How Far Would YOU Go?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, HH…

Look guys…let me state this again…

THOSE 3 KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE WRONGED!

But just listening to some people, you would think that miscarraiges of justice started and ended with these three.

Mufasa[/quote]

Exactly. What was done to these young boys was dispicable and wrong.

But why do you, HH, only suddenly care when it’s a white rich person taking the blame.

Could we not just as easily say people usually assume the poor, black guy did it? How dare you be poor and live in a bad neighborhood where bad things happen you might be blamed for!

It’s a universal thing. In fact, it happens to black, poor people one hell of a lot more than it happens to rich white people. So stop grieving.

The whole system needs a fix.

22

JeffR:

When I say I apologize, especially on a Public Forum, its sincere. And that goes for you and everyone on this thread, because you guys a) are not Trolls, but long-standing, contributing members of a Site I Love to post on and b) gave me respect simply by saying you were surprised by my response instead of it being one you expected.

After looking back, I’m a little surprised too! But I know where it came from…and there is NO one who is worse critic of me THAN me…

To that end, I’m calling “bullshit” on myself…

My cynicism with this case was with a System of “Justice” that I’ve seen first-hand be unjust and NOT be blind…and destroy good people.

That had NOTHING to do with these 3 young men.

“High Profile” cases like this…whether right or wrong…will open up old wounds and have everyone not only reflecting on the past…but will reveal peoples true feelings.

The “relationship” between Duke and the surrounding poor, mostly Black community, has been a VERY tense one; full of unequal justice, exploitation, and “Old South” mentality. This case was, in many people’s eyes, a “See…I TOLD you so…”

And that community put their “trust” in someone looking for Political Gain.

So, after really reflecting on this, and Looking at the "Lion in the Mirror":

  1. Nifong did TWO communities an injustice; a) Duke, their Lacrosse Team and its community for blatant exploitation and false “rouge” prosecution and b) a surrounding Black community, exploited and embarrassed once again, NOT by Duke; but by someone merely wanting to get their Vote.

  2. Nifong caused unimaginable suffering to 3 young men and their families for apparent political gain. Thank goodness, Justice was done.

  3. Past injustice will NEVER justify injustice to another.

  4. ANYONE on any side of the Political/Cultural/Racial Divide…whether its Jackson, Sharpton, Limbaugh or Coulter need to STFU the next time and let TRUE Justice come through…and don’t “gloat and grandstand” when “your side” seems to have been vindicated, especially when everyone in a case was exploited.

Justice was done in this case, and my hope is that Seligmann, Finnerty and Evans will go on to live successful Lives, putting this tragedy behind them.

I’m afraid that Duke and the surrounding Black Community are as separate and divided as they were in 1935.

Mufasa

23

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
JeffR:

When I say I apologize, especially on a Public Forum, its sincere. And that goes for you and everyone on this thread, because you guys a) are not Trolls, but long-standing, contributing members of a Site I Love to post on and b) gave me respect simply by saying you were surprised by my response instead of it being one you expected.

After looking back, I’m a little surprised too! But I know where it came from…and there is NO one who is worse critic of me THAN me…

To that end, I’m calling “bullshit” on myself…

My cynicism with this case was with a System of “Justice” that I’ve seen first-hand be unjust and NOT be blind…and destroy good people.

That had NOTHING to do with these 3 young men.

“High Profile” cases like this…whether right or wrong…will open up old wounds and have everyone not only reflecting on the past…but will reveal peoples true feelings.

The “relationship” between Duke and the surrounding poor, mostly Black community, has been a VERY tense one; full of unequal justice, exploitation, and “Old South” mentality. This case was, in many people’s eyes, a “See…I TOLD you so…”

And that community put their “trust” in someone looking for Political Gain.

So, after really reflecting on this, and Looking at the "Lion in the Mirror":

  1. Nifong did TWO communities an injustice; a) Duke, their Lacrosse Team and its community for blatant exploitation and false “rouge” prosecution and b) a surrounding Black community, exploited and embarrassed once again, NOT by Duke; but by someone merely wanting to get their Vote.

  2. Nifong caused unimaginable suffering to 3 young men and their families for apparent political gain. Thank goodness, Justice was done.

  3. Past injustice will NEVER justify injustice to another.

  4. ANYONE on any side of the Political/Cultural/Racial Divide…whether its Jackson, Sharpton, Limbaugh or Coulter need to STFU the next time and let TRUE Justice come through…and don’t “gloat and grandstand” when “your side” seems to have been vindicated, especially when everyone in a case was exploited.

Justice was done in this case, and my hope is that Seligmann, Finnerty and Evans will go on to live successful Lives, putting this tragedy behind them.

I’m afraid that Duke and the surrounding Black Community are as separate and divided as they were in 1935.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Hey, Mufasa.

You have been and will always be one of my favorite posters.

