[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Hydrogen powered cars would be a real alternative though, no?
[/quote]
No. Hydrogen gas is produced by electrolysis with water. You still currently have to burn coal or oil to fuel a hydrogen car.[/quote]
Well, that sucks.
Is there anything that is a real alternative?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The electric car doesn’t do any good whatsoever without either a brand new source for electricity or nuclear. period.
To fully reduce our carbon footprint we could just stop breathing.[/quote]
This is a good point and one that seems to be lost on many people. I always find myself explaining to people that electric cars are not in and of themselves “green” and that, in fact, the case can be made that they are less environmentally friendly since most of American electricity comes from coal and the burning of coal is in many ways dirtier (FAR more particulate matter) than the burning of gasoline.
Hopefully though advancements in technology will soon drive alternative sources into the cost-effective category. My highest hopes are for wind–it has the potential to become our cheapest and easiest source of energy and we have the added benefit of being one of the most blessed countries on Earth when it comes to wind maps. Solar Thermal Tower technology is also exciting though it seems less feasible in the near future.[/quote]
Wind power is still mindbogglingly expensive and additionally to inconsistent to be a power base.[/quote]
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/ieo06/special_topics.html
There is a chart on the bottom right. The cost isn’t as bad as people think and it is constantly decreasing. The cost of harvesting wind for energy on a large scale has fallen by 500% since the 1980s and no there is no sign of this trend reversing–in fact widespread mass manufacturing of wind turbines is expected to illicit a plummet in the initial capital needed to establish a windfarm.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Hydrogen powered cars would be a real alternative though, no?
[/quote]
No. Hydrogen gas is produced by electrolysis with water. You still currently have to burn coal or oil to fuel a hydrogen car.[/quote]
Well, that sucks.
Is there anything that is a real alternative?[/quote]
If the goal is to cut CO2 and particulates, the only current technology that could accomplish it is nuclear. And given what is going on in Japan people here will probably be too irrationally scared of it.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Hydrogen powered cars would be a real alternative though, no?
[/quote]
No. Hydrogen gas is produced by electrolysis with water. You still currently have to burn coal or oil to fuel a hydrogen car.[/quote]
Well, that sucks.
Is there anything that is a real alternative?[/quote]
If the goal is to cut CO2 and particulates, the only current technology that could accomplish it is nuclear. And given what is going on in Japan people here will probably be too irrationally scared of it.[/quote]
True, irrational being the operative word.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The electric car doesn’t do any good whatsoever without either a brand new source for electricity or nuclear. period.
To fully reduce our carbon footprint we could just stop breathing.[/quote]
This is a good point and one that seems to be lost on many people. I always find myself explaining to people that electric cars are not in and of themselves “green” and that, in fact, the case can be made that they are less environmentally friendly since most of American electricity comes from coal and the burning of coal is in many ways dirtier (FAR more particulate matter) than the burning of gasoline.
Hopefully though advancements in technology will soon drive alternative sources into the cost-effective category. My highest hopes are for wind–it has the potential to become our cheapest and easiest source of energy and we have the added benefit of being one of the most blessed countries on Earth when it comes to wind maps. Solar Thermal Tower technology is also exciting though it seems less feasible in the near future.[/quote]
Wind power is still mindbogglingly expensive and additionally to inconsistent to be a power base.[/quote]
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/ieo06/special_topics.html
There is a chart on the bottom right. The cost isn’t as bad as people think and it is constantly decreasing. The cost of harvesting wind for energy on a large scale has fallen by 500% since the 1980s and no there is no sign of this trend reversing–in fact widespread mass manufacturing of wind turbines is expected to illicit a plummet in the initial capital needed to establish a windfarm.[/quote]
You should look more closely at what went into that. The “levelised” cost includes taxes. In other words that chart is for potential investors who would get money from taxes in a wind farm and have money taken away by taxes on a coal plant. Looking on the total cost on everyone (the real cost of the energy that has to be payed by someone, in this instance the tax payer) wind power is not reasonable. This chart is omitting the cost to the tax payer.
Okay so I watch the first 20 minutes and almost vomited. This sudo-religious mysticism nature stuff is nauseating.
I love the planet, I love nature, I want to take care of it for my kids, but a tree is still just a fucking tree.
There is sooo much made up BS in that movie. It’s almost literally a long sustained stream of un-supported or entirely made up claims.
People need to realize, most of what you do “for the environment” serves little more than to make you feel good about yourself. If we want to truly come together as a society and make a real change, it has to be done through rationality, not emotion.
Things like electric, hydrogen, and hybrid cars are a good example of emotional decisions. They sound good, but rationally don’t do any good but to make people feel better about themselves. All the while costing me (a tax payer) tons of money.
