How to Fix Our Economy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

The deindustrialization of America that it’s led to.

It’s a dangerous road to be on when every old factory town begins looking like Youngstown. [/quote]

Tarriffs are subsidies to a particular industry and a direct tax on the consumer, plain and simple. If I want to buy a TV from China, I should have every right to. Free trade is the ultimate democracy. The people chose what goods get purchased from where. You can sit on your ass and whine about people choosing not to buy from you, or you can take some initiative and do something that is actually valued. Pretty simple.

42

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea well we’re perishing. And that ain’t good.[/quote]

Who is we?

43

To a certain degree I sympathize with you FightinIrish. I’ve watched as factories have moved out and seen what it does to a community. But protectionism isn’t the answer. That capital will move. With labor costs so cheap in other countries, we cannot “keep” some of the jobs we currently “have.”

I think the answer isn’t protectionism, but innovation. Yeah, labor costs in the third world are a heck of a lot less, so we need jobs in the US that “cannot be exported” (as the candidates are so fond of saying). Americans have some of the highest levels of education in the world, we should use this strength.

We should, I think, continue to examine the WTO. There are some serious issues there.

44

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
To a certain degree I sympathize with you FightinIrish. I’ve watched as factories have moved out and seen what it does to a community. But protectionism isn’t the answer. That capital will move. With labor costs so cheap in other countries, we cannot “keep” some of the jobs we currently “have.”

I think the answer isn’t protectionism, but innovation. Yeah, labor costs in the third world are a heck of a lot less, so we need jobs in the US that “cannot be exported” (as the candidates are so fond of saying). Americans have some of the highest levels of education in the world, we should use this strength.

We should, I think, continue to examine the WTO. There are some serious issues there. [/quote]

Get rid of punitive labor unions and some manufacturing will come back. The Japaneses are doing quite well building cars in our country without the millstone of labor unions around their neck.

Hell, Ford and GM would probably turn a profit if it weren’t for the fixed overhead of excessive labor union demands.

45

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Get rid of punitive labor unions and some manufacturing will come back. The Japaneses are doing quite well building cars in our country without the millstone of labor unions around their neck.

Hell, Ford and GM would probably turn a profit if it weren’t for the fixed overhead of excessive labor union demands. [/quote]

We don’t need to get rid of them, we just need get rid of one-sided labor laws. Without gov’t protection of unions and unfair labor laws, most will probable find them of little use.

46

The US is an exporter of services. Technological advances here make that industry much more profitable.

Why should we force companies into a backward progression (less economical position) for the purpose of protecting manufacturing jobs? This is a position that is prohibitive to technological advancement.

With a weakened economy some of these blue collar workers may get their wish despite how bad it would be for their own well being.

47

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Hell, Ford and GM would probably turn a profit if it weren’t for the fixed overhead of excessive labor union demands. [/quote]

Now I’m agreeing with you, for a change. I’ll add airlines to that list.

48

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Get rid of punitive labor unions and some manufacturing will come back. The Japaneses are doing quite well building cars in our country without the millstone of labor unions around their neck.

Hell, Ford and GM would probably turn a profit if it weren’t for the fixed overhead of excessive labor union demands. [/quote]

I am loathe to go against the unions… but I have to admit that a union that desires to claim profits no matter what the cost to the company is no better than the very things they formed to fight against.

Unions used to be a source of price… oh how they have fallen since…

49

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
To a certain degree I sympathize with you FightinIrish. I’ve watched as factories have moved out and seen what it does to a community.

But protectionism isn’t the answer. That capital will move. With labor costs so cheap in other countries, we cannot “keep” some of the jobs we currently “have.”

I think the answer isn’t protectionism, but innovation. Yeah, labor costs in the third world are a heck of a lot less, so we need jobs in the US that “cannot be exported” (as the candidates are so fond of saying). Americans have some of the highest levels of education in the world, we should use this strength.
[/quote]

I think you have valid points. The push for every child to go to college does mean that, God willing, poeple will not have to do double shifts on factory floors.

However, a certain amount of manufacturing should be kept here.

[quote]
We should, I think, continue to examine the WTO. There are some serious issues there. [/quote]

I agree

50

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Get rid of punitive labor unions and some manufacturing will come back. The Japaneses are doing quite well building cars in our country without the millstone of labor unions around their neck.

Hell, Ford and GM would probably turn a profit if it weren’t for the fixed overhead of excessive labor union demands. [/quote]

I am loathe to go against the unions… but I have to admit that a union that desires to claim profits no matter what the cost to the company is no better than the very things they formed to fight against.

