[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
You are in a heavy union state , you are getting a free ride .I live in a right to work state . wages 30% lower than Union states
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
You are in a heavy union state , you are getting a free ride .I live in a right to work state . wages 30% lower than Union states
[/quote]
Free ride, my ass. I work for a company managed in another RTW state, not based in Maine, dumbass. Maine has nothing to do with what I do except to collect way too much tax from my earnings. I couldn’t live here if I didn’t have a job from out of state.
Yes, you are correct-- Maine is a strong union state-- and is losing companies and jobs faster than you can say “Ho-Ho”.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
I would love to have the time to chime in on this but it’s our busy time of night between calls. So got to run before
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
I would love to have the time to chime in on this but it’s our busy time of night between calls. So got to run before[/quote]
Would love to hear your perspective. You and I have ‘talked union’ before.
Incidentally, I’m not as “anti-union” as my posts appear to be or as some might make me out to be. There are certain sectors where they make sense IMO, others not so much.
There are abuses on both sides, union and executives (not that they have to be mutually opposed).
Hostess didn’t fail (only) because of the unions. Poor management/leadership, a stubborn union, and an evolving market were the perfect storm for Hostess to fail on several levels.
[quote]groo wrote:
Yah clearly the unions fault. Lets see if anyone that thinks this, one knows how many ceos hostess has had in the last 7 years. How many of these had any relevant eperience.[/quote]
You make a good point here. Before taking on the role of Chief Executive one should have experience. Otherwise, that person will get the company into a great deal of trouble. And so it goes with our country as well!
Do you think any of the Hostess CEO’s were community organizers? We know that sucks as experience for an important job.
[/quote]
Do you know of any that were a state as well as a US senator first?
There are abuses on both sides, union and executives (not that they have to be mutually opposed).
[/quote]
This pretty much gets the the heart of the issue in a nut shell.
People that see the relationship between employee and owner as some epic battle of good v evil are the problem. There are people with this mindset on both sides…
That is the kind of stoneage thought process that will continue to stunt our growth.
There are abuses on both sides, union and executives (not that they have to be mutually opposed).
[/quote]
This pretty much gets the the heart of the issue in a nut shell.
People that see the relationship between employee and owner as some epic battle of good v evil are the problem. There are people with this mindset on both sides…
That is the kind of stoneage thought process that will continue to stunt our growth. [/quote]
I’ve been part of the contract bargaining process on the management side for a number of different, big employers. Two different unnamed big employers in the same industry come to mind, one was almost always an all-out scorched earth war to get an agreement with periodic strikes, the other was usually (and literally) settled over a couple of rounds of golf and a few cocktails and a handshake on basic terms and never had a strike.
The only real difference I could tell was the general attitude of both management and the employees towards each other and the level of mutual respect because the material terms of the contracts were never that much different.
There are abuses on both sides, union and executives (not that they have to be mutually opposed).
[/quote]
This pretty much gets the the heart of the issue in a nut shell.
People that see the relationship between employee and owner as some epic battle of good v evil are the problem. There are people with this mindset on both sides…
That is the kind of stoneage thought process that will continue to stunt our growth. [/quote]
I’ve been part of the contract bargaining process on the management side for a number of different, big employers. Two different unnamed big employers in the same industry come to mind, one was almost always an all-out scorched earth war to get an agreement with periodic strikes, the other was usually (and literally) settled over a couple of rounds of golf and a few cocktails and a handshake on basic terms and never had a strike. The only real difference I could tell was the general attitude of both management and the employees towards each other and the level of mutual respect because the material terms of the contracts were never that much different.[/quote]
Mutual respect being the key.
You can’t have owners that go out and buy a new BMW, yet fire an employee and cut HI while complaining about “overhead”. At the same time employees need to understand they are expensive, very expensive, and most of the time aren’t as good as they think they are.
Both parties can be happy and “win” in the end, they just need to be open minded and a bit more creative. As baby-boomers retire more and more we’ll see a shift towards less caveman like attitudes at work.
