Hijack Haven

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:<<< a holder of a PhD in History who also happens to be a devout Christian and ordained Baptist minister.[/quote]Forgive me man, but a cereal box is more reliable than many people allegedly educated in history and being ordained means almost nothing anymore. In fact, you may think I’m blaming the non Christian citizenry of this nation for her ills. No sir. The CHURCH, who has forsaken the very gospel that was utterly mainstream in the 18th and 19th centuries here, the one I preach, has been seduced by every imaginable form of compromise modernistic heresy and immorality. WE are the salt and the light of the earth. Jesus said so. He also said that if the salt loses it’s saltiness it is useless. Salt is a metaphor for preserving from rot. We have lost our saltiness. With continued civility and respect, the fact you and dozens of others here call just about anything Christian demonstrates my point. I’m not being sarcastic. “Christian” meant something then that just everybody agreed on in the essentials. The essentials that I talk about here every day. I’m simply what they were. Ya’ll are the weird ones by the standard of our early history. I’m not being a jackass man. That is the truth though.
[/quote]

Yes, a PhD holder who has published a plethora of academic work on Christianity in America and is incredibly involved in ministry is surely not credible. Not to mention his professional expertise as a Intelligence Analyst both in the military and the Central Intelligence Agency, as well as numerous postings as an American Ambassador. You obviously come out on top with your divinely revealed knowledge of scripture in spite of of such incredibly rigorous training and professional experience.[/quote]That’s entirely possible. “Incredibly rigorous training and professional experience” prove nothing in these kinds of topics by themselves. None of that necessarily gets me excited and ministry means what? The worst enemies of the gospel today are ministers allegedly of it. I’m only being honest. Bring him here. I’d be happy to talk to him. However, I don’t have any unique extra sanctified “divinely revealed knowledge of scripture”. I simply see what millions of other historic Christians have and do see there.
[/quote]

Ummm they really, really do. I’m sure you also think your knowledge surpasses his own concerning foreign affairs and the national security apparatus due to the “ton of studying on your own.” I just read the wiki-page on theoretical physics. I’m ready for Steven Hawking now.
[/quote]Ummm, but they really don’t. I’m ready for Stephen Hawking even if I never heard of theoretical physics. You really do not pay attention. I’ll debate Him, Dawkins, Dennet, Miller, Nye and any 5 other guys you find along with everybody on this site at the same time, have them all cornered and never have to discuss anything beyond 2+2 equaling 4. Not because I’m the most invincible intellect ever to be spawned from father Adam. Not at all.

My position has been authored in eternity by an all wise all knowing God who has equipped me to present and defend it. I do and I will. The results are His problem. Mine is to obey Him. If he uses me to save some then I am most humbly grateful indeed for having been of service to Him. If NOBODY listens? I am most humbly grateful indeed and bow before Him in adoring worship that He has counted me among His own and blessed me with gifts to do His will.

Your scholars, while surely brilliant and highly capable fellers, have almost to a man never once considered the foundations of thought itself. Especially their own. I see it in the bible and everywhere else. Including here. A tattooed, scarred, former junkie and 10th grade dropout + the most high God = victory for His name’s sake. Whether you or your academics like it or not. Please start reading at verse 18 to the end of the chapter. 1 Corinthians 1 ESV

EDIT: Let’s take this to Hijack Haven. My fault.
[/quote]

“Your scholars, while surely brilliant and highly capable fellers, have almost to a man never once considered the foundations of thought itself. Especially their own.” Oh, do you have first hand knowledge of the philosophical foundations and innermost thoughts of the world’s foremost academics? You simply cannot make such a ludicrous assertion without proof. Unless you can read minds. Can you read minds Trib? What makes you capable of having a meaningful debate concerning Intelligence Analysis to a CIA Intelligence Analyst? Or Diplomacy with a State Department Diplomat? Or History with someone with a PhD from one of the top departments in the world? It is simply deluded hubris on your part.

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That is NOT thought itself. DrMatt (and DrSkeptix) has the same problem you do. YOU have not considered the foundations of thought itself because you have no idea what that means. Not because you’re a brain dead imbecile. You’re a smart enough guy. Let’s put it this way. I’ve been having this discussion for 23 years and Kamui and one other person are the only two non Christians I’ve ever met who had any idea what I was talking about when I started it here. Jist doesn’t come up. A few here have widened out their horizons some since we’ve been talking about this. I’ll say again. While the particular presentation and formulation is mine, NOT ONE thought I’ve ever put forward here originates with me. I stand on the shoulders of giants who went before me. Check the epistemology thread. I mean no disrespect or animosity. Honest I don’t, but it’s no wonder you think DrMatt answered me when to this day he does not even understand what I am asking him. Please do look over our exchange once again if you would. Seriously. Groo, was close to at least getting the question right. It IS NOT a complicated question btw. Childishly simple as a matter of fact, but utterly foreign to the way we naturally think having been separated from God through sin. http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/bill_nye_2_creationism_is_not_appropriate_for_children_?id=5364844&pageNo=2 I’m enjoying talking to you btw. I hope you don’t think I’m trying to be a an ass here.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
That is NOT thought itself. DrMatt (and DrSkeptix) has the same problem you do. YOU have not considered the foundations of thought itself because you have no idea what that means. Not because you’re a brain dead imbecile. You’re a smart enough guy. Let’s put it this way. I’ve been having this discussion for 23 years and Kamui and one other person are the only two non Christians I’ve ever met who had any idea what I was talking about when I started it here. Jist doesn’t come up. A few here have widened out their horizons some since we’ve been talking about this. I’ll say again. While the particular presentation and formulation is mine, NOT ONE thought I’ve ever put forward here originates with me. I stand on the shoulders of giants who went before me. Check the epistemology thread. I mean no disrespect or animosity. Honest I don’t, but it’s no wonder you think DrMatt answered me when to this day he does not even understand what I am asking him. Please do look over our exchange once again if you would. Seriously. Groo, was close to at least getting the question right. It IS NOT a complicated question btw. Childishly simple as a matter of fact, but utterly foreign to the way we naturally think having been separated from God through sin. http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/bill_nye_2_creationism_is_not_appropriate_for_children_?id=5364844&pageNo=2 I’m enjoying talking to you btw. I hope you don’t think I’m trying to be a an ass here.[/quote]

