Hi folks,
It would be great to hear your tips for having a smooth transition when going off a cycle.
For example:
I am finishing my Test E/Deca cycle in 2 weeks. I am happy with my gains and intend to to a SERM based PCT.
I really appreciate your input. Thanks for a great forum!
M.
You could try the Test Taper for a smooth, stable transition. I personally haven’t tried it, but what got my interest over the traditional SERM PCT was the fact my testosterone levels will never be below baseline during and after the taper, meaning stable blood levels and that should take care of the psychological roller coaster, acne and other side effects.
Maya,
Thanks for your input. I have been thinking about tapering myself, although I still have a few things to learn about it. I thought I’d stick to a SERM PCT since this was my initial plan. Anyway, I might reconsider this approach.
Take care,
M.
You can check out the Test Taper protocol sticky at the top of the forum list if you already havent. There is some good information about the taper there.
And if im not mistaken, there are a few things in there referencing training and diet during PCT as well.
I think this is a good thread, however. I would also like to know some definitive things regarding the Post Cycle.
If I may add to your list of questions:
-Heavy or Non-Heavy training during PCT? Why or Why not?
-Depending on your PCT method ie. traditional or Stasis/Taper, how long should you wait to go back on?
-Maintain cycle caloric intake, decrease or increase during PCT? Why?
Jazz,
Cool, I am seriously considering doing the stasis+tapering instead of traditional PCT.
As mentioned my plan was to do a SERM PCT with Nolvadex and Clomid. I did most of my research on another forum, and that is what they recommended. I now see that a lot of people say HCG is also necessary when doing a SERM based PCT. I do not have HCG.
So, since many people do better with stasis+tapering than SERM PCT, I might try that.
I am a little worried about acne though. It says in the Test Taper Protocol sticky that some people had huge problems with acne/backnie.
M.
You’ll get a lot of different and sometimes conflicting opinions from people, especially from board to board. There are those who absolutely swear by one method of PCT over the other.
I am only on my first cycle right now and I have not yet tried either method, but im planning on the Stasis/Taper method. I belive it all comes down to with what you feel most comfortable with. Some people are afraid of needles so obviously traditional PCT would be more comfortable to them. I would say just make sure you know as much as you can about the one you choose however, still study both.
I cant really comment on the acne issue except to say that it differs from person to person, as with everything else about gear. And if you do get it, there are methods to use to help it out a bit. Im 32 and have had acne problems since early puberty so a few more pimples to me for a few weeks isnt a big deal, you may be different.
[quote]mancandy wrote:
I am a little worried about acne though. It says in the Test Taper Protocol sticky that some people had huge problems with acne/backnie.
[/quote]
Thats a concern of mine as well. But I think AIs could help with acne. From my understanding, acne flares up after all the hormonal imbalances in the body due to the cycle. It’s important to have them both in check.
I think it makes sense that the use of an AI during the cycle, and the start of the test taper is important. Due to the sudden drop of test levels at the end of your cycle, there will be extra estrogen floating around. The AI will take care of all the that.
The stasis period allows your body to slowly adapt to a lower (normal), endogenous level of hormones after the cycle. Your body will also have to adapt to normal estrogen levels, thus the reason for tapering off the AI the third week of stasis (body needs estrogen, can’t keep killing it off).
That’s just my take on it…
I think it’s always wise to use something extra to counterbalance the sides. If the sides are undesired, I don’t see a reason in risking to see if your body is susceptible to them. I’d rather prevent them than treat them. Soo, stuff like Propecia, AIs, Proactive, etc. would be a good investment.
Not too sure on this, but I heard somewhere that DHT-inhibitors could help with acne? Something about DHT could also be causing acne… Could someone plz clarify?
Jazz: that’s true. Info varies a little from forum to forum. Anyway, I am also 32 and this is my second cycle. After the first cycle I did SERM pct.
