Just heard back on my provider on this. He said if I’m not trying to conceive for 6 months or more, to eliminate HCG and increase testosterone dosage by 10% each injection. So from .40 ml to .45 roughly.
As far as what the other provider said about staying off testosterone for 6 days before lab work to get a true representation of where your testosterone labs are, do most do this before lab work? My current provider didn’t suggest this.
We just get the blood drawn on injection day, before injection. You want it at it’s lowest point, not it’s highest as the peak is very short-lived.
This provider just doesn’t understand pharmacodynamics and is complicating things, by increasing the dosage by 10% every injection, this will ensure you will not reach a stable state any time soon, the goal is to reach a stable state as a quickly as possible and to do this you must inject the same dosage for 40 days.
This isn’t ideal, skipping your TRT injections and doing labs 6 days later will not represent your current protocol, if you want to see where your levels are when being consistent with your injections, then you must test at trough without skipping your injections.
You do realize that hcg is not needed to keep fertility. You can stay infertile and when the time comes to become fertile you start HCG. How many times I’ve seen this discussed on the internet and these forums. I also know Many men who has no issues becoming fertile when starting hcg after years a of non use.
You really got to get it through your head that your doctor is an idiot if he doesn’t know this.
I mean come on man. Keep listening to the doctor who has no solutions and don’t take our observation seriously.
HCG causes side effects. The chemical in hcg seems to be the cause majority of the time. Get off HCG for several weeks and you will know if that’s the cause. For now you are taking enough T to produce a positive effect.
An educated hormone therapy expert knows the truth behind fertility. Your doctor is the type that has not done further education on the subject. He meddles in heresay and opinions. He does not go into the world and find answers for his patients. If he did, you would be off hcg until it’s needed.
Make one change not 5. I would be surprised if this helps. Hcg made me miserable and within 5 days off I felt better. I hate that shit.
@TRT_Phoenix I did end up doing the 4-point saliva cortisol test. All of the tests came back in normal range. Therefore, that has been eliminated.
@systemlord , @enackers , @hardartery I’ve dropped the HCG as of 2 weeks ago. I did increase testosterone from .80 weekly (2x .40ml) to 1ml weekly (every day small injections). Thyroid was also increased after another provider looked at my labs before taking thyroid medication, seeing a mid-range free T3, and low free T4 as well. So far, I would say I feel better since the adjustment as far as energy and metabolism goes. Libido the same.
Sleep is very bad, but that was the case before, but it may have gotten slightly worse. I will say that I seem to be able function better than before even with less sleep. The lack of sleep is certainly a concern though. One completely new thing is acne is surfacing on face, and a little on back and shoulders. I’m guessing this is because of the increase dose of testosterone? I’ll see if some cream clears it up, which is typically the case for me if I have an unusual breakout.
Again, I appreciate the input as I try to dial in, to the point where I benefit in all areas, rather than a couple, while suffering in a couple others.
You’ve really thrown your body a hormonal curveball, you ceased the HCG, increase testosterone and increased thyroid hormone. It’s going to take 6-8 weeks or longer for your body to adapt to all of these changes.
There is your libido problem, bad sleep equals low or no libido at all. You find out what’s causing your poor sleep, you just may find your libido. I also don’t think your sleep problems are testosterone or estrogen related.
Sleep is the first thing to improve for me, after only two weeks on TRT I was able to stop all sleep aids and I actually started yawning again long before it’s time for bed.
Answer me: what time do you go to bed and what time do you wake up?
@roscoe88 - I typically fall asleep around 10pm and get out of bed around 6:30am. However, I’d say 5 nights a week, that involves waking up in the middle of the night and struggling to get back to sleep for 3-4 hours. The nights that I sleep through the night, I’m not doing anything differently than the ones I don’t. Lately I’ve been taking sleep aids, as it seems I will always struggle to get a full night’s rest without it.
@systemlord I was having sleep issues before I ever started testosterone injections. When I started treatment, my provider started me on just Clomid and some supplements. I do not know what did it, but that was the best deep sleep I ever had during that time. The clomid was the only thing I dropped, and the sleep wasn’t nearly as deep. That protocol wasn’t really improving anything else outside of the sleep. They started me on thyroid medication, which then did improve things, but sleep began to gradually get worse. When I began Test+HCG, sleep was already bad. When I dropped HCG and increased test, sleep just remained bad.
I took a sleep aid last night, which got me a full night’s rest and feeling fine today. Obviously, I’d rather not rely on a crutch like this to normalize my sleep.