Before I can take the green movement seriously rational people need to get back in control of it and end the emotional hi-jack, which is what this movie is.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Okay so I watch the first 20 minutes and almost vomited. This sudo-religious mysticism nature stuff is nauseating.
I love the planet, I love nature, I want to take care of it for my kids, but a tree is still just a fucking tree.
There is sooo much made up BS in that movie. It’s almost literally a long sustained stream of un-supported or entirely made up claims.
People need to realize, most of what you do “for the environment” serves little more than to make you feel good about yourself. If we want to truly come together as a society and make a real change, it has to be done through rationality, not emotion.
Things like electric, hydrogen, and hybrid cars are a good example of emotional decisions. They sound good, but rationally don’t do any good but to make people feel better about themselves. All the while costing me (a tax payer) tons of money.
Before I can take the green movement seriously rational people need to get back in control of it and end the emotional hi-jack, which is what this movie is.[/quote]
Well, the same goes for Zeitgeist, if you’ve seen it.
Lots of cleverly worded and convincingly delivered scripting.
I’m losing more and more faith in humanity as days go by.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The electric car doesn’t do any good whatsoever without either a brand new source for electricity or nuclear. period.
To fully reduce our carbon footprint we could just stop breathing.[/quote]
This is a good point and one that seems to be lost on many people. I always find myself explaining to people that electric cars are not in and of themselves “green” and that, in fact, the case can be made that they are less environmentally friendly since most of American electricity comes from coal and the burning of coal is in many ways dirtier (FAR more particulate matter) than the burning of gasoline.
Hopefully though advancements in technology will soon drive alternative sources into the cost-effective category. My highest hopes are for wind–it has the potential to become our cheapest and easiest source of energy and we have the added benefit of being one of the most blessed countries on Earth when it comes to wind maps. Solar Thermal Tower technology is also exciting though it seems less feasible in the near future.[/quote]
Wind power is still mindbogglingly expensive and additionally to inconsistent to be a power base.[/quote]
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/ieo06/special_topics.html
There is a chart on the bottom right. The cost isn’t as bad as people think and it is constantly decreasing. The cost of harvesting wind for energy on a large scale has fallen by 500% since the 1980s and no there is no sign of this trend reversing–in fact widespread mass manufacturing of wind turbines is expected to illicit a plummet in the initial capital needed to establish a windfarm.[/quote]
You should look more closely at what went into that. The “levelised” cost includes taxes. In other words that chart is for potential investors who would get money from taxes in a wind farm and have money taken away by taxes on a coal plant. Looking on the total cost on everyone (the real cost of the energy that has to be payed by someone, in this instance the tax payer) wind power is not reasonable. This chart is omitting the cost to the tax payer.[/quote]
I understand that, but since those taxes are a reality, they shouldn’t necessarily be excluded.
If you were to figure in the real cost (it is incalculable) of fossil fuels including the cost of fixing the damage we have done down the road and the political/military cost of dependence on foreign oil, it could be absolutely astronomical.
Either way, I agree that alternative fuels are too costly at the moment. Their pricetag is ever decreasing, however, and we should all hope that at some point soon they become cost-effective.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The electric car doesn’t do any good whatsoever without either a brand new source for electricity or nuclear. period.
To fully reduce our carbon footprint we could just stop breathing.[/quote]
This is a good point and one that seems to be lost on many people. I always find myself explaining to people that electric cars are not in and of themselves “green” and that, in fact, the case can be made that they are less environmentally friendly since most of American electricity comes from coal and the burning of coal is in many ways dirtier (FAR more particulate matter) than the burning of gasoline.
Hopefully though advancements in technology will soon drive alternative sources into the cost-effective category. My highest hopes are for wind–it has the potential to become our cheapest and easiest source of energy and we have the added benefit of being one of the most blessed countries on Earth when it comes to wind maps. Solar Thermal Tower technology is also exciting though it seems less feasible in the near future.[/quote]
Wind power is still mindbogglingly expensive and additionally to inconsistent to be a power base.[/quote]
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/ieo06/special_topics.html
There is a chart on the bottom right. The cost isn’t as bad as people think and it is constantly decreasing. The cost of harvesting wind for energy on a large scale has fallen by 500% since the 1980s and no there is no sign of this trend reversing–in fact widespread mass manufacturing of wind turbines is expected to illicit a plummet in the initial capital needed to establish a windfarm.[/quote]
You should look more closely at what went into that. The “levelised” cost includes taxes. In other words that chart is for potential investors who would get money from taxes in a wind farm and have money taken away by taxes on a coal plant. Looking on the total cost on everyone (the real cost of the energy that has to be payed by someone, in this instance the tax payer) wind power is not reasonable. This chart is omitting the cost to the tax payer.[/quote]
I understand that, but since those taxes are a reality, they shouldn’t necessarily be excluded.
