[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
What is the main reason that you do not believe in Christ, Again, I am looking for ?point blank? reasons for not believing. Bullet statements would work best.
Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]
Dinosaurs
[quote]Damici wrote:
SG,
Now that you’ve gotten several responses, why do you ask? Where are you coming from?[/quote]
Bump for Solomon’s thoughts on this . . .
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Don’t you mean ‘Heil Lucifer’?
Or is it ‘Heil Schickelgruber’?
HH
[/quote]
Isn?t it interesting that Lucifer translates as the light-bringer?
In a way Lucifer is a Prometeus and like Prometeus he is punished by the God(s).
Howvever, the light and warmth (and everything it stands for, metaphorically) that was welcomed by the Greeks, is conceived to be the original Sin, the fall from grace, by Hebrew tribes.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
orion wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
orion wrote:
A) Much to many Gods and Holy Books.
That is not even all of them, knock yourself out.
B) Kants “Critique of pure reason”
Once you start to speculate without the need for empirical proof, everything and its opposite can be “proven”.
He was famous, tough deeply religious, for destroying every “proof” for God?s existence he could lay his hands on.
Dude, you need to think a little deeper than that. Please look up empirical. In the scientific realm you are basically saying that you need empirical proof, yet “empirical” means coming from observation, not controlled scientific studies.
Empirical = observation of things, items, people, etc in their own natural environment to support or develop scientific hypotheses
Controlled research = an observation of a controlled environment to support or develop scientific hypotheses
So the fact would be that God can be proven empirically, meaning based on observation of how peoples lives are changed as a result. But, God cannot be proven in controlled scientific research.
All that would “prove” is, that the belief in a higher being can change peoples lifes, for better or worse.
That does not verify the existence of said higher being.
And yet the belief in other things does not change peoples lives for the better. So why does belief in God change peoples lives for the better and a belief in Elvis still being alive not?
Belief is not the magic, it’s what it is directed at is where the proof lives.
You should also know that there is no controlled research that proves the theory of evolution either, it is all empirical. So both evolution and God can be supported by empirical evidence, not controlled research.
So has your faith in evolution changed your life for the better?
[/quote]
Yes it has, but that does not make it true and you do not understand fully what falsifiable means.
You are using poor examples.
If I start to believe to have terminal cancer (having no way to find out if it is true) that will kill me soon, I might react to it by going out of my way to help other people or I might go on a killing spree.
Both reactions were shown by people coming under the influence of religion.
That is exactly what is so problematic about religion IMO, it can change peoples behaviour dramatically, though there is no empirical way to test the underlying assumptions.
[quote]Damici wrote:
Damici wrote:
SG,
Now that you’ve gotten several responses, why do you ask? Where are you coming from?
Bump for Solomon’s thoughts on this . . .[/quote]
My response will be long. I am at work right now and I want to give this a very thoughtful response.
For those of you that responded thoughtfully and politely, thank you.
Me Solomon Grundy
futuredave,
[quote]futuredave wrote:
Great thread.[/quote]
I second that. Thanks, Solomon Grundy, you’ve started a proper debate here, not the usual pissing contest.
Thanks, futuredave, my “journey” looks a bit more dramatic in writing than I had thought - I guess that comes from the condensed format.
Shouldn’t any religion or worldview follow these principles? If you start playing it “safe” and just follow the majority, you give away your own power of decision-making; and I guess this is what many religion-sceptics here have a problem with: blind obedience to a dogma without checking if the values supported are (still) acceptable.
Makkun
[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
Damici wrote:
Damici wrote:
SG,
Now that you’ve gotten several responses, why do you ask? Where are you coming from?
Bump for Solomon’s thoughts on this . . .
My response will be long. I am at work right now and I want to give this a very thoughtful response.
For those of you that responded thoughtfully and politely, thank you.
Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]
??
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As an atheist/agnostic, I’d like to chime in.
To an educated mind, bowing to your god would be totally out of question.
What do I mean with educated?
Certainly not a degree or a grand paycheck.
