Good work mate.
PIHP, after foam rolling her.
tweet
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[quote]JR249 wrote:
I just decided that this probably is not a good idea, and honestly this was a great venue to solicit opinions on a completely ‘anonymous’ basis. I’d love to pursue the “I don’t give a f*** what others think” mentality and do my own thing, and ideally I think that’s largely how society should operate when it comes to our sex lives, social lives, etc., as it’s none of anyone’s business, but if you’re a public school teacher you don’t always have that luxury in your personal life.
Some might not understand how a few select professions can force a person to make decisions like this in his or her own personal life outside of the workplace, and that’s fine, but if it has the propensity to look too awkward to the wrong parents or even some of the students, as it did to some of the respondents here, namely because this person is still under age 21, it’s really not worth over 12 years of my reputation as an educator, class sponsor, and at times an assistant coach in this community.
I wasn’t interested in a “hit it and forget it” type of an arrangement, which would then mean it would be forced to be on the down low, and that’s not something that I desire either. It’s nice to have someone to go out with, at least for dinners and such, bring to social affairs, etc. I don’t want a secret lover.
Good discussion gents. :)[/quote]
I feel a little bit bad for playing devil’s advocate now when my first impulse was to give you a great big high-five.
I guess we learn to think with our head sometime in our 30’s.
[/quote]
Agreed. B/c my younger self would totally say the above but then when that 20yr old vagoo is staring me in the face it would all go out the window.
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.
It’s not worth your career.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.
It’s not worth your career.[/quote]
I don’t understand why anyone would choose a career that they could lose over something they did in their private lives off hours. WTF kinda bullshit is that?
How is it anyone’s business what you do on the internet ON YOUR TIME?
If you got fired over that (or for dating an adult female who happens to be younger), couldn’t you sue your employer for wrongful termination? I mean, what is the justification for firing someone who doesn’t break the law or who dates someone unaffiliated with their employer, but who happens to be younger?
Like seriously, why on earth would you “professionals” allow yourself to be controlled like that? Who the fuck are they to control you? And why would you submit to said control?
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.
It’s not worth your career.[/quote]
I don’t understand why anyone would choose a career that they could lose over something they did in their private lives off hours. WTF kinda bullshit is that?
How is it anyone’s business what you do on the internet ON YOUR TIME?
If you got fired over that (or for dating an adult female who happens to be younger), couldn’t you sue your employer for wrongful termination? I mean, what is the justification for firing someone who doesn’t break the law or who dates someone unaffiliated with their employer, but who happens to be younger?
Like seriously, why on earth would you “professionals” allow yourself to be controlled like that? Who the fuck are they to control you? And why would you submit to said control?[/quote]
I agree, it’s stupid.
I’ve heard of female teachers getting in trouble because they had racy photos online. Seems pretty stupid especially if it is the same thing you see a girl wear at the beach.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.
It’s not worth your career.[/quote]
I don’t understand why anyone would choose a career that they could lose over something they did in their private lives off hours. WTF kinda bullshit is that?
How is it anyone’s business what you do on the internet ON YOUR TIME?
If you got fired over that (or for dating an adult female who happens to be younger), couldn’t you sue your employer for wrongful termination? I mean, what is the justification for firing someone who doesn’t break the law or who dates someone unaffiliated with their employer, but who happens to be younger?
Like seriously, why on earth would you “professionals” allow yourself to be controlled like that? Who the fuck are they to control you? And why would you submit to said control?[/quote]
I don’t have answers to the questions about why people would care, but they do. Why I do the work is that I find satisfaction and meaning in it. I also have a great deal of fun doing it.
In speculating about the whys of the attitudes I would remind you that “legal” and “moral” are not always the same thing, and even if “moral” isn’t at play “wise” may be. I was willing to accompany my ex-boyfriend to his favorite dive bar occasionally when I worked a distance away. When I took a job closer I no longer wished to be seen there. He thought it was stupid. I get that. But it is what it is.
No sense debating the age difference - we’ve been 'round that block before on these forums. I find that age difference distasteful and would have at 20, other people don’t.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you’re doing the right thing. My field is similarly uptight and until changing jobs and contexts (from working as a children’s therapist in community mental health to working in a medical practice) I found even posting on TNation risky as a female, though if I were male it wouldn’t matter.
It’s not worth your career.[/quote]
I don’t understand why anyone would choose a career that they could lose over something they did in their private lives off hours. WTF kinda bullshit is that?
