How to Fix Our Economy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Journeyman wrote:
Rather than blaming the unions, look at the cost of providing labor with medical insurance. We add crazy high medical expenses to the cost of labor. I Europe, medical expenses are much lower than in the US.

To me, this is one of those cases where free markets have been proven to be an inefficient means to provide a service. We are paying about $7K per person for medical care, but the French (who are actually more productive per hour than Americans) pay only about $4K per year and they are on the high end in Europe.
[/quote]
You partially right. The requirements we put on law-abiding businesses has created the black market for labor. Unemployment, medical coverage, corporate income tax, all increase the cost of services from LAW-ABIDING businesses. Businesses that do not play by the same rules have a competitive advantage when they break the laws the rest of follow. Where you whent wrong was to blame the free market for this. These are gov’t regulations and laws and are not imposed by the free market.

It is common sense, reason, and simple mathematics.

Unfortunately economics is your typical science. There are far too many variables to conduct an acurate experiment or point to historic data or events. In economics you must first come up with a theroy and then you must use logic to prove your therory. The Austrians new this more than 100 years ago and their theories still hold true and can be used to explain every significant economic even in history. Unfortunatly, not many people read the Austrians or those who study their work.

As for trying socialized medicine, ask your self this. How much will it cost us if it fails? How much damage will we have done to the greatest healthcare system in the world. How long will take us to repair the damage? How many gov’t programs we have created have been eliminated?

All we have to do is look around to see how well socialized medicine has worked. The answer is less regulation and more choices for consumers. The answer is less protectionism. Not more.

[quote]
I think we need to make our economy more efficient. Use market almost all of the time, use socialism when it is proven to be more efficient. Downsize the military and have it focus on homeland defense, not projecting power at great economic expense. In short, we need results not ideology.[/quote]
Socialism has never worked and it has been tried at the very largest scale many times. Countries have only florished when they moved away from Socialism. Why would we go the other direction?

62

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:

Umm, okay. I’m going to use a little bit of common sense here and a wee pinch of personal interaction with them illegals. Illegal aliens are not lawfully allowed to live and take residency in the good olde U.S of A.

You’re not using any common sense but I’ll help you out.

They don’t like to raise red flags or any sort of flag for that matter. Requesting any sort of government aid does this. In order for you to request such services you need certain documents that they don’t possess.

Complete bullshit. Do their kids go to school? Where do they go for medical care? I guess California isn’t going bankrupt? I guess they aren’t stealing social security numbers? I wonder why the local news stations are lying about the busts that have been happening up here (MN, IA).

You fly under the radar. Don’t make waves and try to do your best school. They strive to reach higher levels than the previous generation. They happily do the shit work and yes: they pay taxes.

So they don’t have documentation to collect benefits, but do have documentation to pay taxes? Interesting.

 I can claim this because unlike some I'm not just parroting back what Rushmo says. I've bumped elbows with them building. I've heard their stories of the families they left behind and of their struggles in adapting to a foreign lands customs.

Great story. I am sure the ones waiting to get in LEGALLY have the same stories.

Of their mute responses to insults. Then I look in the mirror and realize that only difference is a piece of paper which guarantees my so-called freedom. Its easy to throw stones when your inside the old mastahs Crow’s house now huh? When some one else is out on the field.

It amazes me to what extent people forget the past. Look around, we need these illegals. I have yet to see some (white) college kid out in the fields of Santa Maria picking my organic spring salad mix.

I guess all that shit about unemployment rate shooting up when school let out because college and highshcool kids couldn’t find jobs was a hoax. What about the ones doing factory work? What about the ones working at every fast food resturant? I seem to remember white kids doing these jobs. My white wife and all of her white freinds use to work in the fields every summer detassling corn.

Working as an indentured slave in order to pay for their crossing at times. In my opinion, this is a mute point. Acting out on this proposition will result in nothing. This is my opinion towards the OP. Its inalienable according to the 1st. Ooh I can tell this one is going to be spicy!

So there are no undocumented illeagals. There is no black market labor undercutting law abiding workers and businesses. There are no illeagles with fake SS numbers. None of them are using our schools or hospitals. They all pay taxes. None of them are criminals.