Only a certain level of general education and the ability to put facts in perspective using reason, logic and some experience with people is required.
What do I mean with bowing?
To subdue myself morally to this whole farce.
You see, there is no real sacrifice involved, which is a fascinating conclusion- Why do so many christians insist to repent (like here on T-Nation), when practically nothing would change?
Do most christians truly sacrifice anything in their lives to their religion? Nope.
It’s just an aggressive form of a ritualistic cultural takeover.
Most humans feel best if their habitat is culturally homogeneous. Else they feel confused, unsure and nervous.
And I won’t convert so others can feel better. And don’t tell me you pray for my soul cause you don’t want me to rot in hell.
What do I mean with your god?
The angry SOB from that dusty old tome people call the bible.
If he is really THE Gawd, we’re all royally fucked - and that includes all devout christians.
(don’t think I really consider this as a possibility. It’s not that I have a problem with HIS awesome style and don’t understand the old texts properly - it’s a hypothetical statement)
Why is it out of the question?
Here is where the discussion begins- and at the same time, it doesn’t.
If yout try to defend yourself/convince me using the bible, we cannot have a real conversation.
If you sincerely let off the holy book arguments and use only reason, logic and your education we can have a newborn atheist in less than ten minutes.
A short list of knockout arguments:
Religions exist all over the world. Most of them share some elements (especially if they’re from the same region like judaism, christianity and islam) , some of them are totally different.
There is no explanation for this other than your religion is somewhat flawed.
Don’t come with arguments like: It’s just that other countries have a different approach.
Wrong. Religion is one the major backbones of culture. If god did his homework, the chinese would have a similar culture. Clearly confusing.
Why didn’t he come earlier?
Poor greeks. Had some of the smartest nerds in history. They’re all gonna burn cause Jesus was late. I’m certain it’s according to the mysterious & divine plan we won’t understand.
If religion wouldn’t exist, you’d have to invent it.
If someone doesn’t understand the historical impact of religion, he is probably not very bright or not very educated, thus being a potential christian.
If you do understand it however, you’d know that religion was always an essential tool to maintain a civilization.
In nearly every twist and rule in the strange big book you regard as holy you can clearly see that it was written by people, not a gawd.
So- there is not really a main thing that holds me back, like: I dunno , but I think he won’t love me since I’m a jerk!
It’s more the other way round. There is no argument for me to even consider changing my attitude.
The sad thing is, once people have changed, they often live a lifelong lie.
Practically no christian will have the courage to openly admit: I was an idiot for believing this crap! Oh how I lied to myself only to have the comfort of not feeling so alone and enjoy the luxury of others telling me what’s right and what’s wrong.
Darn, it’s late!
Until later…
[/quote]
I am glad that you chose ?to chime in?. I can understand an Agnostic point of view but not an atheist. Being open to the possibility of a supreme being is a completely different position than there is not god at all. From your post I get a mixture of both. To respond to your questions it would help to know where you fall.
I do not mind that you disagree with the Christian faith. I do take issue with the assumptions that you use to argue your point. I would be interested to know what data you used to come to your conclusions. Your demeanor is probably more telling than your conclusions.
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…for me it’s not about which faith or religion, it’s about believing itself that does not rock my boat. Believing something to be true is in fact telling yourself a lie of which you need to convince yourself over and over again that it is true. I have no interest in doing that…
Can you explain this statement to me?
Believing something to be true is in fact telling yourself a lie of which you need to convince yourself over and over again that it is true.
I’m not sure I follow.
Me Solomon Grundy
…what is it you don’t understand? Believing is accepting something as true in the absence of certainty. That has always struck me as dishonest. Why would i want to believe without ever knowing it is actually the truth?
…this is why i don’t follow religion, or entertain religious beliefs…
[/quote]
I don?t agree with your definition of belief, but I understand. I knew that you did not mean what I was thinking. Do you believe in absolute truth? Do you consider yourself an Atheist or Agnostic?