If you were to figure in the real cost (it is incalculable) of fossil fuels including the cost of fixing the damage we have done down the road and the political/military cost of dependence on foreign oil, it could be absolutely astronomical.
Either way, I agree that alternative fuels are too costly at the moment. Their price tag is ever decreasing, however, and we should all hope that at some point soon they become cost-effective.[/quote]
No, the cost of taxes should not be omitted like they were in that graph. all that does is shift the burden of paying for the cost of the increase. If we were to subsidize coal plants it doesn’t make coal more economically beneficial, it just means that public money is paying private energy bills. The money is still being payed its just a different channel.
The only reason to look at it the way it was graphed is if you are looking to invest in something and make money, Not if you are discussing the cost and viability of an energy source.
Another thing to consider: the cost of climate change left unchecked will some day be calculated in a currency far more morbid than dollars and cents.
People talk about massive flooding and catastrophic weather events, and they may some day be a reality but there are far more important concerns for us that could potentially lie in waiting just down the road. Our ecosystem lies at a beautiful balance and is extremely sensitive to temperature. In 535 AD, either an enormous meteorite impact or a catastrophic volcanic eruption in Indonesia caused a dust-veil event that warmed the Earth’s average temperature by just a few degrees.
That change was enough to disturb a huge number of local ecosystems across the globe, including populations of burrowing rats in central Africa, who for the first time in history came into sustained contact with the human race. The result was the world’s first pandemic outbreak of Bubonic Plague and the decimation of human populations across most of Eurasia over the course of the next two centuries.
What other demons lie in wait in dark mysterious holes, praying for even the slightest chance to spring their trap? We will know only when it is too late.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Another thing to consider: the cost of climate change left unchecked will some day be calculated in a currency far more morbid than dollars and cents.
People talk about massive flooding and catastrophic weather events, and they may some day be a reality but there are far more important concerns for us that could potentially lie in waiting just down the road.[/quote]
I can almost guarantee that someone will discover it, and exploit it to it’s full potential. Or at least make it up.
'Scuse me if I’m rambling tonight, it’s an evening of drinking for me.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
[quote]24Animal7 wrote:
Great watch, I hope to own a home with solar panels on the roof someday[/quote]
Me too man.
I’m glad someone took the time to watch the whole thing. Funny how there are so many people on this site and something as important as this only has 1 response, meanwhile all these meaningless threads blow up with hundreds of reply’s. I know it’s long but the information here could change the outlook on how you treat planet earth. If we as a race don’t make a conscious effort to change, there won’t be much hope for our existence in the future.
[/quote]
I want to power my house with coal and diesel engines. About eight of them going 24/7.
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
They say we have 10 year to make a global effort to change the way we live? Forget about that. The world is chaos and the only thing humans do is argue and fight each other.
Better start figuring a way to control population. Sterilization is a good way. I would start by the retarded part of the world. [/quote]
I’m sure you wouldn’t mind going in front of the line.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
They say we have 10 year to make a global effort to change the way we live? Forget about that. The world is chaos and the only thing humans do is argue and fight each other.
Better start figuring a way to control population. Sterilization is a good way. I would start by the retarded part of the world. [/quote]
For real.
My views are that people should stop trying to ‘fund’ poverty and let things take their course. You’re only delaying the inevitable and wasting time and resources. I suspect that any organization actually ‘helping’ them is making a nice profit from donations they receive anyway. Charities like the Red Cross pride themselves by saying they donate at least 10% of all funding they receive, it’s fucking disgraceful.
Name one African country that has come out better and actually developing and progressing as a result of funding.[/quote]
This is incorrect. You really think African countries haven’t developed or progressed at all? The economical and standards of living would have to disagree with you.
[quote]
None, because they are run by power hungry cunts that have no ones interests at heart except their own; they steal, lie and kill anyone who opposes them.[/quote]
So, because they have bad men in power we shouldn’t help them? That makes zero sense. You’re just a plain dick so no one should help you.
Yeah, you’re just ignorant. This isn’t even close to being true. You’d do better just to keep to yourself before people find out that you don’t know what you’re talking about or you drink a little too much out of your own bath.
Algae synthesising crude oil. It’s the future I tell ya
As for reducing emissions unless there is massive investment in research and development into alternate fuels, and not just them but the creation of new fertilisers (which are not phosphate based) transportation methods, we will go back to a seventeenth century style lifestyle and population without fossil fuels. The modern age simply cannot survive without them
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
They say we have 10 year to make a global effort to change the way we live? Forget about that. The world is chaos and the only thing humans do is argue and fight each other.