How about we actually control who comes in here? How about me make sure everyone that is here and wants job has one? How about we reward those who follow our laws and are waiting in line? Those are people we need. We need leagals, not illeagals. [/quote]

I never said any of that. You have dollar mart sarcasm. Cheap and dull. Yes, they must break the law to obtain employment but guess who if anybody is benefitting from their social security withholding. Not them because their names don’t match the numbers. Yes they use “our” schools but some of them ilegales , by the way you spelled it wrong and your ignorance shined, in my area are college bound. Some are good enough for Princeton! Wow, I guess after takin jur jobs, they are takin ur edumications. You obviously don’t live in CA. The white worker is a minority in the labor sector. The white blue collar worker is sadly a dying breed. Just so you know, getting a legal visa from Mexico in order to come to the US you must meet certain criteria. Namely you must have certain income requirements in Mexico and you must have important business in the US. No, picking my spring salad mix doesn’t apply. A pregnant woman with her husband on the other side with no income doesn’t meet that criteria. In other words, if it was so easy everyone would be doing it. As of late, I’m willing to bet border crossings are down. Why the fuck would you risk life and limb to get to another place thats in the same economical shithole but with a different flag and language.

63

I don’t know what to make of all this. I have a large chunk of my savings in a WAMU account and that’s in the forefront of my mind. All I know is the market is going to get killed tomorrow (at least in the morning).

64

Don’t worry about your money, it’s safe. As long as it’s a regular bank account and you’re not a shareholder or trader…

The bank stays functional, but changed hands to JP Morgan.

65

Yeah, understood. Disturbing nonetheless because it’s hitting close to home. I worked for WAMU for several years through college and have banked there for nearly two decades.

I’m not one to freak out and pull the cash out in light of this because I’m not worried so much about the money itself, as much as I am the value of the money (been buying a little gold over the last few days).

66

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:

I never said any of that. You have dollar mart sarcasm. Cheap and dull. Yes, they must break the law to obtain employment but guess who if anybody is benefitting from their social security withholding. Not them because their names don’t match the numbers.
[/quote]

Wait, so it works to get a job and pay taxes but not to cash in social programs? You’re going to have to explain that one to me.

[quote]
Yes they use “our” schools but some of them ilegales , by the way you spelled it wrong and your ignorance shined,
[/quote] yep, spelling mistake compaired to you not being able to form a paragraph.

Great, so after we pay for their primary education and pay for program to teach them to speak english, we can pay for them to go to college. I don’t expect you to understand how we pay for their college.

Hmmm…I wonder why? I supposed nothing got done in these cities before they where overrun with illegals.

Why wouldn’t we have standards? We have incredible social programs here that cost money. Why wouldn’t we select those that can MOST contribute to this expensive society we have here.

[quote]
No, picking my spring salad mix doesn’t apply. A pregnant woman with her husband on the other side with no income doesn’t meet that criteria. In other words, if it was so easy everyone would be doing it.

As of late, I’m willing to bet border crossings are down. Why the fuck would you risk life and limb to get to another place thats in the same economical shithole but with a different flag and language. [/quote]

It shouldn’t be so easy that everyone can do it. If you want open borders you need to get rid of the following :

Welfare
Medicare
Public financing for schools
Unemployment
Payroll tax
corporate income tax
capital gains tax
Employer health insurance requirement
OSHA
Any other local regulations on business

I know your head is hurting right now but some day you might get it. Print this out and read 10 years from now. If you still don’t get it we will know that you don’t get it now, not becuase of your age, but that you are a moron. Be sure to report back in 10 years.

67

I feel like I’m talking to a brick wall. More specifically, I’m talking to a elitist Republican moron that got the country in the shithole in the first place. Thats fine, you have your opinion and I have mine. Did I say anything about open borders? If you go back and read, I said I wasn’t for amnesty.

Yes, your mighty list numbed my brain and stalled any further action on my part. Bitch, please. Hey I have a better one: Why don’t we register all the illegal immigrants, give them all arm bands with their native flag on them and put them in “conversion camps”. Expensive, crippled, and dying society we have here. Don’t forget those chiefy. If you haven’t looked around this isn’t the same place it once was.

In conclusion, next time you buy anything, make sure it was made, picked, and packaged by legal hands only. Preferrebly white hands, in order not taint the goodness of the good.

68

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Why don’t we register all the illegal immigrants, give them all arm bands with their native flag on them and put them in “conversion camps”. Expensive, crippled, and dying society we have here. Don’t forget those chiefy. If you haven’t looked around this isn’t the same place it once was.

[/quote]

How about just deport them, and secure the borders?

69

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:

In conclusion, next time you buy anything, make sure it was made, picked, and packaged by legal hands only. Preferrebly white hands, in order not taint the goodness of the good. [/quote]

LOL

70

Peter Schiff in 2006… didn’t want to start another economic thread

Someone has earned some credibility.

