How Much Do You Know About Christianity?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
642

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
All you have done is provide the rationale you use for not believing in a specific interpretation of Christianity (or did you intend that for all religions TCD?), not sure what you want me to do about the internal struggles you have with that interpretation . . . .

If you dont choose what you believe than religion is bogus.

You dont have to get into the little nitty details of christianity to prove or disprove it. Thats my point.

Still not sure what the topic is that you are wishing to discuss and still waiting for the base construct here . . .

I am assuming that you did get to choose what you believe, so I guess religion is not bogus. Or am I wrong and you did not choose to believe what you currently believe?[/quote]

"Since your mind cannot conceive the topic being discussed, you come a little unprepared to deal with the questions. You should expand your mind a bit more and then come back when you have the capacity to deal with the issues. "

You definately need to go back and read what I originally wrote. Let it really sink in.

643

The Gamma Ray Burst does not fit into a creation model at all. Nothing fits into a “creation model” because no such thing exists. Creation has no scientific merit, as the final answer can be and always is “God did it”.

Roughly 13,000,000,000 years ago a star exploded and released a Gamma Ray burst, the light energy, traveling a touch over 186,000 miles/second, reached Earth last month. That light has been traveling 13,000,000,000 years. These are facts, scientifically recorded and justified.

To argue them any further is a waste of effort, as nobody who wouldn’t have already conceded to them will not be swayed by a stranger on the web. It is fun to discuss and argue them, but I feel like this has degenerated into the same old argument that it always does.

Facts and scientific observations are cited, logic is applied and the creation model weakens considerably, and the supporters with nothing to work with, aside from passages from the same book being argued against, immediately retreat to their last line of defense, God.

Unless I’m mistaken, I’m now suppose to infer that God put that Gamma Ray Burst energy into play at the time of creation so that it would hit us and we’d read it and so on. I can’t help but feel like this is a desperate attempt at a justification for a theory that has lost all other merit.

People are free to pray and worship and do whatever they see fit, but to deny hard facts despite mountains of evidence is foolish, not a sign of faith.

644

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
mbm693 wrote:
PS. I’m not sure why you think you’re insulting me, or demeaning my arguments, by saying things like ‘You are not a thinking individual with a self-identity, you are merely a random set of parts acting in a pre-determined way.’ That is actually what I think,

Sorry to barge in like this, but who is it then who’s doing the thinking?
[/quote]

Excellent question Katz - I’m beginning to question whether there is any thinking going on in there at all . . . quite the paradox he has created for himself . . . wonder which neuron will win that one . . .

645

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Jeffe wrote:

Nowhere did I say I can conceive of a deity that can create anything. Ever. Much less can I conceive of a deity able to bring everything from no-thing and be too tired to work on a Sunday. Come on, a day of rest? Open your eyes.

Hey, no problem - if your mind is too small to conceive of the basic concept of any deity, why are you even in a religion thread to begin with? Since your mind cannot conceive the topic being discussed, you come a little unprepared to deal with the questions. You should expand your mind a bit more and then come back when you have the capacity to deal with the issues.
[/quote]

I don’t think you quite understood the actual meaning of my comment…obviously I understand the concept of a creator God, otherwise I wouldn’t even know how this argument should play out. To clarify, I meant that, to me, the idea of a creator God that can build literally everything and need a day to rest strikes me as…off.

In my mind the idea that a creator deity decided that he needed an entire massive Universe just to play around with one planet seems…off.

And anyone who would reply to my comment, obviously without reading any of my previous posts which would clearly indicate that I do have the capacity to participate in this debate, strikes me as…off, as well.

646

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Jeffe wrote:

Not a single one has come up with a theory that ever has the speed of light increasing. Not once. Not ever.

Exactly. And decreasing light speed makes sense in the context of the creation model.

That means that the next concept, that God popped the beams of light into place at the moment of creation, is the only obstacle remaining. The wonderful thing about this argument is that it has absolutely no logical foundation and yet no proof for or against it.

It fits the creation model. It makes sense theologically too. It is consistent with the Genesis account. Dispute it as you will though. [/quote]

would this be the right time to tell el jeffe about this article?

Apparently some evolutionist did come up with a theory that light traveled faster at some point . . . what was el jeffe’s point again?

647

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
All you have done is provide the rationale you use for not believing in a specific interpretation of Christianity (or did you intend that for all religions TCD?), not sure what you want me to do about the internal struggles you have with that interpretation . . . .

If you dont choose what you believe than religion is bogus.

You dont have to get into the little nitty details of christianity to prove or disprove it. Thats my point.

