HR 4170, Student Loan Forgiveness

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Offer no-strings financial help on useful degrees (Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Architecture, actual Music, etc). If some snot nosed little hipster wants to piss away his life doing an Arts degree, then he can do it on his own dime.

And while we’re at it, entry requirements should require kids to actually pay attention in school. University level study isn’t for everyone, so we should stop pretending it is. For example - Architecture should require electives from High School that are relevant (Physics, some form of Art). Engineering should require the relevant science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry). And so forth.

There we go - less idiots in University dropping out and clogging the system in the months before they drop out, and less loans being handed out to people that have a small probability of finding a job that will let them pay it back.

The consequence of the “everybody can do a degree” attitude is that most employers expect degree level qualifications for jobs that once only required a Diploma or even Trade Certificate. The amount of employers who seem to think you need a PhD for flipping burgers just because of how easy University is would surprise even the most cynical of you.[/quote]

This is getting to be a huge problem at my university. There is a growing sense of entitlement among my new students that has become more and more noticeable in recent years. They seem to think that just because they got accepted to the school and show up, they deserve a degree. That may work for some degrees, but not in my field, or most fields that offer decent wages. Getting a physics degree requires a lot of work, whether you have an IQ of 190 or 100. Anybody who claims to have gotten a physics or engineering or similar degree without spending a ridiculous amount of time studying is full of shit. The problem is that each year I get way too many freshman students that fail/drop my introductory classes simply because they do not put in the time required to pass.

Here is the funny/sad part: More than a few of these students try to blame ME, or whomever their professor is, for THEM failing. I have heard the remark “I am paying you to teach me. You should be putting in more effort to make sure I pass.” I always laugh when I hear something like this. Students pay for the opportunity to come to class and learn and show their proficiency through tests and such. If you do this, THEN you are granted a degree. I don’t care if a student pays 20 grand a year, if they do not study they fail. It is that simple.

I really wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from so it can be stopped. [/quote]

It comes from liberal artsy fartsy teachers who think they are qualified to teach because they did a Bachelor of Arts and majored in Education.

To become a teacher should require an actual Education degree and another degree in whatever subject you want to teach. And when I say teacher, I mean pre-university level teaching (i.e. high school).

22

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Offer no-strings financial help on useful degrees (Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Architecture, actual Music, etc). If some snot nosed little hipster wants to piss away his life doing an Arts degree, then he can do it on his own dime.

And while we’re at it, entry requirements should require kids to actually pay attention in school. University level study isn’t for everyone, so we should stop pretending it is. For example - Architecture should require electives from High School that are relevant (Physics, some form of Art). Engineering should require the relevant science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry). And so forth.

There we go - less idiots in University dropping out and clogging the system in the months before they drop out, and less loans being handed out to people that have a small probability of finding a job that will let them pay it back.

The consequence of the “everybody can do a degree” attitude is that most employers expect degree level qualifications for jobs that once only required a Diploma or even Trade Certificate. The amount of employers who seem to think you need a PhD for flipping burgers just because of how easy University is would surprise even the most cynical of you.[/quote]

This is getting to be a huge problem at my university. There is a growing sense of entitlement among my new students that has become more and more noticeable in recent years. They seem to think that just because they got accepted to the school and show up, they deserve a degree. That may work for some degrees, but not in my field, or most fields that offer decent wages. Getting a physics degree requires a lot of work, whether you have an IQ of 190 or 100. Anybody who claims to have gotten a physics or engineering or similar degree without spending a ridiculous amount of time studying is full of shit. The problem is that each year I get way too many freshman students that fail/drop my introductory classes simply because they do not put in the time required to pass.

Here is the funny/sad part: More than a few of these students try to blame ME, or whomever their professor is, for THEM failing. I have heard the remark “I am paying you to teach me. You should be putting in more effort to make sure I pass.” I always laugh when I hear something like this. Students pay for the opportunity to come to class and learn and show their proficiency through tests and such. If you do this, THEN you are granted a degree. I don’t care if a student pays 20 grand a year, if they do not study they fail. It is that simple.