I don’t think it did much for me, but I did not really feel I needed a PCT after all. Nothing much happened to me after going off the cycle. That first cycle was 500 Test E every week (for 10 weeks) though.
This second cycle mine is a little heavier, Test E & Deca. Also, I never had any big problems with acne, and I just really want to continue to keep it that way.
This article discusses some of the questions you added:
Maya: What is an AI? I’m sorry dude, but I am Norwegian and English is my second language. Mostly it is not a problem, but I miss out on some of the terminology.
Later,
M.
Great article mancandy. Thanks for the info.
AI stands for aromatase inhibitor.
If you’re going to come off the test in 2 weeks, I’d stop the deca now if you haven’t already. Deca has a longer half life than test e and you’ll have a smoother transition if you drop it now, regardless of which type of pct you use.
Whoa,
That is good advice - and I intend to do so. Actually, I stopped using Deca last week.
I was going to continue using Test E for one week more than deca, but I see some people recommend doing 2 weeks of Test E only after dropping the deca.
Will 1 week be ok or should I do 2 weeks? Any thoughts on that?
BTW: I will be doing the taper method of PCT.
According to the half life of the ester, you’re probably better off going 2 weeks longer than the deca.
[quote]Jazz_Man1898 wrote:
If I may add to your list of questions:
-Heavy or Non-Heavy training during PCT? Why or Why not?
[/quote]
-My $.02 is heavy during PCT coming off of long esters for obvious reasons and then switch to higher reps immediately post-PCT until the next cycle. Changing up my work out forces my muscles to re-think what’s going on and adapt to the new training -
This also provides me with an opportunity to turn up the cardio because I’m mostly supersetting antagonistic muscles during this phase. This is just my opinion based on practical trial and error experience, others will certainly have different views.
-I would certainly at least wait until your nuts are back to being fat and happy…just how long after that I’m uncertain.
I tend to believe that once the body has returned to normal (even though you may have a month or so before your time off equals your time on) it’s ok to go back on. KSman would probably have some good technical insight as to how long your nuts need to pump at full go on their own before running test again (and hence shutting them down) while others like Bushy, RJ and the like may offer some good practical advice along with their knowledge base.
[quote]
-Maintain cycle caloric intake, decrease or increase during PCT? Why?[/quote]
-This last question is all personal preference IMO. I mean, ideally you would eat like a fighter in training year round but that’s likely not possible.
Run the test for two weeks past the deca if using traditional pct(serm). If running the stasis/taper method it doenst make much of a differnce as the deca will long be cleared by the time your 6 week stasis period is up.
Dont immediately drop calories during or post pct or attempt a cut at this time(with excessive cardio). Your body has a hard enough time trying to return to homeostasis and retaining gains without having worry about enough fuel in the tank.
An AI is an aromatase inhibitor such as adex. This is used during cycle to prevent excessive E2 levels.
Thanks Mousse! I would definately like to other’s opinions on these.
I think Mousse summed it up well. Also, lillguy had a good point.
To add to what lillguy said, you will be fighting cortisol during and after PCT, so definitely do NOT drop you calories too much too fast cuz you will bring on increased levels of cortisol. This will make you more catabolic and fatter.
[quote]mancandy wrote:
Hi folks,
It would be great to hear your tips for having a smooth transition when going off a cycle.
For example:
I am finishing my Test E/Deca cycle in 2 weeks. I am happy with my gains and intend to to a SERM based PCT.
I really appreciate your input. Thanks for a great forum!
M.[/quote]
Training:
This is a good time to move to a High intensity, low volume (poss. high freq. too) program. The reason is that while “on” cortisol has been blocked from doing its evil. Once “off” your body has an influx of cortisol which accounts for SOME of the loss of mass following cessation of AAS.
If you go to a low volume training program, keeping sessions at 1 hour max down to 30-45 mins, (a cyclic approach would be best) then you will be keeping any excess cortisol release at bay, you will be accounting for the decreased recovery and performance with the drop in sets/volume,
and it allows you to adapt very well to the drop in strength. ie, moving to a different rep range as the strength disappears means you do not have to be witness to the horrifying realisation that you are now 20lbs and 5 reps under what you were doing last week on the exact same exercise or same protocol! It gets lost in the confusion almost.
