Homosexuality in Prison

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Most of the government census statistics were all about married gay couples (or the lack thereof).[/quote]

I don’t know what math book you’re reading from, since MOST means MAJORITY. You provide 6 references, of which:

5 specifically do NOT address gay marriage (steady partnerships, etc. do not constitute legally binding marriage)

1 does mention gay marriage. According to Netherlands official statistics, roughly 5% of all marriages are gay marriages which drumroll coincides with the percentage of gays in the population. Nice way to make my point for me.

The comprehensive UCLA study proves otherwise. They looked at the percentage of legally bound gay couples in EVERY SINGLE STATE, and found that 40% are already in legal unions, and an expected 90% will be in legal unions in the next 20 years.

Go back and read your own statistics, which showed that 3-6% of all marriages in the Netherlands are between gay couples, which is remarkably aligned with the percentage of people that are gay.

Every single state? Have you even bothered to read the study? When you get around to doing so, you will realize that IT INCLUDES THE TOTAL PERCENTAGE OF LEGALLY BOUND GAY COUPLES IN EVERY SINGLE U.S. STATE. Get it yet?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
There you go again talking about something that you know nothing about, none of us have any good data on the subject. [/quote]

It only takes a SINGLE example of a heterosexual man having sex with another man to prove you wrong. You have painted yourself into a corner with your ridiculous assertion that it is physically impossible for hetero men to become aroused with other men.

I personally know men who consider themselves 100% heterosexual, yet experimented with homosexual activity when they were teens.

We have other guys on this very forum who are similarly 100% heterosexual, yet have said they COULD have sex with other men if they chose to do so.

I’ve provided references on the incidence of male-on-male sex among the majority of aristocratic Greeks.

Again, it only takes ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a heterosexual man getting aroused with another man to prove you wrong. Is it possible for you to even admit that you are mistaken, or are you going to continue burying your head in the sand?

How about being honest and straightforward for once, and having a little humility? I’ve made mistakes in the past which I’ve admitted to on this forum, can you do the same?

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
There you go again talking about something that you know nothing about, none of us have any good data on the subject.

It only takes a SINGLE example of a heterosexual man having sex with another man to prove you wrong. You have painted yourself into a corner with your ridiculous assertion that it is physically impossible for hetero men to become aroused with other men.[/quote]

Can a man who claims to be heteorsexual have sex with another man? Yes, I’ve already said that umpteen times. As I said it’s far less than a fraction of 1%. And men who do this regularly are called bisexual.

I sometimes wonder what crazy point you are trying to make by making stuff up. But then I realize that you are forlife and this it the Internet and it all makes sense.

Now answer this one to my satisfaction: How can someone who claims to be a homosexual man have sex with a woman on a regular basis which about 87% of them do?

Explain that one forlife.

Also nice dodge on the prison issue. (Looks up at the title of the thread) It seems that you really had no idea how many so called “straight men” are having sex with other men in prison do you?

But I see that didn’t stop your wild speculation. This should demonstrate to anyone following the thread that you continually grasp at air get a hand full of it and then try to pass it off as substance.

Pathetic!

Maybe it’s time for you to be honest and stop blindly pressing the gay agenda. You’re only making you and your cause look bad.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Can a man who claims to be heteorsexual have sex with another man? Yes, I’ve already said that umpteen times. As I said it’s far less than a fraction of 1%. And men who do this regularly are called bisexual.[/quote]

Straw man. I didn’t say a man who CLAIMS to be heterosexual but in fact is bisexual. I specifically referred to men who are 100% heterosexual.

Or are you still going to insist that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a truly heterosexual man to become aroused with another man?

Want to try again?

Keep in mind, it only takes a SINGLE example to prove you wrong.

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Most of the government census statistics were all about married gay couples (or the lack thereof).

I don’t know what math book you’re reading from, since MOST means MAJORITY. You provide 6 references,[/quote]

Hmm…I see your math is no better than your logic.

Let’s see 5 of the 6 are in countries where homosexual marriage is allowed and one where civil unions are allowed.

As you can guess the statistics are clear, homosexuals do NOT want to be married.

SPAIN:

“On 27 June 2007, the Ministry of Justice announced 3,340 same-sex marriages had taken place in the last two years.
2.375 of the marriages were between men and 965 were between women.”

Sweden and Norway:

“Statistics for Sweden show only 0.55% of married couples are same-sex and in Norway 0.68%.”

