I think it is all relative. I have trainer for the last 20 years. However in the last 7 is when I really started paying my dues to the gear scene. Funny thing is that I was surrounded by it and never even paid attention to it. All my friends thought I was also “on”.
Since moving here in Japan I have had the pleasure to lift in a small hardcore gym (no showers, no lockers and 3 power racks, leg press,hack and lots of weight). My approach is super conservative (min amount needed and get most from food/correct training).
But, I have the luck of having a funny personality and many people talk with me about their problems. Have seen messed up cycles, crazy dosages, injection problems, emergencies and torn muscles in front of my face!
I like mostly to ask questions and come up with my own conclusions.
I am far from being a genious, but just like to listen.
However with the current problems here and in other web-sites, who knows what will happen. Maybe this section gets eliminated in the next upgrade…sorry just had to vent.
So I originally posted this in the duplicate thread which the mods deleted but they asked me to copy and paste it here:
Hmmm, 1,2,3,4,5,6…
I see the point you are driving at. It is true to say however that a guy with fewer cycles or perhaps even no cycles could possess a greater hold of the truth and knowledge than a multi cycle block head.
What good are you as a resource to others if you have done 10 cycles but cannot convey your thoughts and reflections in a meaningful manner. I might listen more intently to a guy who has Llewellyn’s book memorized.
Further all cycles are not created equal. We all know people who ran dbol only as a entire cycle or Deca only.
I would say as long as one has some experience they carry more weight than someone who does not. Being well read comes with the territory too.
For instance as many cycles I have been apart of I have never used Masteron or EQ to give two examples. Having said that I could probably give more pertinent advice on those two products I’ve never used than some guy who has used them. Solely because I have read so extensively.
Its a balance. In T-Nation and other forums the cream usually rises to the top. The most respected guys for advice usually have a blend of experience and articulation.
No cycle under my belt, not yet, just read alot try to get most info I can gather mostly from different boards and then try to come up with my own conclusion.
i visit all of the name brand forums, but they just dont do it for me…this is my favorite by far there are plenty of rounded opinions and heated debates here for educational purposes and the vets here dont act like F#$$ing pre-madonas this is the place to learn for me!
i do not do well at conveying meaningful info so i keep my thoughts from rolling out my keyboard as far as aas advice…most of the time lol
I have probably contributed more than most in terms of information and advice and I would have to admit I have very few actual cycles under my belt (only 2) but I have researched gear pretty extensively for the last 8 years (this board and others, steroid info sites, as well as reading a couple of steroid books…some good, some not so good). I guess you could say most of my knowledge is bro-telligence or learned from others rather than experience of my own.
I think you will find a huge range of advice out there because what works for one person might be a total disaster for another (ex deca only cycles). Someone may recommend 400mg/w deca with 50mg/d winstrol because that cycle worked great for them…for someone else it might have given them total loss of sex drive for 6 months. Someone may say you don’t need an anti-e with a gm/w of test because they didn’t and another guy may get a full on set of titties from it. The guy isn’t lying, he is just passing on his own experience.
I don’t think there is any substitute for having done something yourself and understanding how it effects YOU but it sure helps to have the knowledge base of this site to make the trial and error process shorter.
Well, as with everything, I keep my ear to the ground for stuff that makes sense, or even if it contradicts something I’ve read/heard/understood it’s at least well reasoned. As another poster has said, I’ve learned a lot from both newbies and vets…and that’s not just for AAS. I mean tips for lifting, academics, science, teaching, etc. There’s stuff you’re just not aware of, or had never thought of because you’re too close to the problem to have perspective.
Anyway, I feel pretty comfortable saying that I have a wealth of biochemical background (I’m working on writing my MS thesis as I type this). So when I put my mind to research something I feel pretty at home in the academic journals and the heavy chemistry talk. But I still say stupid things all the time…things a freshman would slap me for. basically, we’re all human and all learned and fallible at the same time.
So for me, it comes down to respecting both book learning and real world experience. I feel very comfortable taking the advice of a pHD who’s studied steroids and endocrinology extensively even though he’s never done much except jog a couple miles in his life. I also feel very comfortable taking “under the bar” experience from vets. This is especially true in AAS because there’s not much directly related research for athletes. There’s a lot of conflicting info, and solid applicable science is hard to find because academic research on AAS in humans is very unPC right now.
I haven’t done any AAS whatsoever. I generally keep my mouth shut when people are talking except to ask questions (sometimes stupid…as I said, we’re all human and sometimes don’t think). But at the same time if I were able to put some time into researching I’d feel comfortable to offer book learning advice due to my extensive biochemical background (labeled as book learning, of course, to prevent any confusion about my real world experience).
I’ve learned a lot by posters on this board and others, but I feel many of the advices given are repeated info taken from someone else. Maybe what we are doing is top notch, but maybe we are just copying one another and “tradition”. Who knows?
I feel most are on the right path judging by the results, which is the bottomline. I still like people that do weird cycles, even if I wont, just to see what happens.
For myself, I look at it as an “apprenticeship” of sorts. I use carpentry as an example because I’m a carpenter. When getting my ticket, there was the school side of it, where we sat in the classroom for a month or so, read all the texts/manuals, took tests, and so on. And then there was the practical side, the hands on, working the rest of the year with journeymen and other apprentices, where we learned/shared first-hand how things are done.
What works, what doesn’t work, and all the little tricks (and bad habits) that come from real-world experience. And my education was built up over the years of apprenticeship, through books, advice from others, and my own working experiences.
Like the use of AAS, every carpenter builds a house differently, despite having the same base of knowledge and blueprints. He just does it the way that works for him, and the results are varied. I look to the “vets” on here as the journeymen, and “noobs” as my fellow apprentices, and I read everything I can as well (I feel like I have a part-time job sometimes with all the time I spend on reading/researching about AAS, and talking/listening about it on here, lol…)
I think we can all learn from each other, if we listen with an open mind and share our opinions and information, but ultimately it’s up to how we ourselves use those skills and blueprints.
[quote]Jelly Roll wrote:
For myself, I look at it as an “apprenticeship” of sorts. I use carpentry as an example because I’m a carpenter. When getting my ticket, there was the school side of it, where we sat in the classroom for a month or so, read all the texts/manuals, took tests, and so on. And then there was the practical side, the hands on, working the rest of the year with journeymen and other apprentices, where we learned/shared first-hand how things are done.
What works, what doesn’t work, and all the little tricks (and bad habits) that come from real-world experience. And my education was built up over the years of apprenticeship, through books, advice from others, and my own working experiences.
Like the use of AAS, every carpenter builds a house differently, despite having the same base of knowledge and blueprints. He just does it the way that works for him, and the results are varied. I look to the “vets” on here as the journeymen, and “noobs” as my fellow apprentices, and I read everything I can as well (I feel like I have a part-time job sometimes with all the time I spend on reading/researching about AAS, and talking/listening about it on here, lol…)
I think we can all learn from each other, if we listen with an open mind and share our opinions and information, but ultimately it’s up to how we ourselves use those skills and blueprints.