I’m beginning to wonder if you’re even a christian or if you’re just being the devil’s advocate for fun
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Oleena wrote:
Pushme, if someone a long time ago decided to replace the stories of Jonah in the whale and Daniel in the lions den with fairy tales, how would you know the difference?
Serious question. Try to abstain from not answering through dodging with bullshit or asking me a question instead of answering the one above.
pushharder wrote:
Ya know this “appeal to authority” moaning is getting a bit out of hand. The evolutionist/atheist/believer loves this little phrase. Do they teach this at “How to Debate a Creationist” symposiums?
I see citings of Dawkins, Darwin, Leakey, et al, but the AtA regulation remarkably (miraculously?) vanishes when the hallowed names of those “authorities” are invoked. An objective thinker would tend to call that a …double standard.
However, when the Lewis’, Behes, Morelands and Meyers are mentioned the fire alarm goes off, the epileptic fits erupt and and the yammering begins full force.
Interesting.
Telling.
Oleena-me, you can take my style of posting or leave it but you will not dictate to me how I will go about it.
mb693- It would appear that this thread has culminated into you and I essentially arguing the same point. What do you think? (anyone else, feel free to jump in)>
Would you rather a meth addict who was using throughout the entire pregnancy have the child or would you rather that they not get pregnant in the first place?
This is essentially the same question as the one I posed below. We can predict that the child will have limited capacities for life, and statistics show that they will most likely end up in jail, if they even make it past the first year of life in a hospital. We would prefer that children were born to healthy parents because we do not want to promote suffering of any sort in life.
God knew that much of his children would burn in hell FOREVER (according to the bible) and he still decided to have them. Burning in hell forever is much worse than being born to a drug addicted parent. If you knew that your child was going to burn in hell forever (and you knew this FOR SURE BEFORE YOU HAD IT) I bet that you would choose not to have it.
The view that his creation is a beautiful one is just a perspective. In reality, it is quite common for children to be raped before the age of 5, to turn into sexual offenders as a result and rape other children (this has happened to over 500 kids that I used to work with just in the small outskirt city where I lived). Babies are raped, and grow up with all sort of disorders that they don’t understand because most of the time they can’t remember that an object nearly as big as themselves was crammed into their tiny holes before their though process was complete (yes, this is possible). Many more grow up with parents that prostitute them out for drugs. 1000s upon 1000s are born to parents who used drugs and have personality disorders that cause them to commit horrible offenses to society that are a result of chemical imbalances resulting from the drug use during pregnancy. It would be a serious stretch of interpretive translation, according to everything that is written about how a person can get through the straight and narrow path and into heaven, for these individuals to get into Heaven. Many of them will tell you that they wish they were not born. Life is not a simple “right and wrong” process. These people are shades of grey.
God’s perspective on time has nothing to do with his responsibility for creating us, and an arbitrary set of rules that we can’t seem to follow, and then judging us according to those rules. Whether god made an ancient isrealite commit fornification isn’t the point. The point is that he made that particular isrealite with a particular nature (horny), and then imposed rules that run counter to it. God set that poor guy up to fail.
You keep mentioning these rules that god asks us to follow as if they are some inviable part of nature. If god made them, god could change them. There is no reason the world has be made in such a way that fornication is sinful.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Oleena wrote:
I’m beginning to wonder if you’re even a christian or if you’re just being the devil’s advocate for fun
As I am questioning your sincerity on this thread from the git-go. Are you a baiter? Or are you earnestly seeking answers?
[/quote]
I prefer to make sure that my opinion is backed in fact. However, why would I have this opinion if I wasn’t already pretty sure that it was? You’ll note that when someone brings up something that I have not thought of, I aknowledge it with a “That’s interesting” and don’t make fun of them or try to bullshit an answer.
Neither of us are here because we think we are wrong, but I don’t think I’m nearly as scared of the possibility as you are, judging from some of your reactions.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
mb693- It would appear that this thread has culminated into you and I essentially arguing the same point. What do you think? (anyone else, feel free to jump in)>
Would you rather a meth addict who was using throughout the entire pregnancy have the child or would you rather that they not get pregnant in the first place?
This is essentially the same question as the one I posed below. We can predict that the child will have limited capacities for life, and statistics show that they will most likely end up in jail, if they even make it past the first year of life in a hospital. We would prefer that children were born to healthy parents because we do not want to promote suffering of any sort in life.
God knew that much of his children would burn in hell FOREVER (according to the bible) and he still decided to have them. Burning in hell forever is much worse than being born to a drug addicted parent. If you knew that your child was going to burn in hell forever (and you knew this FOR SURE BEFORE YOU HAD IT) I bet that you would choose not to have it.
