irst off, thanks to everybody for the replys. A couple points:
I used to be a Christian. I now consider myself spiritual rather than religious. while I think organized religion may have some benefits for some people, I have come to believe it is inherently tribalistic and rather barbaric. I may start a separate thread on this topic.
Regarding the interracial example: Some people believe that you should wait till marriage because the bible says so.
My question is what would you have suggessted an interracial couple do back in the days when interracial marriage was illegal? They love each other, but they can’t get married because of a bullshit law. So what do they do now?
For those of you who think you should wait till marriage because of the emotional or physical risks: does waiting include waiting for things like oral sex, kissing, etc. …
With the exception of pregnancy, these “lesser” forms of intimacy carry emotional and physical consequences as well. Where do you draw the line, and why?
A final question: why would god give his children toys if she did not want them to play (responsisbly) with them and share them with as many people as possible?
It sounds like you are doing great. You’ve made some great points, and without a feeling that something is missing in your life, I’d be wasting my time trying to convince you of the value of Christ.
Reading your posts here, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and alot of integrity. That said, if you ever feel like something is missing, feel free to PM me.
SP - #4, dude, read the Bible. If you used to be a Christian there is no excuse for this question. I’m agnostic, but I can see God’s reason. If you still can’t see it, check out a book on it or a website or something.
I am a Christian and I read the bible pretty much every day and try my hardest to do what the bible says. I believe that the Bible is the written word of God. If you disagree, that is fine, I’m just giving some background on me.
Since I believe that we were created by God, and that he communicates with us today through the bible, I try (don’t always succeed) to live my life accordingly. Having said all of that, I believe that premarital sex is wrong.
I waited until I got married (23) to have sex. I don’t judge others for not waiting, I’m just giving my opinion.
As for your last post, I believe I touched on the first question in an earlier post. Here’s a bit more, though.
Once again, there is nothing in the Bible indicating that interracial marriage is wrong. However, Romans 13 states that God has placed our governments in charge of us, and we should obey them. However, this is obviously not a blanket statement - Christianity was illegal in the Roman Empire, for a time. I would say, get married, but there may be consequences. Maybe move to Canada, aye?
Point 3, to a certain degree, this level of intimacy depends on the individual’s convictions. I know a couple that chose not to even kiss prior to being married. Personally, I don’t think that it is necessary to be that extreme. However, going beyond kissing and hugging is treading on dangerous ground. One is only a zipper or button away from “real” sex.
On a side note, my wife and my convictions drew the line at kissing and hugging, but we were unable to keep it at that. We wish we could have done better, but we’ve repented and are forgiven.
As for you 4th point, God gave us toys to play with responsibly. It’s just that your definition of responsible is not aligned with His. Your question in analogous to saying “My parents gave me a car, wouldn’t they want me to have fun drag racing with it?” No, they want you to use it responsibly, as a means of transportation.
To start off, I am a Christian and a virgin, waiting for marriage.
No, sex is much more than a form of communication. You are sharing each other’s bodies in a much more intiment and emotional way than possible with a kiss or anything else.
While what you say about married couples is true in some cases, it isn’t in most. The IDEA of waiting for marriage for sex is because the IDEA of marriage is that you will be spending the rest of your life with that person.
The important thing is to married in the eyes of God, not the eyes of the law. I guarentee you, if that couple you talk about was serious about marriage, they’d find a minister somewhere and get married. Who cares if the law recognizes the marriage - what matters is that they have pleged their lives to eachother.
Sniper99, I think you realize this, but you should clarify in your post that God intends for us to share every bit of the partner in sex, not just the body. Sex is what God designed for the uniting of spirits, something much more abstract and difficult than mere uniting of bodies. Brad Scott says rampant premarital sex in America has led to the higher divorce rate due to a lack of love that results from partners not fully trusting each other and uniting throught the sex they have profaned earlier in life. In case you didn’t read the Bible yet SP, be Holy because God is Holy.
SP, I think in some way when you have sex for the first time, there is a part of you that is joined with that person. Shouldn’t that part of you go to your future wife? I did not wait and I wish that I had. My wife waited and she was able to give me something that I had no way of giving in return. A deeper part of her that she had not given to anyone else. I could also state the biblical answer or the possible consequences of sex outside of marriage, but I?m sure you already know those. Keep in mind that you may be willing to take the risks now, but when you are faced with a virginal bride or a pregnant girlfriend what you have done in the past will affect them as well. Regardless with what the world tells you, your choices affect more than you.
Would be a real shitter to marry someone and see that the plumbery doesn`t fit or work wonders. What a downer and expensive (divorce) bill for waiting.