Unions used to be a source of price… oh how they have fallen since…

51

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
Nich wrote:
I heard a talk show host on a radio show tonight mention how he would solve the economy problems and i thought I would mention it.
he said that the AIG bailout was to the tune of 85B.

instead of giving the money to them give the 85B to the american people like the stimulus package.

every person over age of 18 and he figured about 200 million people for a round number,would get,taxed of course,400 some odd thousand dollars.

after taxes it would put almost 300 thousand in a single persons pocket and almost 600 thousand in a couples pocket.

and something like 25 million or bilion I forgot what he said,will be put right back in the form of taxes people in debt will use that to buy out the debt,homes will get paid off or paid down, solving the housing market problem
people will invest or just spend on goods that will be taxed putting money back into banks and back into the tax pot so to speak.

people will be able to afford school and be more productive,or start bussinesses that they werent able to before,adding to the economy.

AIG would still be bailed out because people will be able to pay off the loans they had they could not pay off before.

seemed to be an interesting idea to me.
I know that will never happen but what do you guys think?

I think this radio guy needs to re-check his math.

[/quote]

I heard this hours before and its not ver batem.
the concept is solid MY math is off I dont remember the exact number hes used just the idea I remember thinking dang I could use 300 grand.

52

[quote]jawara wrote:
Cut off all medical, educational, legal and housing benefits to illegal aliens immediately. Deport all illegal immigrants now in jail.
[/quote]

Umm, okay. I’m going to use a little bit of common sense here and a wee pinch of personal interaction with them illegals. Illegal aliens are not lawfully allowed to live and take residency in the good olde U.S of A.

They don’t like to raise red flags or any sort of flag for that matter. Requesting any sort of government aid does this. In order for you to request such services you need certain documents that they don’t possess.

You fly under the radar. Don’t make waves and try to do your best school. They strive to reach higher levels than the previous generation. They happily do the shit work and yes: they pay taxes.

 I can claim this because unlike some I'm not just parroting back what Rushmo says. I've bumped elbows with them building. I've heard their stories of the families they left behind and of their struggles in adapting to a foreign lands customs.

Of their mute responses to insults. Then I look in the mirror and realize that only difference is a piece of paper which guarantees my so-called freedom. Its easy to throw stones when your inside the old mastahs Crow’s house now huh? When some one else is out on the field.

It amazes me to what extent people forget the past. Look around, we need these illegals. I have yet to see some (white) college kid out in the fields of Santa Maria picking my organic spring salad mix.

Working as an indentured slave in order to pay for their crossing at times. In my opinion, this is a mute point. Acting out on this proposition will result in nothing. This is my opinion towards the OP. Its inalienable according to the 1st. Ooh I can tell this one is going to be spicy!

53

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
jawara wrote:
Cut off all medical, educational, legal and housing benefits to illegal aliens immediately. Deport all illegal immigrants now in jail.

Umm, okay. I’m going to use a little bit of common sense here and a wee pinch of personal interaction with them illegals. Illegal aliens are not lawfully allowed to live and take residency in the good olde U.S of A.

They don’t like to raise red flags or any sort of flag for that matter. Requesting any sort of government aid does this. In order for you to request such services you need certain documents that they don’t possess. You fly under the radar.

Don’t make waves and try to do your best school. They strive to reach higher levels than the previous generation. They happily do the shit work and yes: they pay taxes.

 I can claim this because unlike some I'm not just parroting back what Rushmo says. I've bumped elbows with them building. I've heard their stories of the families they left behind and of their struggles in adapting to a foreign lands customs.

Of their mute responses to insults. Then I look in the mirror and realize that only difference is a piece of paper which guarantees my so-called freedom. Its easy to throw stones when your inside the old mastahs Crow’s house now huh? When some one else is out on the field.

It amazes me to what extent people forget the past. Look around, we need these illegals. I have yet to see some (white) college kid out in the fields of Santa Maria picking my organic spring salad mix.

Working as an indentured slave in order to pay for their crossing at times. In my opinion, this is a mute point. Acting out on this proposition will result in nothing. This is my opinion towards the OP.

Its inalienable according to the 1st. Ooh I can tell this one is going to be spicy![/quote]

Amen.

Every brother goin through the struggle should be allowed to stay and work as he pleases, and should be naturalized.

Everyone complains about how lazy Americans are, and then they want to throw out the only ones who work…

54

Now now, I’m not for amnesty due to the fact that you always get a turd in a batch of peaches. I believe that their should be a easier path towards achieveing residency and a path towards citizenship than the way it is now.