How is it anyone’s business what you do on the internet ON YOUR TIME?
If you got fired over that (or for dating an adult female who happens to be younger), couldn’t you sue your employer for wrongful termination? I mean, what is the justification for firing someone who doesn’t break the law or who dates someone unaffiliated with their employer, but who happens to be younger?
Like seriously, why on earth would you “professionals” allow yourself to be controlled like that? Who the fuck are they to control you? And why would you submit to said control?[/quote]
I don’t have answers to the questions about why people would care, but they do. Why I do the work is that I find satisfaction and meaning in it. I also have a great deal of fun doing it. [/quote]I’m sure you’re great at what you do. And I’m sure it’s stressful. Which is why I think you should be able to go to a bar and have a drink if you want to without fearing for your career. That is pretty ridiculous. You all need to organize.[quote]
In speculating about the whys of the attitudes I would remind you that “legal” and “moral” are not always the same thing, and even if “moral” isn’t at play “wise” may be. I was willing to accompany my ex-boyfriend to his favorite dive bar occasionally when I worked a distance away. When I took a job closer I no longer wished to be seen there. He thought it was stupid. I get that. But it is what it is.
[/quote]So you felt that your job was at risk if someone saw you at a BAR? Really? And you chalk that up to “it is what it is”? That doesn’t strike you as a “tad” bit oppressive? But it would be OK if you were a man, right? Dude, THAT’s the kind of discrimination that I feel women should be fighting for, cuz if that’s legitimate, it’s BULLSHIT. Why are you not up in arms against this double standard? I mean, that directly affects YOU…[quote]
No sense debating the age difference - we’ve been 'round that block before on these forums. I find that age difference distasteful and would have at 20, other people don’t. [/quote]
The age difference isn’t the issue, the issue is that just because someone finds something “distasteful”, they can cost a person their career. Last time I checked this is a free country… If you go to work, do a good job and go home, who gives a shit what you do as long as you are not breaking the law? I mean, you guys aren’t publicly elected officials or anything. And he’s a teacher and you’re a psychologist (or something like that), so it’s not like you’re bringing home a shit ton of money (not a judgement just a fact)…
Why deal with that level of unjustified scrutiny? I mean it’s 2014… We have an African American president, openly gay congressmen, but EmilyQ might lose her job if she’s seen at a dive bar and the OP might lose his job if he’s seen out with a younger woman who NOT a former student? You guys are fucking crazy to put up with that kind of bullshit. I’d sue the shit out of an employer who terminated me for such reasons.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The age difference isn’t the issue, the issue is that just because someone finds something “distasteful”, they can cost a person their career. Last time I checked this is a free country… If you go to work, do a good job and go home, who gives a shit what you do as long as you are not breaking the law? I mean, you guys aren’t publicly elected officials or anything. And he’s a teacher and you’re a psychologist (or something like that), so it’s not like you’re bringing home a shit ton of money (not a judgement just a fact)…
Why deal with that level of unjustified scrutiny? I mean it’s 2014… We have an African American president, openly gay congressmen, but EmilyQ might lose her job if she’s seen at a dive bar and the OP might lose his job if he’s seen out with a younger woman who NOT a former student? You guys are fucking crazy to put up with that kind of bullshit. I’d sue the shit out of an employer who terminated me for such reasons.
[/quote]
I completely agree with you, but here’s the rationale, and I would would have zero legal recourse to sue the school district because there is a litany of case law that rests mostly on their side.
Teachers are employed by the taxpayers, who exercise control over a school district vis-a-vis an elected school board. The school boards dictate the acceptable behavior of teachers, since they are in a sensitive position and are required to be role models. The prevailing thought here is that the expectation of being a “good role model” involves maintaining a professional demeanor, which has to include making sure your students are not uncomfortable with you as a person.
If you do anything in your private life that becomes public knowledge and impacts your nexus of teaching in the classroom, e.g., students being made uncomfortable or losing confidence in your authority due to illegal, unethical and/or immoral behavior on the side, according to the community’s perceived standards of propriety, you’ve permanently damaged that trust, authority or relationship that is necessary to be an effective educator.
So if, in this case, my personal behavior became wider public knowledge and few students or parents were uncertain as to my perceived inappropriate or licentious sexual intentions, then I have a problem with my ability to teach those students in a least restrictive environment where they are comfortable around me, at least from a sexual or emotional standpoint.