Better start figuring a way to control population. Sterilization is a good way. I would start by the retarded part of the world. [/quote]
For real.
My views are that people should stop trying to ‘fund’ poverty and let things take their course. You’re only delaying the inevitable and wasting time and resources. I suspect that any organization actually ‘helping’ them is making a nice profit from donations they receive anyway. Charities like the Red Cross pride themselves by saying they donate at least 10% of all funding they receive, it’s fucking disgraceful.
Name one African country that has come out better and actually developing and progressing as a result of funding.[/quote]
This is incorrect. You really think African countries haven’t developed or progressed at all? The economical and standards of living would have to disagree with you.
[quote]
None, because they are run by power hungry cunts that have no ones interests at heart except their own; they steal, lie and kill anyone who opposes them.[/quote]
So, because they have bad men in power we shouldn’t help them? That makes zero sense. You’re just a plain dick so no one should help you.
Yeah, you’re just ignorant. This isn’t even close to being true. You’d do better just to keep to yourself before people find out that you don’t know what you’re talking about or you drink a little too much out of your own bath.[/quote]
OK, How many of years of your life have you spent living in Africa?
I GREW UP THERE. I lived there till I was 21. Don’t tell me how things run there, or call me a dick.
Give me some example of progress there. Yes, there are some exceptions; the large majority of the place need major reconstruction.
I’m not here to argue or expect anyone to take the video to heart.
We as a whole don’t respect nature, that is fact. Look at the way we treat animals and people, for what? for a piece of fucking paper that has no meaning to anything except us.
How stupid is that? we support the CRUEL murder of millions of animals and thousands of innocent people each year because we are here at home nice and comfortable. Who gives a fuck right? We have hot water, cars, food, shelter with: tv’s, computers, why should we give a shit? that mentality will be our death.
I understand we are animals and the selfish mentality is in our genes BUT we also have the most advanced brain on earth as far as we know.
No one wants to give up comfort and luxury for the NEEDS of someone else. It’s sad really.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
No one wants to give up comfort and luxury for the NEEDS of someone else. It’s sad really.[/quote]
Or we could gradually reduce the world population so that everyone could own 8 hummers, live in maximum comfort and it wouldnt make any diff. on the environment.
Or we could live in poverty, abstinence and overcrowded place because we want to let everyone have kids (pop control is something which is disgusting for alot of people -some ppl are more connected to the animal it seems).
Your choice: act like a normal animal population and wait for a disaster to happen. Or use the brain
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
No one wants to give up comfort and luxury for the NEEDS of someone else. It’s sad really.[/quote]
Or we could gradually reduce the world population so that everyone could own 8 hummers, live in maximum comfort and it wouldnt make any diff. on the environment.
Or we could live in poverty, abstinence and overcrowded place because we want to let everyone have kids (pop control is something which is disgusting for alot of people -some ppl are more connected to the animal it seems).
Your choice: act like a normal animal population and wait for a disaster to happen. Or use the brain
[/quote]
A disaster is already happening. Just because you are not in it doesn’t mean there isn’t fucked up shit happening all over the world.
Who is you or me to tell anyone that they cant have kids or that they can only have a set amount? I mean can you imagine? you have your one kid and then get castrated.
cop:“you’re going to jail sir”
guy:“why?”
cop:“are you fucking stupid? you had 2 kids!!!”
I can just see it already. The rich being allowed to have how ever many children they want while the average population being the ones following the “law”.
Why does it have to be black or white? There is a middle ground, we have an advanced brain but we are still animals. There are ways to fix shit because there are enough resources for everyone, but like i said, no one wants to give up anything for someone else.
Earth doesn’t need us humans to survive BUT we do need earth.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
A disaster is already happening. Just because you are not in it doesn’t mean there isn’t fucked up shit happening all over the world.
.[/quote]
Yes. No one sees the big picture.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Who is you or me to tell anyone that they cant have kids or that they can only have a set amount? I mean can you imagine? you have your one kid and then get castrated. I can just see it already. The rich being allowed to have how ever many children they want while the average population being the ones following the “law”.[/quote]
A law like this would never pass and even if it would it would be chaotic.
What we really need and I already said it on another thread is some third party undergoing a mass secret sterilisation of the people without any discrimination. I am not gonna say it again because some religious guy might report me the to CIA as a child murderer terrorist from what Ive seen. And maybe post a video of some liberal teacher exploding the head of some children in the school for the environment.
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Why does it have to be black or white? There is a middle ground, we have an advanced brain but we are still animals. There are ways to fix shit because there are enough resources for everyone, but like i said, no one wants to give up anything for someone else.
.[/quote]
Then we have to agree what is gonna fix the problems. Not going to happen