But it is for the reason of controlling cortisol production post cycle primarily. I do this, it serves me ok.
Joe
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
mancandy wrote:
Hi folks,
It would be great to hear your tips for having a smooth transition when going off a cycle.
For example:
I am finishing my Test E/Deca cycle in 2 weeks. I am happy with my gains and intend to to a SERM based PCT.
I really appreciate your input. Thanks for a great forum!
M.
Training:
This is a good time to move to a High intensity, low volume (poss. high freq. too) program. The reason is that while “on” cortisol has been blocked from doing its evil. Once “off” your body has an influx of cortisol which accounts for SOME of the loss of mass following cessation of AAS.
If you go to a low volume training program, keeping sessions at 1 hour max down to 30-45 mins, (a cyclic approach would be best) then you will be keeping any excess cortisol release at bay, you will be accounting for the decreased recovery and performance with the drop in sets/volume, and it allows you to adapt very well to the drop in strength. ie, moving to a different rep range as the strength disappears means you do not have to be witness to the horrifying realisation that you are now 20lbs and 5 reps under what you were doing last week on the exact same exercise or same protocol! It gets lost in the confusion almost.
But it is for the reason of controlling cortisol production post cycle primarily. I do this, it serves me ok.
Joe[/quote]
Good post Joe. I succumbed to a very similar post-cycle training approach myself after my last couple of runs with gear, it has served me well also - interesting, I only wish I would have figured it out sooner. I would add also that severe muscle soreness can be better avoided and it is an ideal time to bring cardio back up to speed as well.
Yeah… maybe - i personally would be a little wary of hitting cardio too hard untill fully recovered for the same reasons…
I also make sure i have my supplements ready for going “off”.
Creatine always.
(Protein and Oils must be a given here?).
Maybe HMB.
Maybe Ribose.
Currently i am trying methoxy and ecdy. Nothing to report… saying that, even if they were fucking excellent legal supplements - who could tell after a course of Test?! lol!
But every little helps. The best advice i read once was everything you do to build muscle while ON - you must keep up, and then some - while going OFF.
Apart from the fact if your were training 6x a week for 1.5hrs whle on, reduce that to 3-4x a week for 45mins-1hr.
Common sense plays a large part… But only once you understand someof AAS finer workings. Only some mind you, you neednt have a doctorate! (although it helps!)
[quote]Joe Joseph wrote:
Yeah… maybe - i personally would be a little wary of hitting cardio too hard untill fully recovered for the same reasons…
I also make sure i have my supplements ready for going “off”.
Creatine always.
(Protein and Oils must be a given here?).
Maybe HMB.
Maybe Ribose.
Currently i am trying methoxy and ecdy. Nothing to report… saying that, even if they were fucking excellent legal supplements - who could tell after a course of Test?! lol!
But every little helps. The best advice i read once was everything you do to build muscle while ON - you must keep up, and then some - while going OFF.
Apart from the fact if your were training 6x a week for 1.5hrs whle on, reduce that to 3-4x a week for 45mins-1hr.
Common sense plays a large part… But only once you understand someof AAS finer workings. Only some mind you, you neednt have a doctorate! (although it helps!)[/quote]
Indeed protein and oils are a definite given!
I also utilized Biotest’s Carbolin-19 immediately following and added Rez after PCT. Not sure of Carbolin-19’s effectiveness but the Rez-V seemed to improve my rebound. It’s hard to say, I did maintain my gains somewhat better after my last run, but I expect to get better and better just like the post-cycle training routine I stumbled onto.
Btw, I may not have made it clear but the cardio increase I speak of follows PCT, but I do incorporate it before a full rebound which doesn’t come for a full month after PCT on my end.