I really wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from so it can be stopped. [/quote]

It comes from liberal artsy fartsy teachers who think they are qualified to teach because they did a Bachelor of Arts and majored in Education.

To become a teacher should require an actual Education degree and another degree in whatever subject you want to teach. And when I say teacher, I mean pre-university level teaching (i.e. high school).[/quote]

In the UK people normally do a first degree then a year-long PGCE, which is an education qualification. I don’t think it’s the qualification per se, it’s the constant box-ticking and getting people to run through hoops and gearing their education to certain tests so the government can point that grades are going up, while ignoring that actual learning has been diminished.

23

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Offer no-strings financial help on useful degrees (Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Architecture, actual Music, etc). If some snot nosed little hipster wants to piss away his life doing an Arts degree, then he can do it on his own dime.

And while we’re at it, entry requirements should require kids to actually pay attention in school. University level study isn’t for everyone, so we should stop pretending it is. For example - Architecture should require electives from High School that are relevant (Physics, some form of Art). Engineering should require the relevant science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry). And so forth.

There we go - less idiots in University dropping out and clogging the system in the months before they drop out, and less loans being handed out to people that have a small probability of finding a job that will let them pay it back.

The consequence of the “everybody can do a degree” attitude is that most employers expect degree level qualifications for jobs that once only required a Diploma or even Trade Certificate. The amount of employers who seem to think you need a PhD for flipping burgers just because of how easy University is would surprise even the most cynical of you.[/quote]

This is getting to be a huge problem at my university. There is a growing sense of entitlement among my new students that has become more and more noticeable in recent years. They seem to think that just because they got accepted to the school and show up, they deserve a degree. That may work for some degrees, but not in my field, or most fields that offer decent wages. Getting a physics degree requires a lot of work, whether you have an IQ of 190 or 100. Anybody who claims to have gotten a physics or engineering or similar degree without spending a ridiculous amount of time studying is full of shit. The problem is that each year I get way too many freshman students that fail/drop my introductory classes simply because they do not put in the time required to pass.

Here is the funny/sad part: More than a few of these students try to blame ME, or whomever their professor is, for THEM failing. I have heard the remark “I am paying you to teach me. You should be putting in more effort to make sure I pass.” I always laugh when I hear something like this. Students pay for the opportunity to come to class and learn and show their proficiency through tests and such. If you do this, THEN you are granted a degree. I don’t care if a student pays 20 grand a year, if they do not study they fail. It is that simple.

I really wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from so it can be stopped. [/quote]

It comes from liberal artsy fartsy teachers who think they are qualified to teach because they did a Bachelor of Arts and majored in Education.

To become a teacher should require an actual Education degree and another degree in whatever subject you want to teach. And when I say teacher, I mean pre-university level teaching (i.e. high school).[/quote]

Some people do do that. I was a chem major in undergrad and a number of people did chemistry major with education. They had to take all the chem courses I did as well as education courses. As far as I remember math, physics and biology were the same. I can’t speak for any other subjects though. I don’t know what the teaching requirements are.

24

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Offer no-strings financial help on useful degrees (Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Architecture, actual Music, etc). If some snot nosed little hipster wants to piss away his life doing an Arts degree, then he can do it on his own dime.

And while we’re at it, entry requirements should require kids to actually pay attention in school. University level study isn’t for everyone, so we should stop pretending it is. For example - Architecture should require electives from High School that are relevant (Physics, some form of Art). Engineering should require the relevant science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry). And so forth.

There we go - less idiots in University dropping out and clogging the system in the months before they drop out, and less loans being handed out to people that have a small probability of finding a job that will let them pay it back.