Couple of pointers:
I hope you have had had relations (deep and/or not) with other people before committing to that line of thought. Otherwise youll have that curiosity` demon coming up eventually.
(Or just that there must be something better than this out there feeling when you hear all your satisfied buddies confess serious stuff…)
Why NOT try it? If it is good, so much the better. The wait will be worth it even more. If it is a bummer, at least you know what to expect and have a reality based reason to wonder or not about that important part of relationships.
Hey Zeb, up until about 5 years it was technically illegal for blacks and whites to marry in South Carolina. It was actually written into the state constitution and took an amendment to change it. I say technically illegal because the law was never enforced in the last 30 or more years, as the lawyers realized it was unconstituional on its’ face. As no one was charged, no one had standing to challenge the existence of the law itself. It finally went to the ballot (our way of making an amendment) and was changed. The really scary part was how many (alot) voted to preserve the prohibition.
I have been married for 4 years now and my wife and I are Christians, when we were married she had saved her virginity. Me on the other hand, did not, and have done things in my life that I wasnt proud of. But it was so refreshing to know that some other dude had not been with her. It makes me uncomfortable when girls that I have been with talk to me while my wife is around. I accepted Christ into my life about 5 years ago and have had a great marrige and I thank God everyday for a life and a wife that I can be proud of . As far as the issue is concerned it is a choice that you have to make. Obviously you have strong convictions on the subject and have your mind made up. Morally, it comes down to your own personal morals and what you feel is right. Me, I pray and ask for Gods help to lead my life in the dirrection that he would have me go. Good luck in your search.
Marriage, as a religious and spiritual institution, is not the same as marriage as an institution regulated by the state. Usually they go together, by I don’t see why an interracial couple could not have a ceremony and get recognized by God and all that as married, in the days before they could have a legally recognized marriage. So that should answer the interracial question.
I’ve known (not in the Biblical sense) a few girls who were like, “I’m saving myself for marriage, but you can stick it up my ass!” I think that’s hypocritical. . .sexual intimacy is sexual intimacy, and I doubt God (should s/he exist) thinks the penis-vagina combination is magical and special but 69’ing isn’t sex at all.
Why? O.K., well first off this is my wife and I care about her feelings. Do you really think that my wife would be fine knowing that I had been with that girl, and quite frankly the thought of another man being with the person that I love isn’t a great thought. Are you trying to convince yourself about this issue or are you being senical? If you like the thought of another guy with your girl then that is another issue in itself. I don’t feel that way only when she is around,when I see a girl that I had been with, I feel bad because I wish that I had saved myself for my wife. But maybe it’s just me,I guess I’m crazy for not enjoying the thought of another guy with her, or me wasting such a precious thing like my virginity to another girl and not saving it for my wife. But, to each his own. You seem to have it figured out, so why should it bother you what other people think, if they are wrong in your eyes why should this be such an issue? If it is wrong for someone to have and opinion of “not having sex before marrige” and their opinion bothers you, Cant you figure out why it bothers them that you want to have sex before marrige. Not everyone lives by the same set of standards ,what you may find O.K. others will not. I know that if I could start over again I would have saved myself and I am glad that she saved herself for me. I feel that no matter what others say you will still not be happy with the outcome of this post. Good luck.
OK. The opposing view doesn’t bother me at all. I just don’t agree it has as much merit as people say.
I don’t enjoy imagining my wife being with other guys at all. It did bother me on some levels at times when I was younger. Now it doesn’t at all. The difference is maturity and living with her for 21+ years. I know beyond doubt that she is my girl. I know this because she had the chance to compare, at some pretty intimate levels, with another guy or two. My primary competition was just the one guy, Jeff. So it doesn’t bother me now because as I have matured with her I can see her commitment in many ways.
Her feelings about my sexual history are similar to mine about hers, although there never was any serious competition. I was just enjoying being an adult male and having some damn fine, and some average, recreational sex. I did have one semi serious GF and my wife and I are friends with her and her husband to this day. We’ve gone on multiple day hikes with them, gone hunting with them, and spent a lot of time with them including a few Thanksgiving dinners. We raised and killed the turkey and they cooked it.
None of us were raised to expect a virgin bride or groom. The guilt factor just isn’t there. If it was I suppose we’d have all made different choices than we did. I don’t know about the other couple but my wife and I feel lucky to have each other no matter how it came to be that we met or if there were a couple of people along the path.
You obviously have found some sort of peace with yourself and your “failure” to live up to your ideals. I’m glad to see that, just as I’m glad I didn’t have that dragon to slay.