71

[quote]Nich wrote:
Tyler23 wrote:
Nich wrote:
I heard a talk show host on a radio show tonight mention how he would solve the economy problems and i thought I would mention it.
he said that the AIG bailout was to the tune of 85B.

instead of giving the money to them give the 85B to the american people like the stimulus package.

every person over age of 18 and he figured about 200 million people for a round number,would get,taxed of course,400 some odd thousand dollars.

after taxes it would put almost 300 thousand in a single persons pocket and almost 600 thousand in a couples pocket.

and something like 25 million or bilion I forgot what he said,will be put right back in the form of taxes people in debt will use that to buy out the debt,homes will get paid off or paid down, solving the housing market problem
people will invest or just spend on goods that will be taxed putting money back into banks and back into the tax pot so to speak.

people will be able to afford school and be more productive,or start bussinesses that they werent able to before,adding to the economy.

AIG would still be bailed out because people will be able to pay off the loans they had they could not pay off before.

seemed to be an interesting idea to me.
I know that will never happen but what do you guys think?

I think this radio guy needs to re-check his math.

I heard this hours before and its not ver batem.
the concept is solid MY math is off I dont remember the exact number hes used just the idea I remember thinking dang I could use 300 grand.

[/quote]

Lol, Why stop at 300 grand each?

Why not give everyone 10 million dollars each? Hell why stop there, how about 10 billion each?

BTW, 300 grand x 200 million people = 60 trillion

72

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
jawara wrote:
Cut off all medical, educational, legal and housing benefits to illegal aliens immediately. Deport all illegal immigrants now in jail.

Umm, okay. I’m going to use a little bit of common sense here and a wee pinch of personal interaction with them illegals. Illegal aliens are not lawfully allowed to live and take residency in the good olde U.S of A.

They don’t like to raise red flags or any sort of flag for that matter. Requesting any sort of government aid does this. In order for you to request such services you need certain documents that they don’t possess.

You fly under the radar. Don’t make waves and try to do your best school. They strive to reach higher levels than the previous generation. They happily do the shit work and yes: they pay taxes.

 I can claim this because unlike some I'm not just parroting back what Rushmo says. I've bumped elbows with them building. I've heard their stories of the families they left behind and of their struggles in adapting to a foreign lands customs.

I also worked with some of them that refused to learn english how is that adapting?

Of their mute responses to insults. Then I look in the mirror and realize that only difference is a piece of paper which guarantees my so-called freedom. Its easy to throw stones when your inside the old mastahs Crow’s house now huh? When some one else is out on the field.

It amazes me to what extent people forget the past. Look around, we need these illegals. I have yet to see some (white) college kid out in the fields of Santa Maria picking my organic spring salad mix.

Working as an indentured slave in order to pay for their crossing at times. In my opinion, this is a mute point. Acting out on this proposition will result in nothing. This is my opinion towards the OP. Its inalienable according to the 1st. Ooh I can tell this one is going to be spicy![/quote]

I’m not sure on the exact numbers, but if you take the total number of illegal aliens in prison and multiply it by $40,000 (the cost to house one prisoner per year) that will equal a large sum of money. I’m sure it could be put to good use.

73

ok about the illegal point

how many of us in this thread has ever worked a very physical dangerous job for min wage?

74
75

[quote]dhickey wrote:
We need leagals, not illeagals. [/quote]

What you need is a dictionary.

76

[quote]Nich wrote:
ok about the illegal point

how many of us in this thread has ever worked a very physical dangerous job for min wage?

[/quote]

several, what’s you point?

77

[quote]lixy wrote:
dhickey wrote:
We need leagals, not illeagals.

What you need is a dictionary.[/quote]

touche…or is it touchea?

78

[quote]Nich wrote:
ok about the illegal point

how many of us in this thread has ever worked a very physical dangerous job for min wage?

[/quote]

Does the military count as dangerous and minimum wage?

79

Theres “illegals” in the military as well. Fight our stupid fucking war and will give you maybe, possibly, don’t hold your breath citizenship. Thats their bargaining chip. Tragically, some of them don’t come back like my buddy. Fighting for a country that wants his “kind” out. Since the day of the founding fathers, hypocrisy has always been plentiful in our land.

80

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Theres “illegals” in the military as well. Fight our stupid fucking war and will give you maybe, possibly, don’t hold your breath citizenship. Thats their bargaining chip. Tragically, some of them don’t come back like my buddy. Fighting for a country that wants his “kind” out. Since the day of the founding fathers, hypocrisy has always been plentiful in our land. [/quote]

His “kind?” Yes, illegals, buh-bye.