I hope everyone steps back from the usual pissing contest to see what true integrity looks like.

That last post was pure gold.

JeffR

24

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, HH…

Look guys…let me state this again…

THOSE 3 KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE WRONGED!

But just listening to some people, you would think that miscarraiges of justice started and ended with these three.

Mufasa

Exactly. What was done to these young boys was dispicable and wrong.

But why do you, HH, only suddenly care when it’s a white rich person taking the blame.

Could we not just as easily say people usually assume the poor, black guy did it? How dare you be poor and live in a bad neighborhood where bad things happen you might be blamed for!

It’s a universal thing. In fact, it happens to black, poor people one hell of a lot more than it happens to rich white people. So stop grieving.

The whole system needs a fix.
[/quote]

This case is widely known on the national level.

Politicians have gotten plenty of mileage by railroading innocent black people but most white Americans don’t care. They see white politicians putting blacks from poor neighborhoods in prison and assume they must have been guilty of SOMETHING. They then go on about their lives. America is a racist society, no denying that.

The great thing about the Duke case is that it may be the spark to fix the system. I highly doubt that though, as locking up young black men makes white Americans feel safer. Racism and ignorance run deep in the world.

25

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
JeffR:

When I say I apologize, especially on a Public Forum, its sincere. And that goes for you and everyone on this thread, because you guys a) are not Trolls, but long-standing, contributing members of a Site I Love to post on and b) gave me respect simply by saying you were surprised by my response instead of it being one you expected.

After looking back, I’m a little surprised too! But I know where it came from…and there is NO one who is worse critic of me THAN me…

To that end, I’m calling “bullshit” on myself…

My cynicism with this case was with a System of “Justice” that I’ve seen first-hand be unjust and NOT be blind…and destroy good people.

That had NOTHING to do with these 3 young men.

“High Profile” cases like this…whether right or wrong…will open up old wounds and have everyone not only reflecting on the past…but will reveal peoples true feelings.

The “relationship” between Duke and the surrounding poor, mostly Black community, has been a VERY tense one; full of unequal justice, exploitation, and “Old South” mentality. This case was, in many people’s eyes, a “See…I TOLD you so…”

And that community put their “trust” in someone looking for Political Gain.

So, after really reflecting on this, and Looking at the "Lion in the Mirror":

  1. Nifong did TWO communities an injustice; a) Duke, their Lacrosse Team and its community for blatant exploitation and false “rouge” prosecution and b) a surrounding Black community, exploited and embarrassed once again, NOT by Duke; but by someone merely wanting to get their Vote.

  2. Nifong caused unimaginable suffering to 3 young men and their families for apparent political gain. Thank goodness, Justice was done.

  3. Past injustice will NEVER justify injustice to another.

  4. ANYONE on any side of the Political/Cultural/Racial Divide…whether its Jackson, Sharpton, Limbaugh or Coulter need to STFU the next time and let TRUE Justice come through…and don’t “gloat and grandstand” when “your side” seems to have been vindicated, especially when everyone in a case was exploited.

Justice was done in this case, and my hope is that Seligmann, Finnerty and Evans will go on to live successful Lives, putting this tragedy behind them.

I’m afraid that Duke and the surrounding Black Community are as separate and divided as they were in 1935.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Amazing post Mufasa. Enjoyed reading it.

(That’s why you are the King!!)

26

Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…

27

[quote]SouthernBrew wrote:
Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…[/quote]

You are allmost there!

Now convince yourself that you absolutely know that these measure WILL prevent a mushroom cloud over Manhattan and take every day that you see no such cloud as proof that you were right.

Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,

28

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, HH…

Look guys…let me state this again…

THOSE 3 KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE WRONGED!

But just listening to some people, you would think that miscarraiges of justice started and ended with these three.

Mufasa

Exactly. What was done to these young boys was dispicable and wrong.

But why do you, HH, only suddenly care when it’s a white rich person taking the blame.

Could we not just as easily say people usually assume the poor, black guy did it? How dare you be poor and live in a bad neighborhood where bad things happen you might be blamed for!

It’s a universal thing. In fact, it happens to black, poor people one hell of a lot more than it happens to rich white people. So stop grieving.

The whole system needs a fix.

This case is widely known on the national level.

Politicians have gotten plenty of mileage by railroading innocent black people but most white Americans don’t care. They see white politicians putting blacks from poor neighborhoods in prison and assume they must have been guilty of SOMETHING. They then go on about their lives. America is a racist society, no denying that.

The great thing about the Duke case is that it may be the spark to fix the system. I highly doubt that though, as locking up young black men makes white Americans feel safer. Racism and ignorance run deep in the world.

[/quote]

For once, I agree with you.

Good explanation.

29

[quote]orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…

You are allmost there!

Now convince yourself that you absolutely know that these measure WILL prevent a mushroom cloud over Manhattan and take every day that you see no such cloud as proof that you were right.

Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,
[/quote]

Obviously it is a risky “option” however if I truly believe that by sacrificing 1,000 innocents I can save 1 million…

How could I NOT take action?

30

[quote]SouthernBrew wrote:
orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…

You are allmost there!

Now convince yourself that you absolutely know that these measure WILL prevent a mushroom cloud over Manhattan and take every day that you see no such cloud as proof that you were right.

Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,

Obviously it is a risky “option” however if I truly believe that by sacrificing 1,000 innocents I can save 1 million…

How could I NOT take action?

[/quote]

If the situation is clear cut as it was in 9-11 the solution is obvious anyway:

Shoot the plane down.

However in most cases it isn`t. What you would do might help or not, you can never know, you just opened the door to a police state anyway…

31

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, HH…

Look guys…let me state this again…

THOSE 3 KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE WRONGED!

But just listening to some people, you would think that miscarraiges of justice started and ended with these three.

Mufasa

Exactly. What was done to these young boys was dispicable and wrong.

But why do you, HH, only suddenly care when it’s a white rich person taking the blame.

Could we not just as easily say people usually assume the poor, black guy did it? How dare you be poor and live in a bad neighborhood where bad things happen you might be blamed for!

It’s a universal thing. In fact, it happens to black, poor people one hell of a lot more than it happens to rich white people. So stop grieving.

The whole system needs a fix.

This case is widely known on the national level.

Politicians have gotten plenty of mileage by railroading innocent black people but most white Americans don’t care. They see white politicians putting blacks from poor neighborhoods in prison and assume they must have been guilty of SOMETHING. They then go on about their lives. America is a racist society, no denying that.

The great thing about the Duke case is that it may be the spark to fix the system. I highly doubt that though, as locking up young black men makes white Americans feel safer. Racism and ignorance run deep in the world.

For once, I agree with you.

Good explanation.[/quote]

Thanks. And it really is a national tragedy. I wish that everyone, black and white or any other color, would figure out that skin color has absolutely nothing to do with anything, unless we make it so.

How great has been our loss, as a society, when we exclude someone because of something so stupid as skin color, gender, or whatever. How many engineers, scientists, teachers, doctors, and so on, have wound up having to push a broom or lift a garbage can, when they could do so much more for themselves and others. It is truly a crying shame.

And then politicians manipulate this evil shit for power…goddamned bastards…

32

[quote]orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…

You are allmost there!

Now convince yourself that you absolutely know that these measure WILL prevent a mushroom cloud over Manhattan and take every day that you see no such cloud as proof that you were right.

Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,

Obviously it is a risky “option” however if I truly believe that by sacrificing 1,000 innocents I can save 1 million…

How could I NOT take action?

If the situation is clear cut as it was in 9-11 the solution is obvious anyway:

Shoot the plane down.

However in most cases it isn`t. What you would do might help or not, you can never know, you just opened the door to a police state anyway…

[/quote]

Most of the time it would be incredibly difficult to judge whether you are correct or not, however people in power need to make tough decisions.

33

[quote]SouthernBrew wrote:
orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
orion wrote:
SouthernBrew wrote:
Depends how much power…

I would throw 1,000 innocent people into prison for life if it meant I could be President of the U.S as I could then save hundreds of thousands of lives…

You are allmost there!

Now convince yourself that you absolutely know that these measure WILL prevent a mushroom cloud over Manhattan and take every day that you see no such cloud as proof that you were right.

Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,

Obviously it is a risky “option” however if I truly believe that by sacrificing 1,000 innocents I can save 1 million…

How could I NOT take action?

If the situation is clear cut as it was in 9-11 the solution is obvious anyway:

Shoot the plane down.

However in most cases it isn`t. What you would do might help or not, you can never know, you just opened the door to a police state anyway…

Most of the time it would be incredibly difficult to judge whether you are correct or not, however people in power need to make tough decisions.[/quote]

But you said “innocent”.

To lock innocent people away because it “might” save some lives means that the government has the power to arrest anybody/anytime, because who can argue with what “might” happen.

We might be better of accepting a few dead every now and then, like we accept them with traffic, electricity, air travel, etc.

Freedom is not free and so on…

34

[quote]orion wrote:
Btw, I have a tiger repellent stone in my garden that works wonders.

Never seen a tiger in my life,
[/quote]

I have an Elephant repellent stone.

Buy this one too, for better coverage.

35

[quote]orion wrote:
But you said “innocent”.

To lock innocent people away because it “might” save some lives means that the government has the power to arrest anybody/anytime, because who can argue with what “might” happen.

We might be better of accepting a few dead every now and then, like we accept them with traffic, electricity, air travel, etc.

Freedom is not free and so on…
[/quote]

A good example of what I mean would be Japan…we killed hundreds of thousands of innocents because we thought in the end less people would die.

If I believe that by imprisoning 1000 innocents I can save 1 million, it is a no brainer to me…