Making test E from powder, have homebrew several times in the past and now when I made 30grams worth I accidentally added double BB. and after my warm finished and filter vial of formula cools down it turns into a very light yellow milky colour. Not cloudy no swirls. Is a thin oily solution.When I heated it up again it turned into the oily colour but cooled down into the other colour again, no crystal have form inside the solution either,
WHAT CAUSES THIS?
IS IT STILL SAFE TO USE?
Made at 250mg/ml
Deleted. See new post.
What type of filter did you use, as in brand? Also what was your filter medium? (Made of)
With double BB chances are your solution started to break down either the receiving vessel, the top vessel or the membrane itself. Depending on brand and what the part that started to break down was made of you should not be looking at a toxic end result but without knowing more I can’t say.
If my memory serves me there is really only one serious concern. Some receiving vessels are made from this stuff that’s really really close to styrofoam. That stuff turns to gooiey shit when in contact with certain solvents like BB. I don’t think it is toxic to ingest but it can take a while for your body to move it out and if enough is in you then you can have issues.
I used an 500ml PES disposable vacuum filter unit with .22um filter , then I used the syringe .22 filter when filling up the vials for extra measure
I have used these units before and never had this issue. So my only fault was adding double the BB by mistake. My main concern is why the different colour when its cooled down and is it still safe to use?
I actually just by chance read about this yesterday, I was looking for different oil based winstrol recipes. BB and EO can actually eat at the material the syringes are made from. The recipe I was looking at had high EO and that bit about eating at the syringe was just like a FYI inclusion. I would think that if the milkiness is from the BB and the syringe or any part of the filters then it shouldn’t be toxic for you. Think about it basically anything and everything will leave traces of it self when it comes in contact with something else so they wouldn’t make a syringe out of something that at any level would be hazardous to us. But I am not a doctor.
By any chance are your vacuum filters a red rapid flow set up? It might be worded differently from “rapid flow” depending on if it is older stock. Regardless of when they made it the filter part in-between the top receiving vessel and the bottoms receiving vessel is red. I want to say nalgene or something close is the brand.
I have some lists that show the compatibility of different filter membranes and various chemicals. The only list that I have with benzyl benzoate shows that the is not enough data to comment about it’s compatibility with PES.
I don’t know exactly why it has that milkiness to it but I got the same results on one of my early test brews. Ultimately the amount of solvents made the solution dissolve the vessels a little bit. I could see the oil clear on top and as the volume increased in the bottom it became milky. Afterwards I researched and figured it had to be a compatibility issue with the vessel material or membrane material. I took the top of the vessel, it had never been in contact with the oil and I put little drops of each thing I used in the solution. I had a ba drop, bb drop, gso drop, and an EO drop. The only drops that became sticky and left a mark where they dissolved part of the top were the BB and EO drops. EO was worse than the BB.
Was the inside of the top of the vacuum filter sticky like melted plastic? When I took the lid off of the top after filtering I noticed it was sticky like the plastic was starting to melt.
Weather it’s safe to use or not IDK. It is pretty likely they don’t make those filters out of toxic material just because what they are used for.
Ok, then that’s a different story. PES is for aqueous solutions. They are not meant to filter oil. Add in too much BB and your filter probably deteriorated. I would not use your gear at this point. You have no way to know if it’s sterile. Toss it and start over. Get the proper filter and this won’t happen again.
From the last time I made to this time I made the only difference was the extra BB, filters were all the same make as before.
My finish solution is still a nice thin liquid, same consistency and no settlement at the bottle
It doesn’t matter if the filters were the same or not your oil had twice the BB that was the issue. I personally had issues like yours when I used the red rapid flow vacuum filters by nalgene. It had to do with higher levels of solvents (my case was the EO) and the material they made the top vessel out of. Chances are if you used a nalgene vacuum filter then the same thing happened with your batch, just to high concentrations of solvents (BB). That higher level allowed the brew to start dissolving the receiving vessel on top of the vacuum filter.
If you search either “cloudy home brew” or “milky home brew” and I forget which one I was searching when I found it. You will find this forum discussion where a number of us home Brewers have had this issue and one of the guys figured out it was happening with the higher levels of solvents reacting to the material the top vessel of the vacuum filters. He identified the brand he was using and that it was made from X material then when he switched brands of filters he didn’t have the problem anymore. The new brand obviously made their vessel out of a different material. I am going to see if I can find the thread so I can direct you to it. It was after I found that thread that i took the top from the vessel and did my little drop test that led me to realize the BB and EO could start to dissolve the material.
I know that the red rapid flow filters by nalgene are made from the material that will start to dissolve at higher concentration levels of solvents like BB or EO. I actually still use them because I had a hell of a time finding any 150ml filters so when I found them I bought a 12 pack before I knew about the compatibility issue. I just have to watch my solvent levels. After that first time getting a milky/slightly cloudy finished product I have adjusted my levels and have not had the issue anymore.
As far as the PES filter membrane, Iron is correct in traditional settings like professional labs the PES is for aqueous or water based solutions. That being said plenty of home Brewers swear by the PES filters for their oil based stuff but that doesn’t mean the guys swearing on them are informed. Sesame oil can dissolve PES. I originally wanted PVDF membranes because they had the best all around compatibility and no known issues with any commonly used oils or solvents in the home brew AAS world. The key word there is “known”. Those PVDF filters sell out in minutes when anyone gets them in stock, all us home Brewers must have alerts set up for when the filters get in stock. Anyways I had to settle on Nylon filters which do have some compatibility issues but plenty of Brewers use them without issue. I am 95% sure my milky or cloudy results were not from the filter breaking down but I am not a chemist.