Yeah, it should be none of anyone’s business because we are both consenting adults, but if students or parents are likely to find the behavior “creepy” or socially inappropriate, giving the appearance that I might want to sleep with their kids who are 2-5 years younger, then I’m toast. The school district can remove a teacher whose reputation has been impacted by perceived unethical or immoral, albeit entirely legal, behavior.
If I didn’t teacher senior high school I’m guessing this wouldn’t be as much of an issue, namely because the other party in question would be quite a few more years removed from the age of the students I work with, who are 18-19 years old their senior year of high school. I guess that’s the best way to explain it. This is the one aspect of the job I dislike the most, because I know of people in the profession who have been fired for posting racy pics online, having drunken photos on FB, venting on Facebook referencing “retards,” telling racist jokes in public on their own time and even getting a first DUI on a weekend, which was a misdemeanor offense.
I’m glad I posted the question, because I really wasn’t sure if an ordinary person would care or find it creepy, but a few responses here were enough to get to me rethink how it could be perceived by the wrong parents or more sensitive students.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’d sue the shit out of an employer who terminated me for such reasons.
[/quote]
Most states have at will employment, meaning you are free to leave and they are free to fire you without cause (mostly). Of course equal opportunity laws and unions skew this but generally if my employer doesn’t like how I am representing them through my associations they can terminate me.
Furthermore, although union members, teachers often have moral turpitude clauses that dictate moral conduct.
If you want to date younger women you should have went into politics. Taking a selfie after getting into a wreck while sexting and drinking with a car full of 16yr old catholic schoolgirls will get you re-elected at least twice.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Furthermore, although union members, teachers often have moral turpitude clauses that dictate moral conduct.
[/quote]
We are unionized, so not “at will” in that sense, but the policy manual reads as follows:
“All school employees shall demonstrate conduct that follows generally recognized professional standards and attend all in-service trainings on educator ethics, teacher-student conduct, and school employee-student conduct for all personnel (105ILCS 5/10-22.39). Unethical conduct is any conduct that impairs the employee’s ability to function professionally in his or her employment position or a pattern of behavior or conduct that is detrimental to the health, welfare, discipline, or morals of students.”
That’s really such broad verbiage, that most any behavior that raises the ire of a few more socially orthodox or reactionary parents or students can start problems.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’d sue the shit out of an employer who terminated me for such reasons.
[/quote]
Most states have at will employment, meaning you are free to leave and they are free to fire you without cause (mostly). Of course equal opportunity laws and unions skew this but generally if my employer doesn’t like how I am representing them through my associations they can terminate me.
Furthermore, although union members, teachers often have moral turpitude clauses that dictate moral conduct.
[/quote]
But they don’t pay shit! How can they dictate you limit your lifestyle if they won’t reasonably compensate you? And I’ll bet that it’s a double standard for men and women. That’s what really irked me. When she said that if she was a man, she wouldn’t have thought twice about posting here, but as a woman, she feared for her job. That sounds like pretty blatant sexism to me, which IS illegal.
The other side of my tangent is a question for these “professionals”, why limit yourself for such a low salary? Everyone knows that teachers and social workers don’t make shit compared to other similarly educated “professionals”, but they have the highest “moral” standard? Why on earth would anyone do that?
My brother is a professor at pretty big east coast university. He went to school for 13 years, has a PhD and makes 65K per year… Boggles my little brain. I made more when I was 3rd year apprentice! And to tack all of these “moral turpitude” clauses on top of that ridiculously low salary? And you have to kiss ass to get tenure, but once you GET tenure, you’re pretty much untouchable? The academic world is fucking nuts…
[quote]JR249 wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Furthermore, although union members, teachers often have moral turpitude clauses that dictate moral conduct.
[/quote]
We are unionized, so not “at will” in that sense, but the policy manual reads as follows:
“All school employees shall demonstrate conduct that follows generally recognized professional standards and attend all in-service trainings on educator ethics, teacher-student conduct, and school employee-student conduct for all personnel (105ILCS 5/10-22.39). Unethical conduct is any conduct that impairs the employee’s ability to function professionally in his or her employment position or a pattern of behavior or conduct that is detrimental to the health, welfare, discipline, or morals of students.”
That’s really such broad verbiage, that most any behavior that raises the ire of a few more socially orthodox or reactionary parents or students can start problems.
[/quote]
You have a union… And you VOTED for that line of bullshit? WTF is wrong with you guys? Why on earth would you ratify a contract with that language in it? I mean, your union is supposed to PROTECT your job, not hang you out there in the wind so that some teetotaler with a wild hair up their ultra conservative ass can cost you your career!