I don’t want gang-banging cholo bastards becoming citizens overnight. Certain members of my family had to pay thousands and had to take a number and wait in line with the fear that the judge will simply say “fuck you” and deport you.

I’m talking close to 10 grand. That includes attorneys fees and government fucking you fees. I think the whole illegal immigration issue is placed in the back burner. The country has to worry about other more important issues. Issues that are ailing her now, namely steroids :wink:

55

Rather than blaming the unions, look at the cost of providing labor with medical insurance. We add crazy high medical expenses to the cost of labor. I Europe, medical expenses are much lower than in the US.

To me, this is one of those cases where free markets have been proven to be an inefficient means to provide a service. We are paying about $7K per person for medical care, but the French (who are actually more productive per hour than Americans) pay only about $4K per year and they are on the high end in Europe.

The point of any economic system is to allocate scarce resources. In many cases, a market economy is efficient. But that is an emperical observation, not a law of nature.

In science, an experiment always trumps a theory. Theory must conform to fact, not the other way around. So if socialized medicine is more cost effective, why not give it a go? It works, it saves money, it helps everyone.

I think we need to make our economy more efficient. Use market almost all of the time, use socialism when it is proven to be more efficient. Downsize the military and have it focus on homeland defense, not projecting power at great economic expense. In short, we need results not ideology.

56

I am not sure if these actions would fix anything but yesterday I called my congressional rep in DC and told her (Betty McCollum) that she had better not vote in favor of a bailout.

I hold her that I would be walking around my neighborhood making sure all of her supporters and non-supporters were aware of these actions and the consequences if they were to go thru with Senior Bush’s idea for a fix.

57

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
credit for exports, tariffs for imports.
tax cut across the board
decrease spending by 15% immediately, working up from there.
Kill income tax and inheritance tax.
No benefits for illegal aliens.
Tort reform
[/quote]

You have absolutly no idea what you are talking about.

Credit for exports = subsidy = tax on someone
Tarrifs for imports = tax on consumer

So with this you are essentially proping up select industries at the expense of the tax payer.

What will happen when you encourage exports while discouraging imports? How are other countries going to pay for the goods we want to export if we don’t import? You haven’t thought through the exchange of money and goods are paid for.

58

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I am not sure if these actions would fix anything but yesterday I called my congressional rep in DC and told her (Betty McCollum) that she had better not vote in favor of a bailout.

I hold her that I would be walking around my neighborhood making sure all of her supporters and non-supporters were aware of these actions and the consequences if they were to go thru with Senior Bush’s idea for a fix.[/quote]

It is not going to help. Polls show that only 7% (pre bush speach) support the bailout. They are going to pass it anyway. Amazing.

59

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:

Umm, okay. I’m going to use a little bit of common sense here and a wee pinch of personal interaction with them illegals. Illegal aliens are not lawfully allowed to live and take residency in the good olde U.S of A.
[/quote]
You’re not using any common sense but I’ll help you out.

Complete bullshit. Do their kids go to school? Where do they go for medical care? I guess California isn’t going bankrupt? I guess they aren’t stealing social security numbers? I wonder why the local news stations are lying about the busts that have been happening up here (MN, IA).

So they don’t have documentation to collect benefits, but do have documentation to pay taxes? Interesting.

Great story. I am sure the ones waiting to get in LEGALLY have the same stories.

I guess all that shit about unemployment rate shooting up when school let out because college and highshcool kids couldn’t find jobs was a hoax. What about the ones doing factory work? What about the ones working at every fast food resturant? I seem to remember white kids doing these jobs. My white wife and all of her white freinds use to work in the fields every summer detassling corn.
[/quote]
Working as an indentured slave in order to pay for their crossing at times. In my opinion, this is a mute point. Acting out on this proposition will result in nothing. This is my opinion towards the OP. Its inalienable according to the 1st. Ooh I can tell this one is going to be spicy![/quote]

So there are no undocumented illeagals. There is no black market labor undercutting law abiding workers and businesses. There are no illeagles with fake SS numbers. None of them are using our schools or hospitals. They all pay taxes. None of them are criminals.

How about we actually control who comes in here? How about me make sure everyone that is here and wants job has one? How about we reward those who follow our laws and are waiting in line? Those are people we need. We need leagals, not illeagals.

60

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Every brother goin through the struggle should be allowed to stay and work as he pleases, and should be naturalized.

Everyone complains about how lazy Americans are, and then they want to throw out the only ones who work…

[/quote]

It’s same people that complain about factories closings and people being out of work that also claim we need ILLEGAL (not legal) immigrants to work that nobody else would do.