The consequence of the “everybody can do a degree” attitude is that most employers expect degree level qualifications for jobs that once only required a Diploma or even Trade Certificate. The amount of employers who seem to think you need a PhD for flipping burgers just because of how easy University is would surprise even the most cynical of you.[/quote]

This is getting to be a huge problem at my university. There is a growing sense of entitlement among my new students that has become more and more noticeable in recent years. They seem to think that just because they got accepted to the school and show up, they deserve a degree. That may work for some degrees, but not in my field, or most fields that offer decent wages. Getting a physics degree requires a lot of work, whether you have an IQ of 190 or 100. Anybody who claims to have gotten a physics or engineering or similar degree without spending a ridiculous amount of time studying is full of shit. The problem is that each year I get way too many freshman students that fail/drop my introductory classes simply because they do not put in the time required to pass.

Here is the funny/sad part: More than a few of these students try to blame ME, or whomever their professor is, for THEM failing. I have heard the remark “I am paying you to teach me. You should be putting in more effort to make sure I pass.” I always laugh when I hear something like this. Students pay for the opportunity to come to class and learn and show their proficiency through tests and such. If you do this, THEN you are granted a degree. I don’t care if a student pays 20 grand a year, if they do not study they fail. It is that simple.

I really wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from so it can be stopped. [/quote]

It comes from liberal artsy fartsy teachers who think they are qualified to teach because they did a Bachelor of Arts and majored in Education.

To become a teacher should require an actual Education degree and another degree in whatever subject you want to teach. And when I say teacher, I mean pre-university level teaching (i.e. high school).[/quote]

The problem with requiring something like dual degrees is the that teachers aren’t being paid enough to justify pursuing an additional degree. It goes back to people spending money on a degree that won’t pay out.

25

[quote]UAphenix wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Offer no-strings financial help on useful degrees (Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Architecture, actual Music, etc). If some snot nosed little hipster wants to piss away his life doing an Arts degree, then he can do it on his own dime.

And while we’re at it, entry requirements should require kids to actually pay attention in school. University level study isn’t for everyone, so we should stop pretending it is. For example - Architecture should require electives from High School that are relevant (Physics, some form of Art). Engineering should require the relevant science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry). And so forth.

There we go - less idiots in University dropping out and clogging the system in the months before they drop out, and less loans being handed out to people that have a small probability of finding a job that will let them pay it back.

The consequence of the “everybody can do a degree” attitude is that most employers expect degree level qualifications for jobs that once only required a Diploma or even Trade Certificate. The amount of employers who seem to think you need a PhD for flipping burgers just because of how easy University is would surprise even the most cynical of you.[/quote]

This is getting to be a huge problem at my university. There is a growing sense of entitlement among my new students that has become more and more noticeable in recent years. They seem to think that just because they got accepted to the school and show up, they deserve a degree. That may work for some degrees, but not in my field, or most fields that offer decent wages. Getting a physics degree requires a lot of work, whether you have an IQ of 190 or 100. Anybody who claims to have gotten a physics or engineering or similar degree without spending a ridiculous amount of time studying is full of shit. The problem is that each year I get way too many freshman students that fail/drop my introductory classes simply because they do not put in the time required to pass.

Here is the funny/sad part: More than a few of these students try to blame ME, or whomever their professor is, for THEM failing. I have heard the remark “I am paying you to teach me. You should be putting in more effort to make sure I pass.” I always laugh when I hear something like this. Students pay for the opportunity to come to class and learn and show their proficiency through tests and such. If you do this, THEN you are granted a degree. I don’t care if a student pays 20 grand a year, if they do not study they fail. It is that simple.

I really wish I knew where this sense of entitlement came from so it can be stopped. [/quote]

It comes from liberal artsy fartsy teachers who think they are qualified to teach because they did a Bachelor of Arts and majored in Education.

To become a teacher should require an actual Education degree and another degree in whatever subject you want to teach. And when I say teacher, I mean pre-university level teaching (i.e. high school).[/quote]

The problem with requiring something like dual degrees is the that teachers aren’t being paid enough to justify pursuing an additional degree. It goes back to people spending money on a degree that won’t pay out.
[/quote]

High school teachers in NJ don’t make what I would call “bad” money when topped out. Hell they can start at around $45k right out of college. They also have extra opportunities. For example, my brother is a phys ed an health teacher. Because of the time he can coach football and wrestling and makes around $70k a year total. He’s also under 30.