35kg/77lbs x1,1,1
Power cleans: 30kg/66lbs x10, 35kg/77lbs x10, 40kg/88lbs x5,3, 45kg/99lbs x2,2 and 50kg/110lbs x1,1
Rows: 2x20 with 40kg/88lbs, 2x20 with 45kg/99lbs and 2x10 with 50kg/110lbs
NOTES
Not much to report. Still using Monday as a day to ‘grease the groove’ and get the heart rate up, did everything above with as little rest as possible.
Tomorrow we deadlift. I may use my straps for the Malcolm-X sets just so I can eliminate grip fatigue from the equation and push the intensity of those sets with the posterior chain being able to push extra reps
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BBB (Malcolm-X) cycle 2 week 1 day 3 (Deadlifts)
Throws + jumps
Deadlifts: 90kg/198lbs x5, 102.5kg/226lbs x5, 117.5kg/259lbs x5 | 2x25 with 90kg/198lbs
Goodmornings: 1x20 with 40kg/88lbs
Goblet squats: 3x10 with 40kg/88lbs
Weighted Dips: 5x10 with 6.25kg/14lbs
Weighted Pull ups: 50 reps done in 8 sets with 5kg/11lbs (3x7reps,4x6reps, 1x5reps)
NOTES
The good days continue. Don’t want to act like the supplemental work is a representation of strength increase because I did use wraps on those sets but I am very happy to get 2x25reps on deadlifts.
My girlfriend hit me with the worst formatted compliment which made me go through a range of emotions while she finished the sentence. It was “Your looking good. Skinnier ( 
) but like more muscular ( 
)”
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Heh, been there. I was going to reply by describing how them kind of compliments can mess with you a bit, but I can’t sum it up better than you did just with the emoticons. 
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