Any thoughts on the new acne showing up? Too much of an increase in testosterone? I am seeing better results as far as energy and metabolism since the change. Been on this protocol for 2 weeks. Sounds like it is recommended to stay consistent on one protocol for a good 8 weeks?
I’ve had the same lousy sleep issues you’ve had. Rarely do i feel rested or that i get deep enough sleep.
Something i read, and i’ve been trying with success is to stay up later. This way, when i do go to bed, my body is wanting sleep more, and produces a deeper sleep. Sounds counterintuitive, but it’s been working.
Generally i’d go to be at about 9pm and get up at 5 or 6am. I’ve been now staying up until about 1030 and getting better sleep.
It’s called sleep deprivation for deeper sleep. It may help.
I’ve tried melatonin at one point, which worsened sleep. Sure, i’d fall asleep like a baby, but i’d wake as soon as the melatonin ran it’s course.
The body will send testosterone down other pathways in order to maintain homeostasis, your dosage is probably too high. I would stay the course for now and see if things improve.
Some need longer than 8 weeks.
Thats great to hear. Now I highly suggest you stay away from any new suggestions. Take your doses as prescribed and stay with them for the next 3-4 months. The thyroid will do its work fast as you have noticed. The T will produce its benefits in a few months and it will continue to make you feel better and healthier as it works on the body over the next year.
The cortisol test suggestion was over complicated and that guy made that suggestion based on horrible information. With hormones its best to raise dose until one feels the benefits .Obviously there comes a point where its no longer a hormone problem, but more often it can be resolved with dosing if you have low hormones.
I hope you see now that this is a simple process. It sounds like all you needed was more thyroid. I had an issue where TRT didn’t work until I started thyroid and then it all came together.
While I am seeing some improvements now, my sleep is still very bad. I use a sleep aid (a little melatonin and other natural things) to get to sleep. Sometimes WITH this, I sleep well. Sometimes even with this, I wake up in the middle of the night and can’t get back to sleep. It’s gotten to the point where I never trust a full night’s rest without it, and am thinking about going back on CBD oil, which helped my sleep in the past. I’d prefer not to have to rely on something though. Will staying on my protocol improve sleep overtime?
How long have you been in trt now and with the latest change? Also do you inject daily or weekly or what?
Usually people who have had problems with sleep in the past have issues on TRT. Just like anxiety . For many it usually passes once they stabilize and they sleep like a baby.
Tried working out and exhausting yourself?
I have issues with sleep but I’m sure it’s for other reasons. If I skip a dose because I forgot I still can’t sleep some nights.
@enackers I have now been on TRT for 19 weeks total. As stated previously, I was not seeing any benefit until about 3 weeks ago, after I dropped HCG, and increased T and thyroid. So not sure what began to help, given the shotgun approach to changes. I was injecting 2x per week, but as of 3 weeks ago I began injecting daily.
I had sleep problems prior to TRT. My sleep issues were the same whether I was doing injections 2x per week, or daily.
I workout 6x per week, in the morning. Push myself to exhaustion during the workout, but am energized after. This energizes me throughout the day. Often I’ll go for a calm walk in the evening.
ALSO - If doing daily injections, should I skip my morning injection on my next labs? One of the providers still insists no T injections for at least 6 days before labs, otherwise the lab numbers will be inflated. However, it seems like no one here skips their injections the week of new labs?
Yah sounds like you just need to get that sleep figured out. Testosterone and thyroid definitely will cause you to have more energy. Try takin the thyroid med earlier in the day and see if that helps.
I would skip it just to keep numbers low so he doesn’t lower your dose (doesn’t sound like he will). As long as its working, the levels dont matter as much. You know what dose works. Do what doc says. You are lucky he doesn’t want to test your numbers at peak, and potentially suggest you have too much T and to lower your dose. That would suck. Ive heard so many men have this issue.
if you are taking it daily, I would just wait 2 days before taking my injection and then go get labs done. it should be low. If he says anything just tell him you decided to do daily and its working .
So it’s been almost 5 weeks since I’ve dropped HCG and increase T from .80ml to 1ml per week. I don’t seem to be feeling a difference. I will say I’ve noticed some difference since the Thyroid increase. Weight has been a bit more responsive to come off. With the elimination of HCG and increase in T, I definitely got more acne. My libido is the same and one change is my climaxes are less pleasureable. I will mention that my wife is 8.5 months pregnant, so I imagine loss of libido is common in this case, but I don’t even have the urge to release myself. My sleep is still very bad. I take pills to get a full night’s rest, and even have insomnia with that. I’m unsure what to make of this, and when I should begin to see some positive changes?
One thing I’ve noticed, is my heart rate runs higher. I’m guessing from the thyroid medication. Not dangeously high by any means. I always felt like my heart rate ran low. Anything outside of an all out sprint, and my heart rate was hard to elevate. Typically strength sessions would keep my heart rate below 50%, while maybe spiking to 70%-ish very briefly on a heavy squat set or something. I assume this is a good thing, as I feel like my heart rate should elevate more when exercise? I feel like this is an indicator my metabolism is higher?
Labs from 2/17/20
Total Test - > 1500 (264-916 ng/dL)
Free Test - 41.9 (8.7-25.1pg/mL)
Estadiol sensitive 42.8 (8.0 - 35.0)
SHBG 57.9 (16.5 - 55.9)
Free T3 - 4.7 (2.2-4.4)
DHEA 150 (31 - 701)
For these labs, my protocol was:
.4ml 200mg/ml Test Cyp & 400UI HCG 2x per week + 2 grains armour thyroid/35mcg cytomel
Labs from 5/29/20
Total test 1309
Free Test 15.3
Estradial sensitive - 28.7
(SHBG not taken, but likely high due to Total T/Free T ratio. LabCorp mistakenly missed lab)
T3 - 193 (71-180) (Free T3 not taken,LabCorp mistakenly missed Free T3)
Free T4 - 0.72 (0.82 - 1.77)
IGF-1 - 165 (88-246)
CRP - 45 (0-10)
Iron - 39 (38-169)
My protocol leading up to this was:
1ml WEEKLY TOTAL 200mg/ml Test Cyp (split up in DAILY injections) + 2.5 grains armour thyroid/50mcg cytomel
I believe there is a problem going on here outside of my hormones. My main symptoms now are my inability to lose weight, despite training 6x per week and calculated calories, and I have no libido. The sleep and energy has improved (I’ve been lessed burnt out from work, which likely is to credit). The CRP suggest inflammation. I don’t know what affects this may be having, or remedies there are out there for this. The low iron is surprising, since I eat A LOT of meat. Seems like something is not being absorbed? The low T4 is odd, as I take 2.5 grains of armour daily, and in the past, it has been higher (but not optimal) with less of a dose.
I began having these symptoms in 2018, and my initial labs then did show low T/low E/High SHBG/Not optimal thyroid. Therefore, I thought this treatment was the answer to the weight and libido. However, with my numbers looking good and me still having these issues, I feel like there has to be a different culprit. Any insights on what this may be, and the remedy for it, would be great. I will mention I eat clean, dont drink/do drugs, and exercise reguarly.
I’ve been on TRT & Thyroid treatment since December 2019 (was just thyroid prior to that). Previously, my numbers were looking good, but I still had symptoms (Weight gain, low libido, bad sleep, low energy). I was encouraged to drop HCG to “dial in”, and have been without HCG for 10 months, and just Testosterone Cyp (1ml weekly, split up in daily injections).
At this point, I have an appointment with a Functional medicine doctor, as I feel there must be something else going on. This may be a long shot, but I will also say that I urinate more than anyone I’ve ever known (up to 4 times an hour). I’m seeing a urologist about this. I’m thinking maybe there is something going on there that play into my current symptoms as well?
Any insights are appreciated.
Bro free test and estrogen are low. Your previous labs looked better. You need to get free t into the 20s. I’d shoot for 25 if I was starting TRT with what I know today and sit there for several months.
Thyroid helps with metabolism, but you need more free t to help build muscle and burn more fat. Estrogen burns fat as well. One of the hidden secrets most BB won’t know. Read the literature on this and you’ll see what I’m saying about day and estrogen. Same with libido and etc.
You simply need more. Don’t go into the 40s this time. If I was on 200mg with these labs I would try 250. It seems your body just needs more. Or baby dose the hcg if they won’t give you more.
I think when you get into a good range of free t, you will feel better. I see no reason to guess about your issues. First make the free t higher, and be patient as you have been.
You really need to test free t3 and reverse t3 if your gonna be on thyroid meds. Ffs you very well might have high rt3 that’s negating t3. The doc you are using really has no clue what they are doing. It’s obvious looking at thyroid tests they ran .
Guys on TRT usually feel way better when estrogen is in the 35 or higher. Free t increases as well obviously.
Symptoms are probably related to hormones.
I was planning on adding back HCG (.400IU 2x per week) and dialing Test back to .9ml per week.
For inflammation, they are prescribing Low Dose Naltrexone. I’ve researched it, and it says around 20-40% people see great results from it. I’m wondering if others have experience with this, or anything else with inflammation?