Or do most teachers just drink the cool aid and take what they’re given? The teachers union is a pretty powerful union - they aren’t afraid to strike. Why on earth would they represent you so poorly? That’s just ridiculous in my opinion.
If that language was written into the Trade union’s contracts, all major construction projects in the US would come to a grinding halt! LOL
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
You have a union… And you VOTED for that line of bullshit? WTF is wrong with you guys? Why on earth would you ratify a contract with that language in it? I mean, your union is supposed to PROTECT your job, not hang you out there in the wind so that some teetotaler with a wild hair up their ultra conservative ass can cost you your career!
Or do most teachers just drink the cool aid and take what they’re given? The teachers union is a pretty powerful union - they aren’t afraid to strike. Why on earth would they represent you so poorly? That’s just ridiculous in my opinion.
If that language was written into the Trade union’s contracts, all major construction projects in the US would come to a grinding halt! LOL [/quote]
It’s language from the school district’s policy manual, not the collective bargaining contract, which is a separate agreement altogether.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Or do most teachers just drink the cool aid and take what they’re given? The teachers union is a pretty powerful union - they aren’t afraid to strike. LOL [/quote]
I don’t know about his state but teachers in Michigan can’t strike. Pretty powerful union.
[quote]JR249 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
You have a union… And you VOTED for that line of bullshit? WTF is wrong with you guys? Why on earth would you ratify a contract with that language in it? I mean, your union is supposed to PROTECT your job, not hang you out there in the wind so that some teetotaler with a wild hair up their ultra conservative ass can cost you your career!
Or do most teachers just drink the cool aid and take what they’re given? The teachers union is a pretty powerful union - they aren’t afraid to strike. Why on earth would they represent you so poorly? That’s just ridiculous in my opinion.
If that language was written into the Trade union’s contracts, all major construction projects in the US would come to a grinding halt! LOL [/quote]
It’s language from the school district’s policy manual, not the collective bargaining contract, which is a separate agreement altogether.
[/quote]
One of my Union brother’s made a minor procedural mistake that got blown way out of proportion at a data center. He was asked by the customer to sit down for a week without pay. Well he called our Business Agent and the BA went to the company and told them that was a violation of our contract. And if the customer wanted union electricians working in their data centers, they had to follow union rules. To make a long story short, my brother didn’t sit down…
You are a union. They represent YOU and your brothers and sisters… You CAN affect change in these kinds of arbitrary and discriminatory policies if you wanted to. I would. But then again, I like banging 21 year olds regularly. I’d be damned if I let my employer dictate to me who I can or cannot fuck on MY time in MY life.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Or do most teachers just drink the cool aid and take what they’re given? The teachers union is a pretty powerful union - they aren’t afraid to strike. LOL [/quote]
I don’t know about his state but teachers in Michigan can’t strike. Pretty powerful union.
[/quote]
My Union has a no strike clause in our contract as well. As a result, we have to maintain a much better style of communication and play win-win. Which is what I support ideologically anyway. But believe me, if there were a gross violation of our agreement, you can be sure a large number of us would strike regardless of what the contract said.
Kind of late, but…
I had a teacher in HIGH SCHOOL that married one of his ex-students when she was 20 or so… so I don’t see how you would have any problems.
My brother married a girl about half his age. They’ve been together for a few years. As she’s gotten older, she now sees it as creepy that he went after her. Are they happy? I don’t know enough to comment, but the fact that I don’t know could be a flag.
[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
I had a teacher in HIGH SCHOOL that married one of his ex-students when she was 20 or so… so I don’t see how you would have any problems.
[/quote]
Yeah. You had one. Once. That’s like saying “I ran across the street through traffic once and didn’t get hit, so I think you should be able to do the same thing.”
I had a teacher in high school - a very damn good one and a sharp guy that I would have called a role model at the time - that (a few years later) got his name dragged through the mud in a text-messaging scandal involving a former student that eventually cost him his job.
JR249 would be running some risk; school board politics are a pretty shitty business and all it takes is the wrong set of parents deciding that their daughter’s teacher is “seedy” to set off an ugly chain of events that, even if it did not cost him his job, might be a very undesirable thing to get dragged through in a rather public setting.
Lol,
I know a girl that fucked one of our teachers. Our 3rd grade teacher to be precise, that’s creepy…