Still not sure what the topic is that you are wishing to discuss and still waiting for the base construct here . . .

I am assuming that you did get to choose what you believe, so I guess religion is not bogus. Or am I wrong and you did not choose to believe what you currently believe?

"Since your mind cannot conceive the topic being discussed, you come a little unprepared to deal with the questions. You should expand your mind a bit more and then come back when you have the capacity to deal with the issues. "

You definately need to go back and read what I originally wrote. Let it really sink in.

[/quote]

har har - that was as lame as a one-legged donkey . . .

I did read you mumbo-jumbo about being born somewhere to someone or something like that - but my counter-question was how do you come by what you personally believe - you chose it right? If you can choose what you believe, then why can’t I choose what I believe? If we can both choose what we believe - why can’t everyone choose what they believe - and if everyone can choose what they believe then that means your “simple” construct about religion being bogus is itself bogus . . .

648

[quote]Jeffe wrote:

I don’t think you quite understood the actual meaning of my comment…obviously I understand the concept of a creator God, otherwise I wouldn’t even know how this argument should play out. To clarify, I meant that, to me, the idea of a creator God that can build literally everything and need a day to rest strikes me as…off.

In my mind the idea that a creator deity decided that he needed an entire massive Universe just to play around with one planet seems…off.

And anyone who would reply to my comment, obviously without reading any of my previous posts which would clearly indicate that I do have the capacity to participate in this debate, strikes me as…off, as well.[/quote]

OK well, first, the Hebrew word for rest in the passage you mention is “Shabath” and it means ceased, desisted and it simply conveys the idea that God stopped creating on the seventh day - your whole point is based on a single English translation and the answer would have taken you 2 seconds to discover on the internet had you actually been interested in finding out.

As to what you think is off about the concept of deity - well, cool for you. Thanks for sharing.

651

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:

I did read you mumbo-jumbo about being born somewhere to someone or something like that - but my counter-question was how do you come by what you personally believe - you chose it right? If you can choose what you believe, then why can’t I choose what I believe? If we can both choose what we believe - why can’t everyone choose what they believe - and if everyone can choose what they believe then that means your “simple” construct about religion being bogus is itself bogus . . .[/quote]

The first humans appear on earth. All they have is what they were given. Their programming. Their ‘nature’. This nature reacting with the environment = conditioning. We listen to our bodies and minds. We create laws. Morals. Standards. Ideals. We look up to the sky… there must be something more. We create Gods. We create religions to celebrate these Gods. More laws, morals, standards… always constantly refining these. blah blah…

Many, many, many years later… You are born. You dont remember this but you acted just like all the other babies of the world. You cried when you needed food (nature) and you took shits everywhere. Basically, you ran off instinct. You are now 4 or 5. Your parents lay some conditioning on you. ex) Jesus died for you on the cross, dont talk to strangers, dont lie. Do you choose to trust them? Or do you say… “fuck you dad…what do you know?” . No. You are a blank slate (barring any mental disorders—like Obsessive Disobedient Disorder). You trust for them for they are blood (In group) and authority. Thus, their knowledge is past onto you. Just another link in the chain that started a very long time ago.

Anytime you are faced with anything new—it is checked against your prior conditioning and current status of your brain. If it holds up to your ‘knowledge bank’, than you believe it and regard it as true. ex ) 2+2= 4. not 5 for 2+2 has never been 5. This doesnt mean that someone who was indoctrinated as a kid stays a Christian their whole life. Faced with outside conditioning thats opposite than Christianity, one can reject their prior conditioning or be able to refine it if their brain allows them to ( ex- high curiosity and open mindedness for answers — this is very simplistic , but you get the jist)

I realize you think this is mumbo jumbo. There is nothing in your “knowledge bank” telling you to believe this. But that just reaffirms my position. Which is: You do not choose what you believe → and if you dont choose what you believe → an instution that is based on belief is BOGUS.

(edit- How I came to believe this? … just another link in the chain. )

652

[quote]pushharder wrote:
ephrem wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Mak, I have to tell you that you are a friend and that won’t change but your comments on this thread are completely and totally worthless. You sound like a little boy. Seriously. Time to grow up, son.

At least these other guys are willing to jump in and DEBATE. I respect them for that. You? Nope.

…peer pressure or social ostracising doesn’t work too well on free thinkers mr. Harder, it usuallly only works on those who are weak minded…

Even you, eph, are willing to get in and hash it out. Thanks.

You’re still a close-minded, wooden shoe wearing, hole in the dike lowlander sonofabitch. But I still love you.[/quote]

…nah, keep your love to yourself, we all know what happens to people who are subjected to christian love, don’t we?