UK:

“In the UK, the latest census shows 10.3 million married couples, 2 million heterosexual de facto couples and 39,261 same-sex couples. This gives 0.318% of all couples are homosexual couples. [The Times, 4 Feb 2004]”

Netherlands:

"Official (government) statistics from The Netherlands government show that few homosexuals actually get married. â??Another important change in formal union behaviour in The Netherlands is the fact that homosexuals may not get married. This has been legal since 2001. â?¦ The number of homosexual marriage is still small; in 2002 just under 1,000 marriages between two men and fewer still between two women were registered.â??

Scandinavia

In 'homosexual-friendlyâ?? Scandinavian countries, where same-sex â??civil unionâ?? type relationships have existed for 10 years, male-male union breakdown (â??divorceâ??) is 50% higher than heterosexual unions. For female-female coupling the breakdown figure is 170% higher.

As far as this country goes i California you stated that 18,000 couples filed for marriage certificates (we can call them married if you like) This means that that a tiny fraction of Californias gay population wants marriage. Where are all those committed couples just knocking down the “marriage door”? It’s a myth.

Other states where gay marriage or civil unions are recognized the statistics are just as dismal.

Now what forlife? What sort of satisfaction do you derive from being proved wrong time after time?

(shaking head)

[quote]forlife wrote:

Keep in mind, it only takes a SINGLE example to prove you wrong.
[/quote]

Really? Well then as long as we’re playing by those rules it only takes a single example for YOU to be wrong relative to homosexual men being able to change.

Would you like me to post the many web sites where there is documented evidence that homosexual men have changed to heterosexual?

And what about those 87% of homosexual men who have regular sex with women?

You can only defend this over-sexed group so long.

You’re right, Zeb. I admit that I (and every major medical and mental health organization in the world) were just in denial all along. I don’t really want to be married because you say I don’t. You know a lot more about being gay than I will ever know.

God bless you :slight_smile:

The Transexual Plot:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/conservatives_warn_quick_sex

[quote]forlife wrote:
I don’t really want to be married because you say I don’t. You know a lot more about being gay than I will ever know.

God bless you :)[/quote]

Put the sarcasm away forlife.

You may very well want to marry your boyfriend. I’m simply pointing out that only a tiny percentage of homosexuals feel as you do and that is one more reason not to change a 5000 year old institution.

…on average, 1200 samesex couples married in the Netherlands in the last couple of years. On a whole, fewer people get married alltogether; we like to live together without getting hitched. Nobody really cares for a 5000 year old institution over here…

[quote]ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
I don’t really want to be married because you say I don’t. You know a lot more about being gay than I will ever know.

God bless you :slight_smile:

Put the sarcasm away forlife.

You may very well want to marry your boyfriend. I’m simply pointing out that only a tiny percentage of homosexuals feel as you do and that is one more reason not to change a 5000 year old institution.

[/quote]

That is ok.

Just to be consistent we should also abolish the perversion of monogamy, re-introduce arranged child marriages and maybe polyandry as well.

Otherwise it would seem that you do not care so much about tradition but about other people living according to your rules.

Happy anniversary on your 8,000th post :slight_smile:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Happy anniversary on your 8,000th post :)[/quote]

OMG!!

I missed it!

[quote]ZEB wrote:

There you go again talking about something that you know nothing about, none of us have any good data on the subject. I asked early in the thread if anyone had any statistics regarding homosexual activity in prison. As I recall no one responded to my request.
[/quote]

Oh, wait, was there a request for statistics? CAN DO. This is regarding prison rape. I’m not willing to spend half the night fucking with the formatting, so I’m sure it’ll be hard to read. Nonetheless, here you go:

[quote]Studies Reporting Low Prevalence of Prison Sexual Victimization
Davis (1968) administered one of the first studies on male prison sexual victim-
ization. He conducted a 26-month study of sexual assault in the Philadelphia prison
system, and it included interviews of 3,304 inmates and 561 custodial staff, as well
as additional interviews and reviews of official records. The results indicated that 97
inmates had been sexually assaulted (roughly 3%). Despite this rather low estimate,
Davis noted that he assessed only 5% of the total inmate population, that many
inmates did not participate in the study for fear of retaliation, and that the prison
system itself did little to protect inmates following a complaint. Thus, although his
findings indicated a low prevalence of prison sexual violence, he believed that the
numbers reported were only the “tip of the iceberg” (p. 11).
Moss and Hosford (1979) reported findings similar to those of Davis (1968).
Their analysis focused on a single federal prison over a 12-month period, and they
used official records as their indicator of sexual victimization - in particular,whether
an inmate was identified and segregated as a perpetrator of rape. Using this method,
only 12 out of 1,100 inmates fell into that category, indicating a prevalence rate of
only 1%. Such a finding may not be surprising,however,given that official records of
sexual assault in the general population - where the stigma of sexual victimization,
though present, may not be as acute as it is in prison - tend to be biased downward
(Fisher & Cullen, 2000).
Studies employing interview data techniques have reported relatively low prevalence
rates of sexual victimization as well. In particular, Saum et al’s study (1995) of 101
male inmates from a medium-security facility in Delaware found that only 1 inmate
reported being the victim of a completed rape (0.9%). Furthermore,Hensley,Tewksbury,
et al’s interviews (2003) from 174 male inmates from three Oklahoma correctional
facilities revealed that only 2 inmates reported being sexually victimized (1.1%). [/quote]

But wait, say the article’s authors, there are other studies with different results:

[quote]Studies Reporting High Prevalence of Prison Sexual Victimization
Not all studies uncover such low prevalence rates of prison sexual victimization
(see,e.g.,Wooden & Parker,1982). Two studies took a much different approach than
that of previous work in this area; consequently,their findings are quite different as well.
First, Struckman-Johnson et al. (1996) argued that official records and face-to-face
interviews are both likely to be plagued with the problem of underreporting sexual
victimization. Furthermore, they argued that restricting the definition of sexual
violence to a completed rape may fail to fully uncover the range of sexually coercive
behaviors that inmates face on a day-to-day basis. After anonymously surveying a
sample of male inmates from a Midwestern state prison, the researchers found that
of the 101 inmates who had reported having been targets for sexual victimization,
52% were pressured or forced to engage in sex acts against their will - a rate much
higher than had been previously revealed in the prison sexual violence literature.
Second, in a replication of their 1996 study, Struckman-Johnson and Struckman-
Johnson (2000) examined sexual coercion rates in seven Midwestern prisons. From
surveys of 1,788 male inmates and 475 staff,they discovered that 21% of the inmates
had experienced at least one episode of forced or pressured sexual contact during
their incarceration experience. [/quote]

Blah blah blah, and then:

[quote]Accordingly, our argument here is
that a good study in this area is one that uses an inclusive definition of sexual vio-
lence (i.e., one that does not rely on an inmate’s directly reporting having been the
victim of a completed rape),one that employs an anonymous data collection approach
where inmates do not necessarily have to confess to victimization directly to an
interviewer, and one that makes an effort to gather data from multiple facilities of
different types so that greater generalization is possible. Based on these criteria, the
research indicates that such studies typically report prison sexual victimization rates
of around 20%, suggesting that prison sexual victimization is a significant problem
to be addressed. [/quote]

And as for why, well:

[quote]The act was commonly
described as inmates resorting to sex because of the deprivations associated with
confinement (Alarid,2000b; Koscheski et al.,2002; Money & Bohmer,1980; Sagarin,
1976; Tewksbury, 1989a); as such, the distinction between sexual victimization and
consensual same-sex sexual activity was ambiguous (Alarid, 2000b). Consequently,
there was little recognition that sex occurring in prison could be defined as assaultive
and coerced and that coerced sex was a form of sexual victimization. Beginning in
the early 1980s, however, researchers began to move toward a social constructionist
approach (Alarid, 2000a, 2000b), and with this framework, a more accurate and
informed body of research emerged concerning characteristics of inmates especially
vulnerable to sexual victimization (Dumond, 2003).
Accordingly, scholars have suggested that the act of prison sexual victimization
is more complex than traditional explanations contend it to be (Rideau & Sinclair,
1984). This view is supported by prison officials, criminological and psychological
practitioners, academic scholars, and prisoners themselves who agree that sexual
deprivation is not the main source of the phenomenon (Mariner,2001). An alternative
explanation is that the perpetration of sexual victimization in prison is more about
power and control than it is about obtaining sexual gratification. Through the exam-
ination of the unique nature of prison culture and prison life, this alternative expla-
nation proposes that the psychological pain involved in prison life creates in inmates
an urgent need to reinforce a sense of self,personal worth,and control,which they obtain
via sexual victimization (Hassine, 1999; Prichard, 2000). Unable to pursue normal
venues of personal gratification, these inmates channel their energy and frustrations
into the only available avenue to them - the pursuit of power (Mariner,2001; Parenti,
1999; Prichard,2000; Rideau & Sinclair,1984). With limited access to appropriate means
of exerting power within the prison walls, these inmates obtain it by establishing
control over other inmates through sexual victimization using violence and/or
coercion (Hassine, 1999; Rideau & Sinclair, 1984). [/quote]

Jones, T., & Pratt, T. (2008, June). The Prevalence of Sexual Violence in Prison: The State of the Knowledge Base and Implications for Evidence-Based Correctional Policy Making. International Journal of Offender Therapy & Comparative Criminology, 52(3), 280-295.