The view that his creation is a beautiful one is just a perspective. In reality, it is quite common for children to be raped before the age of 5, to turn into sexual offenders as a result and rape other children (this has happened to over 500 kids that I used to work with just in the small outskirt city where I lived). Babies are raped, and grow up with all sort of disorders that they don’t understand because most of the time they can’t remember that an object nearly as big as themselves was crammed into their tiny holes before their though process was complete (yes, this is possible). Many more grow up with parents that prostitute them out for drugs. 1000s upon 1000s are born to parents who used drugs and have personality disorders that cause them to commit horrible offenses to society that are a result of chemical imbalances resulting from the drug use during pregnancy. It would be a serious stretch of interpretive translation, according to everything that is written about how a person can get through the straight and narrow path and into heaven, for these individuals to get into Heaven. Many of them will tell you that they wish they were not born. Life is not a simple “right and wrong” process. These people are shades of grey.
[/quote]
I would prefer they not get pregnant in the first place.
God has not forced a single human being to commit a sin or to rebel against His will. The reality is that EVERYONE could have and the vast majority could still avoid eternal damnation - there was no set outcome[/quote] Actually, god did know what the total outcome would be. If he didn’t he wouldn’t be omniscient. Therefore, there was an outcome that god knew of. [quote] - so there can be no evil intent on His part (that is only one area of your question - here comes the main)
All you are doing is juxtaposing God’s omniscience against his omnipotence - the more classically known version has God making a rock so big he cannot lift it . . . or creating a problem so complex he could not solve it . . .
here is the root of the problem for your question and its true answer . . . OMNIPRESENCE - everywhere at every moment simultaneously
God (as Push was trying to explain) exists in the ever-present now - he is outside of time (“before Moses was I AM”) - there was no BEFORE creation and there is no AFTER creation for God - The moment of creation is the same moment for him as the judgment day - there is no linear chronological progression for God as your question tries to force him into.
Just like ForLife does not understand free will (and tries to force pre-determinism into it), you do not understand God’s omnipresence and are trying to force linear progression on a timeless being.
You sit and judge a timeless being from your limited perspective and accuse him of being evil for applying the natural consequences upon people for choices they made entirely of their own free will . . . all the while ignoring his nature and ours for a semantic construct.
God’s perspective on time has nothing to do with his responsibility for creating us, and an arbitrary set of rules that we can’t seem to follow, and then judging us according to those rules. Whether god made an ancient isrealite commit fornification isn’t the point. The point is that he made that particular isrealite with a particular nature (horny), and then imposed rules that run counter to it. God set that poor guy up to fail.
You keep mentioning these rules that god asks us to follow as if they are some inviable part of nature. If god made them, god could change them. There is no reason the world has be made in such a way that fornication is sinful. [/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Awwwwww… him doesn’t want to debate the issue with widdle old me so him is going to post funny pictures instead… him so cute.
Tell ya what champ, let’s compare post count on this thread and the evolution thread (not counting my admitted bullshitting posts) and see who has been serious about debating, shall we?[/quote]
Lets compare post CONTENT instead. You’re a blow hard that resorts to lame jokes when he runs into an argument he can’t address. Classic quantity over quality.
I would too. That’s why I made sure all the 14 year old bi-polar, Reactive attachment disorder, oppositional defiant disorder etc etc kids I worked with understood that condoms could save their lives and they’d be an idiot not to use one.
[quote]mbm693 wrote:
Oleena wrote:
mb693- It would appear that this thread has culminated into you and I essentially arguing the same point. What do you think? (anyone else, feel free to jump in)>
Would you rather a meth addict who was using throughout the entire pregnancy have the child or would you rather that they not get pregnant in the first place?
This is essentially the same question as the one I posed below. We can predict that the child will have limited capacities for life, and statistics show that they will most likely end up in jail, if they even make it past the first year of life in a hospital. We would prefer that children were born to healthy parents because we do not want to promote suffering of any sort in life.
God knew that much of his children would burn in hell FOREVER (according to the bible) and he still decided to have them. Burning in hell forever is much worse than being born to a drug addicted parent. If you knew that your child was going to burn in hell forever (and you knew this FOR SURE BEFORE YOU HAD IT) I bet that you would choose not to have it.
The view that his creation is a beautiful one is just a perspective. In reality, it is quite common for children to be raped before the age of 5, to turn into sexual offenders as a result and rape other children (this has happened to over 500 kids that I used to work with just in the small outskirt city where I lived). Babies are raped, and grow up with all sort of disorders that they don’t understand because most of the time they can’t remember that an object nearly as big as themselves was crammed into their tiny holes before their though process was complete (yes, this is possible). Many more grow up with parents that prostitute them out for drugs. 1000s upon 1000s are born to parents who used drugs and have personality disorders that cause them to commit horrible offenses to society that are a result of chemical imbalances resulting from the drug use during pregnancy. It would be a serious stretch of interpretive translation, according to everything that is written about how a person can get through the straight and narrow path and into heaven, for these individuals to get into Heaven. Many of them will tell you that they wish they were not born. Life is not a simple “right and wrong” process. These people are shades of grey.
I would prefer they not get pregnant in the first place. [/quote]
If god cannot exist before something because he exists outside of time, isn’t that something he’s incapable of and therefore wouldn’t he lack omnipotence? That’s essentially saying “He COULDN’T forsee the outcome because he is the outcome.”