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]Damici wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
Damici wrote:
Damici wrote:
SG,
Now that you’ve gotten several responses, why do you ask? Where are you coming from?
Bump for Solomon’s thoughts on this . . .
My response will be long. I am at work right now and I want to give this a very thoughtful response.
For those of you that responded thoughtfully and politely, thank you.
Me Solomon Grundy
??[/quote]
I have been a Christian for a long time. There have been many times that I have been ashamed of being associated with Christians. I see the examples of what the world sees as Christianity and it bothers me. My attempt here is to get a better understanding of how we approach our world so differently. I want to understand the terminology and context of the words that are used to express the ideas that shape our choices. I would assert that the subtle differences in definition would help over all understanding. Christians throw out words like redemption and sanctification. I?m not sure that they know what they even mean. I?m fairly sure that most people that they are trying to convert don?t know either. In our culture we have changed the way that we define truth, acceptance, tolerance and other words that are used in debating core beliefs. A debate will not last long if you are speaking Chinese and I am speaking English. Even if they were similar it wouldn?t be as good as the same.
More to come
Me Solomon Grundy
Solomon et al…
I think “Faith” and “Belief” are two very different things, yet they are often used interchangeably by Christians. I honestly believe Paul bastardized what Jesus was talking about and that “Christianity” has suffered greatly for it.
Belief… is a collection of ideas that one accepts with one’s mind. “I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins.” “I believe there are aliens on Neptune.”
You can “believe” anything you want. But unless it affects your life/behavior, it doesn’t really matter what you believe.
Faith… on the other hand is belief which has sprouted. It involves action. Regarding Christianity, I’m not talking about going to church or witnessing to others about you “beliefs.”
According to Jesus, it involves acting in ways that are often radically counter to one’s own self interest. “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.” (Matthew 5:38-41)
This is NOT Ayn Rand’s objectivism. It’s completely different. It requires a tremendous amount of faith, because, frankly, it can get you killed. People will take advantage of you. They will slap your other cheek. They’ll take your shirt and coat and pants as well. They’ll nail you to a cross.
But Jesus did it. As did Martin Luther King, Jr. As did Ghandi. And Marla Ruzicka who was killed last year in Iraq, trying to help the Iraqi civilians who’d been caught up in the war.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/18/RUZICKA.TMP
Was she a Christian? I don’t know. Did she believe Christ died on the cross for her sins? It’s irrelevant. She lived and died as “Christianly” (if I may coin a phrase) as anyone can…
That is faith. Moving beyond one’s own’s self and one’s fear to act in a larger way for others, even if it means dying.
There were also Christians who went to Iraq… some were even held hostage. But a huge majority were busy justifying the war and George Bush’s actions, while worrying about gay marriage and other issues that required no sacrifice whatsoever on their part. Yet allowed them to feel sanctimonious and like they were doing God’s work.
I contend that even if Marla Ruzicka were an avowed athiest, she’s a model Christian. That’s what Christianity is… it’s action. Not a collection of beliefs which simply allow one to feel morally superior to the “unsaved.”
Belief is meaningless. Counter to everything Paul wrote, it is one’s actions or works that count in this life. “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble,” wrote James. And “faith without works is dead.”
[quote]silencer wrote:
i.e
Any translation of the Qur’an immediately ceases to be the literal word of God, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur’an in its original Arabic form. In fact, each translation on is actually an interpretation which has been translated. "[/quote]
This makes me believe Islam was manufactured by man and not God.
God would not care what language was used. Why in the world would God use Arabic as his primary language?
It does not make any sense.
Other religions have similar markers that make me believe they were created by clever men.
I do not think any religions are based in reality although it is possible a higher power exists.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
silencer wrote:
i.e
Any translation of the Qur’an immediately ceases to be the literal word of God, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur’an in its original Arabic form. In fact, each translation on is actually an interpretation which has been translated. "
This makes me believe Islam was manufactured by man and not God.
God would not care what language was used. Why in the world would God use Arabic as his primary language?
It does not make any sense.
Other religions have similar markers that make me believe they were created by clever men.
I do not think any religions are based in reality although it is possible a higher power exists.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure this is the way Jews feel about the Torah, also. That Hebrew is the living language of God and the Torah in Hebrew has life and meaning and breadth that it just does not have in translations.
[quote]silencer wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:
What is the main reason that you do not believe in Christ, God, the Bible or all of the above? This is an honest question. It would seem that very few people are converted later in life. I have been a Christian for a long time, and I am interested to find out the thought process for a Non-Christian. I have a few ideas for why people don?t believe, but I would prefer to hear it before I state something that would righteous.
Does this question apply to non-Christians who believe in God, Christ, and the Bible?
"(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Isa (Jesus), son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God).
She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). God createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Injeel (Gospel),
And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by God’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by God’s leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to God and obey me.
Lo! God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.
But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of God? The disciples said: We will be helpers (in the way) of God. We believe in God, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him).
Our Lord! We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him whom Thou hast sent. Count us among those who bear witness (to the truth).
And [the unbelievers] planned and God (also) planned, and God is the best of planners.
(And remember) when God said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
(Qur’an 3:45-55)[/quote]
Who does the Qur?an say that Jesus is? I have done some research into the Qur?an and Mohammad, but I don?t remember. Were you raised Muslum?
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]futuredave wrote:
Solomon et al…
I think “Faith” and “Belief” are two very different things, yet they are often used interchangeably by Christians. I honestly believe Paul bastardized what Jesus was talking about and that “Christianity” has suffered greatly for it.
Belief… is a collection of ideas that one accepts with one’s mind. “I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins.” “I believe there are aliens on Neptune.”
You can “believe” anything you want. But unless it affects your life/behavior, it doesn’t really matter what you believe.
Faith… on the other hand is belief which has sprouted. It involves action. Regarding Christianity, I’m not talking about going to church or witnessing to others about you “beliefs.”
According to Jesus, it involves acting in ways that are often radically counter to one’s own self interest. “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.” (Matthew 5:38-41)
This is NOT Ayn Rand’s objectivism. It’s completely different. It requires a tremendous amount of faith, because, frankly, it can get you killed. People will take advantage of you. They will slap your other cheek. They’ll take your shirt and coat and pants as well. They’ll nail you to a cross.
But Jesus did it. As did Martin Luther King, Jr. As did Ghandi. And Marla Ruzicka who was killed last year in Iraq, trying to help the Iraqi civilians who’d been caught up in the war.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/18/RUZICKA.TMP
Was she a Christian? I don’t know. Did she believe Christ died on the cross for her sins? It’s irrelevant. She lived and died as “Christianly” (if I may coin a phrase) as anyone can…
That is faith. Moving beyond one’s own’s self and one’s fear to act in a larger way for others, even if it means dying.
There were also Christians who went to Iraq… some were even held hostage. But a huge majority were busy justifying the war and George Bush’s actions, while worrying about gay marriage and other issues that required no sacrifice whatsoever on their part. Yet allowed them to feel sanctimonious and like they were doing God’s work.
I contend that even if Marla Ruzicka were an avowed athiest, she’s a model Christian. That’s what Christianity is… it’s action. Not a collection of beliefs which simply allow one to feel morally superior to the “unsaved.”
Belief is meaningless. Counter to everything Paul wrote, it is one’s actions or works that count in this life. “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble,” wrote James. And “faith without works is dead.”
[/quote]
The difference between faith and belief is an example of what I mean. I agree with you that they are not the same, because of that; I don?t think that you can use them interchangeably and be accurate. When you speak of faith concerning religion, you cannot fully describe or define it without using spiritual terms. This goes back to wanting to find out where people are coming from.
When you mentioned Marla Ruzicka, you said that it was irrelevant if she was a Christian by faith. If you are speaking as an Atheist, then it would seem irrelevant. By changing your perspective that question become very relevant. I think that we define Christian differently. Her example was very Christ like. I have no way of knowing what her faith was in. Biblical Christianity is more than giving, loving and sacrificing. You quoted James. Here is the New American Standard version:
James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Paul taught the same thing. This is where it gets tricky. Faith in Christ (defined as acceptance, trust and submission too) is what is necessary to spend eternity in heaven. Just like the body without the spirit can be physically alive and yet dead to spiritual things, faith giving you salvation can exist without being worth anything spiritually. If I have faith in Christ and it does not change me I may spend eternity in Heaven, but I will not fulfill God?s will and? The Great Commission?. This is where I think most Christians fail. They may take this to mean that they have a get out of Hell free card and can act any way they want. Non-Christians may look at that and see a bad example. Some Christians may also keep to themselves. This gives no example. Christianity is more than ?action?. We are meant to follow Christ?s example. We don?t; and I include myself in that. Other Faiths have clothing or rituals that distinguish them from others. In a way I applaud them for the self discipline and sacrifice that those outward examples show. We are supposed to be known by our love. That I believe (forgive me) is the reason that Christianity grew so fast in the beginning. I?m not saying that the outward appearance is that important. I?m saying that our love should be as visible as any of these other things. People should be able to see something different. Instead they see someone that is holier-than-thou, self absorbed and hypocritical. This is not what I meant by different. Christ showed compassion even when he was passing on the hard truth. He also helped people in this world while preparing them for the next. We should help others all we can, but if we don?t share our faith then what have we done for them.
I will get off my soapbox for now.
Me Solomon Grundy
This is not my thread, but I would like to interject and address something I have been hearing on this thread and the other threads. A big problem non-Christians have with Christians is hypocrisy.
First of all I wish I could tell you how much this breaks my heart. I used to be one of these hypocrites. For years I professed Jesus, and hid behind the idea that all my sins were forgiven, so it did not matter what I did. I was indistinguishable from non-Christians, and in a lot of cases, I was worse than them. Yet I would have been very offended if someone would have questioned my salvation because of my actions. I would have called them “legalistic”.
I was a false convert. I responded to a false gospel, one that said “life is all about God’s love for you. He wants to be your friend. Accept Jesus and He will give you peace, happiness and forgive all your sins. He will fill that God shaped hole in your heart.”
That is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet this man-centered gospel is being preached all over North America. People have watered down the truth to appeal to the masses, fill pews, and tally up “decisions for Christ”. The result has been huge numbers of false converts. These are the hypocrites and the Sunday Christians you are talking about. They exist in every church and they are even more lost than the rest of the unsaved world because they have false assurance of their salvation.
The true Gospel is this: You are a sinner. You, along with everyone else, deserve to go to Hell. There is nothing you can do to work your way to Heaven, because you have already sinned and fall short. Because God is so kind and merciful, He sent His only son Jesus to die on a cross in order to take the penalty for your sins. Jesus then rose from the grave and defeated death and sin. In order to access this forgiveness, you must forsake your sin and trust in Jesus alone to save you. Jesus said you must be born again in order to be saved. You cannot be born again unless you first die. This is where many false converts go wrong. They are not willing to fully humble themselves before God and die to themselves. Rather, they accept Jesus as a savior and a helper, but not as their Lord and master. They are willing to commit - meaning they are still in control, but not surrender - meaning God is in complete control.
When a person truly repents and trusts in the Lord, the Bible says that he will become a new creature in Christ and receive a new heart with new desires. A Christian will still fall into sin, but he will not dive into it, and he will immediately repent and be willing to change. Five months ago, I was born again, and it was unbelievable how much my heart and desires changed. For me, it may have been more dramatic than most because I was a worse sinner than most, but nonetheless, it was incredible.
I hope this may explain some of the hypocrisy that you see.
[quote]JPBear wrote:
This is not my thread, but I would like to interject and address something I have been hearing on this thread and the other threads. A big problem non-Christians have with Christians is hypocrisy.