[kisses]

654

[quote]pushharder wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:

I did read you mumbo-jumbo about being born somewhere to someone or something like that - but my counter-question was how do you come by what you personally believe - you chose it right? If you can choose what you believe, then why can’t I choose what I believe? If we can both choose what we believe - why can’t everyone choose what they believe - and if everyone can choose what they believe then that means your “simple” construct about religion being bogus is itself bogus . . .

The first humans appear on earth. All they have is what they were given.

Who is the “giver” in this scenario?[/quote]

a god. a spaghetti monster. It doesnt matter. I wasnt refuting a creator.

655

First off I am giving the warning that I didn’t read all of the post on the 27 pages but I will like to throw my opinion in the mix. First that test is pretty bias in the fact that it takes the most literal interpretation possible and it slants more to make the bible look dumb, which it does to itself at times.

Some times I feel that people are deterred from Christianity because of a lot of misconceptions and misinformed or misguided religious leaders. Some of these leaders have their own views and beliefs that do indeed differ from the main canon, I had a priest tell me that Satan is not real.

When they people tell you their views and than you search out a different opinion from the same religion you get a whole other answer, which will lead to a lot of confusion as to what the real belief is.

Also I hate that all christian religions get grouped together when all of them teach different beliefs, sure based on the same fundamentals but the teaching come off much different. Catholic beliefs differ from Lutheran, Methodist, orthodox, reborn,etc. All of which are ruled over by people and like all people are not perfect.

In the end the basic teaching of Christianity is that you have to love each and everyone, help them as much as you can and then give more, god truly loves you and wants you to succeed but will not interfere(if you really think about it, if you could make the person you love do everything you wanted only because you forced and not because they want or care for you would it mean the same to you?

You want your love ones to do it because they love you.) Jesus never said that you must believe in him to get into heaven, that came later. He just preached that you need to live a life based on the christian values. That could mean you have never heard of Jesus or that you have and choose not to believe in him but still live a good life. The gates are open to you, I know this is a catholic belief.

In revelations all of humanity will indeed be saved including people like hitler and your grandma. this is in there and in the belief of the catholic church.
Remember that satan can only do that which god allows him to do.
if you are no longer christian do you still believe that there is a higher power?

Sorry if I interrupted but I felt a need to put in some of what I know.

657

…for me it doesn’t matter because we can’t decide which god is the one and true god. But pretty much every believer believes their version of god is the one and true god. That tells me that it doesn’t matter which god you believe in, or what form this god has, or what name this god has, what matters is the positive influence this enigmatic and invisible ‘something’ has on the believer…

658

mbm693, you originally said:

[quote]mbm693 wrote:
PS. I’m not sure why you think you’re insulting me, or demeaning my arguments, by saying things like ‘You are not a thinking individual with a self-identity, you are merely a random set of parts acting in a pre-determined way.’ That is actually what I think, [/quote]

I asked: “who is it then who’s doing the thinking?”

You responded:

[quote]
This is a pretty ignorant question, but I’ll answer it anyway. I am a collection of chemical processes. Thinking is a chemical process. Therefore, I (the flimsy chemical consciousness between my ears) am still doing the thinking. [/quote]

Do you really not understand that you’ve put yourself in a corner here?

659

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Makavali wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Jeffe wrote:
That’s how it’s an error to say the universe was created in 6 days.

So you can conceive of a deity that can create time, the universe and all living life, but can’t create the appearance of age in all things? He can create a mature man, but not a mature universe? LOL - that was as far as you thought that one out?

More “God did it” dogma. Absolutely retarded. Sorry if that offends, but it is.

More “Mak said it” dogma. Absolutely retarded. Sorry if that offends, but it is.[/quote]

Keep up the insults all you want, but until creationist provide more than “God did it” then I’ll just sit back and laugh. Saying God did it is a cop-out and you know it.

660

[quote]pushharder wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
pushharder wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:

I did read you mumbo-jumbo about being born somewhere to someone or something like that - but my counter-question was how do you come by what you personally believe - you chose it right? If you can choose what you believe, then why can’t I choose what I believe? If we can both choose what we believe - why can’t everyone choose what they believe - and if everyone can choose what they believe then that means your “simple” construct about religion being bogus is itself bogus . . .

The first humans appear on earth. All they have is what they were given.

Who is the “giver” in this scenario?

a god. a spaghetti monster. It doesnt matter. I wasnt refuting a creator.

Why doesn’t it matter?[/quote]

Because all relgions claiming to know about the afterlife are highly suspect.