Stop with that common sense Beans. You know there is only one side to every story. And once you start talking about mutual respect everyone is going to start to label you as a liberal. Lol.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Stop with that common sense Beans. [/quote]
Unions are their own worst enemy in a lot of ways as well. The collectivist nature, and who is often seen as those that need a union, leave unions ripe for the picking by evil men.
People coming together to gain a strong voice in the face of what they see as tyranny is good. But the collective needs leadership and a single voice. It is the leadership and voice that often buries the quality a union can provide under grains of unreasonable bullshit.
In a healthy market the only person that needs a union is the person who can’t earn what they feel they deserve in the first place. I don’t need a union because I’m good at what I do, and earn what I deserve. But I don’t mine coal or fit pipes either, and don’t pretend to speak for those that do.
Unions aren’t all bad, but they can be. Management is all bad either, but they can be as well. The breakdown is when one side can’t see the benefit they receive if the other side is getting a benefit they want as well. Like I said, you just have to get creative, and where cash flow is tight, creativity is often the only hope.
[quote]Karado wrote:
FUCKIN’ UNIONS MAN!..We needed them because of certain workplace abuses in the past,
but they are not what they were years ago…we gave them an inch and they took a foot,
more than a foot lol.[/quote]
Not to bring the Church into this, but this is what we’re dealing with in the Catholic Church. The Church has been in support of intermediate groups and still is, but some people have it in their heads that what we were dealing with at the turn of the century is what we’re dealing with today.
I have lived on different salaries ranges through my short period of working history, from above median income during college to now minimum wage. I understand if you are the sole bread winner in the family, minimum wage is tough. But, $20/hr plus benefits is nothing to sneeze at (at least for me). If my union would have told me to go on strike against my company who has almost zero profits, I’d be likely to walk across the picket line.
I’m not sure some of these people know what they have.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Some one that thinks unions are evil evidently do not work for some one else, Wages are low , Companies expect to buy your soul for squat for wages . Unions are in serious need . [/quote]
I worked for a government entity where the union decided they would start taking money out of my paycheck by force of law because my salary was ‘negotiated’ as part of ‘collective bargaining’. They wouldn’t let me renegotiate my salary as an individual (because the union lobbied for laws that outlawed that).
So I left and negotiated a salary in the private sector.
I started out at twice the salary for similar work and better benefits.
So, agreed-- the union did me a huge favor. They are in serious need-- of going away, especially in the public sector.[/quote]
You are in a heavy union state , you are getting a free ride .I live in a right to work state . wages 30% lower than Union states
[/quote]
You also live in one of the highest standard of living states, also one of the most free states in the union and you have Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
There are abuses on both sides, union and executives (not that they have to be mutually opposed).
[/quote]
This pretty much gets the the heart of the issue in a nut shell.
People that see the relationship between employee and owner as some epic battle of good v evil are the problem. There are people with this mindset on both sides…
That is the kind of stoneage thought process that will continue to stunt our growth. [/quote]
The thing is that it is not even between owner and employee it is versus employee and higher ranked employee.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
The thing is that it is not even between owner and employee it is versus employee and higher ranked employee. [/quote]
That’s the kicker with unions and why I think there is such a disconnect. Unions aren’t part of the workforce of that company so they don’t have the same vested interests that the rank and file do. I think there would be a lot less tension if the unions were actually part of the company instead of their own separate entity.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
The thing is that it is not even between owner and employee it is versus employee and higher ranked employee. [/quote]
That’s the kicker with unions and why I think there is such a disconnect. Unions aren’t part of the workforce of that company so they don’t have the same vested interests that the rank and file do. I think there would be a lot less tension if the unions were actually part of the company instead of their own separate entity.
I can only speak out of observation but it’s a lot of fear involved. Many people are just too scared to speak up. A lot of people just want to go to work, do their job, and go home. That means they don’t want to get involved with all the politics.
There’s also a limit on who is going to run for these offices. It can be a mess but it can also work really well. I keep thinking about UPS and just how much money they make and the tight schedules they keep. It comes down to leadership to me. UPS attracts high quality managers who take the time to figure out how to work with the unions. They also work really hard at setting goals and having those goals written in stone and are able to get rid of people who don’t hit those goals. Of course I worked for them in college (I was a loader) so lots may have changed since then.