First of all I wish I could tell you how much this breaks my heart. I used to be one of these hypocrites. For years I professed Jesus, and hid behind the idea that all my sins were forgiven, so it did not matter what I did. I was indistinguishable from non-Christians, and in a lot of cases, I was worse than them. Yet I would have been very offended if someone would have questioned my salvation because of my actions. I would have called them “legalistic”.
I was a false convert. I responded to a false gospel, one that said “life is all about God’s love for you. He wants to be your friend. Accept Jesus and He will give you peace, happiness and forgive all your sins. He will fill that God shaped hole in your heart.”
That is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet this man-centered gospel is being preached all over North America. People have watered down the truth to appeal to the masses, fill pews, and tally up “decisions for Christ”. The result has been huge numbers of false converts. These are the hypocrites and the Sunday Christians you are talking about. They exist in every church and they are even more lost than the rest of the unsaved world because they have false assurance of their salvation.
The true Gospel is this: You are a sinner. You, along with everyone else, deserve to go to Hell. There is nothing you can do to work your way to Heaven, because you have already sinned and fall short. Because God is so kind and merciful, He sent His only son Jesus to die on a cross in order to take the penalty for your sins. Jesus then rose from the grave and defeated death and sin. In order to access this forgiveness, you must forsake your sin and trust in Jesus alone to save you. Jesus said you must be born again in order to be saved. You cannot be born again unless you first die. This is where many false converts go wrong. They are not willing to fully humble themselves before God and die to themselves. Rather, they accept Jesus as a savior and a helper, but not as their Lord and master. They are willing to commit - meaning they are still in control, but not surrender - meaning God is in complete control.
When a person truly repents and trusts in the Lord, the Bible says that he will become a new creature in Christ and receive a new heart with new desires. A Christian will still fall into sin, but he will not dive into it, and he will immediately repent and be willing to change. Five months ago, I was born again, and it was unbelievable how much my heart and desires changed. For me, it may have been more dramatic than most because I was a worse sinner than most, but nonetheless, it was incredible.
I hope this may explain some of the hypocrisy that you see.
[/quote]
I have followed your newfound faith since you started to post about it. I will say this if it is keeping you from a dysfunctional relationship with booze that in and of itself is a good thing, but I did want to point out some discrepancies I see with your line of thinking.
You have self professed that you were among the worst of the worst when it came to sin up until about five or six months ago. At that time the spirit filled you and took away the craving for booze.
Now with this five or so months passing you have become an expert on the word of god and what it take to receive his grace. You went from a terrible sinner to after five months being able to tell other humans that they are going to hell unless they follow your guidelines for entering heaven.
That just seems pretty radical to me and not to different then a disaffected arabian twenty something kid having a life changing experience after hearing a mullah speak and wanting to jihad.
I suppose you are going to a church, what if your pastor or priest told you tomorrow we are in a life and death struggle and the rapture is upon us. You must do your duty as a soldier of god and kill or be willing to be killed for his glory.
Would you follow your leaders bidding as he has instructed you for the past five months and you believe the words of the last five months with all your heart.
Or would you say whoa there betsy let’s look at this from a few different angles here before I commit myself.
Belief systems are very powerful especially if they have helped you overcome a self destructive habit.
You have heard of the fervor of the newly converted and that goes for any religion.
Veterans of any organization usually have a much more calm and mild message. I am not religious, but there are some pastors and such that I have heard and I believe they give a very positive life affirming message.
Right now I think you are kinda high on your conversion and with that you have I am the expert on the road to the lord fever. Hopefully after time has passed this will wear off and your religion will give you more of a quiet confidence and only a hope of goodwill to others instead of the need to tell them they are so faulted and despicable and need to follow your way to attain glory.
Peace
D
I don’t get why this doesn’t make sense to you. Wouldn’t it be better to say “Only pay attention to my original words”, than to say “Just translate it 1000 times, and follow whatever it says at the end”?
Dedicated
Where do you stand?
Me Solomon Grundy
[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
Dedicated
Where do you stand?
Me Solomon Grundy[/quote]
Agnostic… I don’t believe in the bible one iota, but I do believe, in the slim in my estimation, probability of a higher power.
D