So there you go. Statistics.

P.S. I went ahead and fucked with the formatting. You’re all welcome.

…a voice of reason on this board is like a warm bath after a long day’s work…

[edited to prevent delusion]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Phil, go back, read my post again, get out a dictionary to check the long words then try, really try to understand that arousal is the bodies physical response, desire is the mental state, the two are linked but not the same thing.

Come on budy, work with me on this one…[/quote]

Perhaps you should stick with learning how to spell simple words like “buddy” before you dispense advice on long words…

Anyway… I am not impressed by the psychobabble that you posted. Some of it is also borderline pedophile propaganda.

Here are some scientists who tried to come up with a scientific reason for heterosexual rape:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_38/ai_75820043/?tag=content;col1

In short:
"In the opening pages of the third chapter, “Why do men rape?,” Thornhill and Palmer quote the eminent biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky, who wrote that, “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.” Biology, in turn, is the study of life. Thus, nothing in life or about the functioning of living organisms can be fully understood without an appreciation of evolution by natural selection. This is not a controversial statement to any modern biologist. Many standard social scientists, however, seem to believe that humans are somehow less susceptible to or exempt from evolution by natural selection, because our “culture” mysteriously and magically over-powers evolution. Thornhill and Palmer dismantle this and many other misunderstandings regarding evolution by natural selection, and clarify for the reader that not only are humans not exempt from evolution by natural selection, but that humans and all forms of life on earth exist today because of evolution by natural selection. Having clarified the importance of evolution to understanding life, Thornhill and Palmer note that, “Evolutionary theory applies to rape, as it does to other areas of human affairs, on both logical and evidentiary grounds. There is no legitimate scientific reason not to apply evolutionary or ultimate hypotheses to rape. The only scientific question concerns how to apply theoretical biology to a particular aspect of human endeavors. Evolutionary history would be applicable to human rape even if it were explicable only as a trait that exists as a result of evolutionarily novel circumstances faced by modern humans. And if such were the case, one would still want to know why men’s psychological adaptations are designed in a way that yields rape behavior in the novel circumstances” (p. 55).

In later sections of the book, Thornhill and Palmer debunk the hypothesis that rape is entirely attributable to evolutionarily novel circumstances, citing evidence such as the cross-cultural incidence and prevalence of rape. Thornhill and Palmer address and dismiss with convincing empirical and theoretical evidence several ultimate hypotheses for rape including, for example, that rape is a “phylogenetic holdover”–that is, that males rape because they are descendants of males who raped. Thornhill and Palmer conclude that, “There are currently only two likely candidates for ultimate causes of human rape: It may be an adaptation that was directly favored by selection because it increased male reproductive success by way of increasing mate number. That is, there may be psychological mechanisms designed specifically to influence males to rape in ways that would have produced a net reproductive benefit in the past”(p. 60).

The second hypothesis, the “byproduct hypothesis,” is that, “[Rape] may only be a product of other psychological adaptations, especially those that function to produce the sexual desires of males for multiple partners without commitment. In this case, there would not be any psychological mechanism designed specifically to influence males to rape in ways that would have produced a net reproductive benefit in the past” (p. 61). Much of the remainder of the third chapter, and various sections throughout the remainder of the book, present the empirical and theoretical work supportive of and contrary to each of these hypotheses. Thornhill and Palmer take the reader on a fascinating scientific and intellectual journey as they consider the status of the two competing evolutionary hypotheses for rape. Thornhill and Palmer clearly note for the reader, however, that both hypotheses remain viable, and that future empirical work is required to resolve which hypothesis better describes reality…"

I think that these guys might be onto something. If men rape women to benefit themselves genetically, then it is at the expense of women. Besides the various emotional and psychological trauma and pain that rape victims experience, it also negatively affects their reproductive successes on many levels and in absence of abortions would actually potentially make them nurse the offspring that was not only not their choice, but also of a low genetic quality character (no offense to you rapists out there :wink: