8am cortisol needs to be in the 75%-100% of the range to be ideal (at least in US ranges). you are at 66% which isn’t too bad, but with all of your symptoms may still need to be addressed. low cortisol causes higher E2 and thyroid issues. when will the saliva tests come in?
300iu HCG may be too high for you. HCG can drive excess E2 for some. Why not try 200iu for a bit and see how you feel?
excess E2 symptoms can block high DHT benefits.
the recommendations for thyroid tests from the lab (or government) are just insane. DO NOT Test for this or that unless blah blah blah. Only go by lab ranges (even though the ranges are wrong according to even the most conservative medical associations here in the US). State Run Health Insurance = scary.
When on TRT, the ‘recommended LH replacement dose of hCG’ can easily be way more than what is required to keep the testes healthy. Serum T levels are supported by refined T doses in any case. We really do not know what the minimum doses are to support the testes. And if we did, it would probably be highly variable from one guy to another, due to different intrinsic differences and varying amounts of age impaired function.
So an individual would need to try different doses even if we had good data. The hCG research from 2005 showed that 125iu produced ITT 25% less than baseline *. 125iu would probably be a good dose to try if one has any negative issues from hCG; one of which might be the cost. 125iu with a 10,000iu vial would last too long, one would need to use 5,000iu vials.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Now I see that page. No ranges for cholesterol. You converted ranges? You need at least 20mg lovastatin I guess.
No anastrozole?
You might have lower E2 with less hCG. Try 125 or 150iu and use T injections to obtain T.
[/quote]
Yes, I converted - they didn’t provide a range for cholesterol, I just converted the measured numbers to conventional units from standard units.
I recently tried dropping anastrozole and moving to an EOD schedule, with my theory that lower injection amounts might lower E2 spikes. Obviously this experiment will need to end and I’ll have to go on anastrozole. That TT number is only about 640 in conventional units - why would my system be dumping so much into E2?
My concern with lowering hCG is my upcoming IVF appointment and potentially lowering my already severely low count. I will be able to do this after March, though.
you are taking too much Testosterone (above your personal genetic ideal levels)
you do not have sufficient cortisol to cope with the increase in testosterone (do your body dumps the extra T into E2).
you are taking something else that is driving increased aromatase (like possibly DHEA or too much HCG)
other things??
also your body starts increasing CHOL to provide additional raw material into the hormone synthesis chain. It makes me wonder what your Pregnenolone levels look like (not that you can test for that in Canada).
[quote]KSman wrote:
From another post I made today:
When on TRT, the ‘recommended LH replacement dose of hCG’ can easily be way more than what is required to keep the testes healthy. Serum T levels are supported by refined T doses in any case. We really do not know what the minimum doses are to support the testes. And if we did, it would probably be highly variable from one guy to another, due to different intrinsic differences and varying amounts of age impaired function.
So an individual would need to try different doses even if we had good data. The hCG research from 2005 showed that 125iu produced ITT 25% less than baseline *. 125iu would probably be a good dose to try if one has any negative issues from hCG; one of which might be the cost. 125iu with a 10,000iu vial would last too long, one would need to use 5,000iu vials.
[quote]PureChance wrote:
You will have excess E2 IF:
you are taking too much Testosterone (above your personal genetic ideal levels)
you do not have sufficient cortisol to cope with the increase in testosterone (do your body dumps the extra T into E2).
you are taking something else that is driving increased aromatase (like possibly DHEA or too much HCG)
other things??
also your body starts increasing CHOL to provide additional raw material into the hormone synthesis chain. It makes me wonder what your Pregnenolone levels look like (not that you can test for that in Canada).
[/quote]
I’m quite interested in pregnenolone too. I am going to ask for progesterone, not that it’s a replacement test.
Question - it was my understanding that 100mg per week should be enough to get most men into the 900TT range - what would prevent that? I guess I could be in that range actually, as this was at the bottom of my curve, but I’m not sure how flat T levels should be on an EOD schedule.
the problem is there is no uniform rule. HRT truly is more art than science because we are all so different genetically.
Some have super livers that clear things out of their body extremely quickly. Some even need to do daily shots (I think that I personally would have to look at trying out pellets before I subjected myself to daily shots). others have slow systems and even low doses tend to build up in them over time.
I think low iron/ferritin can cause problems with cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone levels (if I am remembering things correctly).
and just because most can get to 800-900 with 100mg weekly doesn’t mean that everyone can. once you get your E2 under control, why not test out taking slightly higher doses (i.e. 110mg a week for a bit, then maybe 120mg a week). Just go slow.
I believe that high E2 can cause high SHBG which can then cause your system to clear T out faster.
[quote]PureChance wrote:
the problem is there is no uniform rule. HRT truly is more art than science because we are all so different genetically.
Some have super livers that clear things out of their body extremely quickly. Some even need to do daily shots (I think that I personally would have to look at trying out pellets before I subjected myself to daily shots). others have slow systems and even low doses tend to build up in them over time.
I think low iron/ferritin can cause problems with cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone levels (if I am remembering things correctly).
and just because most can get to 800-900 with 100mg weekly doesn’t mean that everyone can. once you get your E2 under control, why not test out taking slightly higher doses (i.e. 110mg a week for a bit, then maybe 120mg a week). Just go slow.
I believe that high E2 can cause high SHBG which can then cause your system to clear T out faster.[/quote]
Interesting. I am awaiting SHBG results now, another piece to the puzzle. What’s confusing to me is that way back when this started, 400IU of hCG 3x week took my levels to where they are now almost exactly - except now I am taking a little less hCG and 100mg of test a week. Odd.
On other boards, the accuracy of essentially any E2 test other than a very specific one is considered invalid.
I am unable to access this test in Canada. The test I have to go by is ESTRADIOL-17 BETA.
For the sake of argument, let’s assume this is not an accurate test. Am I best off going by symptom alone?
Right now, my reading on that test is 221 pmol/L in a range of 43-151 pmol/L. Taking 0.25mx of anastrozole with mt twice weekly 50mg test-e and 300IU hCG injections had my reading on that test a steady 80-90 pmol/L.
Converting from standard to conventional units would mean the following:
60 pg/mL range 11-41 pg/mL
My symptoms now are mood/energy related as I’ve stated. I do not recall any resolution of these symptoms on anastrozole vs the high reading I have now. I still get morning erections with this high level of e2 - and I always thought this was a sign of t/e balance.
Just wondering if you guys think continuing to chase a specific E2 test is a worthwhile expenditure of my energy, or if I should just treat with anastrozole to keep it in the healthy range per this possibly inaccurate test.
I get morning erections with an E2 level of 54 pg/mL (lab normal is 0-33 pg/mL). I almost definitely have a T/E imbalance, so I wouldn’t depend on that particular test (erections).
you could also work on optimizing your cortisol which should help regulate your E2 as well. There is a test for Free Cortisol (if you can convince a doctor to run it.)
Back on the AI wagon as of Wednesday. Since I didn’t realize any real gain from an EOD schedule, I’m also back to 2x weekly shots.
Following my 50mg shot Wednesday + 0.25mg anastrozole + 250iu hCG, I had a great day yesterday.
Until I went to bed, that is. I seem to have developed some kind of issue falling asleep since being on HRT. A nervous/anxious feeling that keeps me up, almost feels like a blood sugar thing. I had a very small dinner last night, and it wasnt until I ate something quick absorbing around 1130 that I was able to fall asleep.
Maybe a metabolism thing? My fasting insulin and glucose seem pretty good and wouldnt indicate insulin resistance or a blood sugar issue I don’t think.
if your cortisol drops too low then your blood sugar drops as well. Your body will sometime compensate by pumping out adrenaline to get your blood sugar up. High adrenaline = hard to sleep.
CHOL
Pregnenolone
Progesterone
17hydroxyprogrogesterone
Cortisol
Aldosterone
DHEA
Testosterone
Estradiol
DHT
and dozens on other links in the chain + all the ezymes that convert hormones along the chain.
not to mention thyroid, mineral, and vitamin balance + nuerotransmitters.
Hi NeelyDan, am in Ontario also and use this lab Home - Rocky Mountain Analytical (Rocky Mountain Labs) for E2 and Cortisol testing along with others. It is not covered by the Provincial Health Plan but most Private insurances cover the tests. Let me know if you have any questions as am in the Same TRT boat up in the Great White North.
In the USA, one can get 2% OTC progesterone cream if progesterone levels are low, otherwise the wives need it. This is more direct than pregnenolone supplements. But you can’t get your hands on these things in Canada.
DHEA does not lead to cortisol at all. DHEA supplements will not increase cortisol.
If DHEA levels are good without supplementation, pregnenolone levels must be OK and then probably then not a limiting factor for cortisol production.
In the USA, one can get 2% OTC progesterone cream if progesterone levels are low, otherwise the wives need it. This is more direct than pregnenolone supplements. But you can’t get your hands on these things in Canada.
DHEA does not lead to cortisol at all. DHEA supplements will not increase cortisol.
If DHEA levels are good without supplementation, pregnenolone levels must be OK and then probably then not a limiting factor for cortisol production. [/quote]
What is the context in which this comment was born out of?