I’ve studied epistemology to a degree but nothing beyond a basic level. So, epistemologically, try to convince me of Christianity’s viability over other religious philosophies. (Namely, Deism, which I currently adhere to) On my part, I will sincerely consider any argument you make with an open mind.

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If you guys start a new discussion about this, count me in.
that’s the good thing about the elections : now it’s over, we can argue about serious topics again.

365

[quote]kamui wrote:
If you guys start a new discussion about this, count me in.
that’s the good thing about the elections : now it’s over, we can argue about serious topics again.[/quote]My homey!!! We should get back to the epistemology thread and get more into the problem of the one and the many which is where we left off I believe. Legionary, this man and I have a unique relationship of mutual respect. He is definitely somewhere in my top five list of most brilliant men I have ever personally encountered. We absolutely agree and absolutely disagree on the exact same things at the exact same time. More later. Gym time.

366

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Tiribulus
As a Christian myself, I have no shame in doing what David did in 2nd Samuel. >>>[/quote]Please tell me what each of these means and why.

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Ok, Tirib …here I am, what did you want to know as regards my statement? I lost it in the explosion of pages there, or I would’ve quoted it here.

368

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Ok, Tirib …here I am, what did you want to know as regards my statement? I lost it in the explosion of pages there, or I would’ve quoted it here. [/quote]I honestly am not sure what you’re referring to, but I’m on a church computer in the middle of a rehearsal for the next several hours and will have limited time.

369

[quote]Karado wrote:<<< as a Deeply Flawed believer in Christ myself, >>>[/quote] I’m not looking to beat you up. I’m curious about people like you and I’m asking. What does this mean to you?

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What Paul believed when he likened himself to a filthy Rag, now if the writer of most of the NT
compared himself to that, what do you liken yourself to?

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I understand your defensiveness. I approach the throne of grace with empty hands and filthy rags indeed. I have no more and maybe less to commend myself to the holy God than you do, which is the point. How do we know what a believer n Christ is? And how do we know if we are one? I’m only looking for your answers. I am not trying to start a fight with you. I will however be up front. I’m pretty sure we view these things differently.

Just in case you care, I gained some respect for you by your taking the time to answer.

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“How do we know what a believer n Christ is? And how do we know if we are one?”

First of all A “believer” must begin with learning that Jesus was a real-life historical
figure and died for our sins. Knowing’ if we are a Believer is just keeping that faith I guess,
that’s why they called it “Faith”, I wanted to believe in SOMETHING last year and the other faiths were out of the question, despite all the Mountain of Crap that surrounds ours.
Too many differences…too fuckin many, because of that lack of absolute crystal clarity
confirmed by the hundreds of thelogians out there that always disagree with each other
on various important matters like, Preterism, Dispensationalism, etc. etc. etc.
I keep the Faith as simple as humanly possible…too many ‘faiths’ within the ‘faith’,
if you know what I mean.

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“How do we know what a believer n Christ is? And how do we know if we are one?”

IMHO A “believer” must begin with learning that Jesus was a real-life historical
figure that died for our sins. ‘Knowing’ I’m a Believer is just keeping that faith I guess,
that’s why they called it “Faith”, I wanted to believe in SOMETHING and the other faiths
out there were out of the question, despite all the Mountain of Crap that surrounds ours.
Too many differences…too fuckin many, because of that lack of absolute clarity
confirmed by the hundreds of thelogians out there that disagree with each other
on various important subjects like Preterism, Dispensationalism, etc. etc. etc.
I keep the Faith as simple as humanly possible…too many ‘faiths’ within the ‘faith’,
if you know what I mean.
I’m a relatively new believer, and I almost did not convert because of the
many differences, I was almost disgusted at the sheer number of differences,
but again the other beliefs were not for me, so I held my nose and started
believing in Christianity anyway.

374

Man I wish PM’s worked. This is a bit different than what I expected you to say. I meant it when I said I didn’t want to start a fight with you. What does it mean to you when you say you “converted”. OR, you can tell me to get lost.

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No problem, look here’s the deal, ‘conversion’ for me was simply asking forgiveness
of past Sins…THAT’S IT, IDK Much but I do know it’s as simple as that
if you are sincere about it, especially after enough research to know the truth about the ONE
Main thing, the ONLY no bullshit thing I needed to know, That Jesus was a real historical figure,
God in the flesh that died for us. I didn’t expect to FEEL anything, SEE anything,
or hear a Chorus of Angels at the time, some dumbasses actually expect that, I know better.
If the Thief On The Cross had absolutely no special requirements, rituals, or jumping any other hoops
to be saved, and was told by Jesus himself that he was Saved because he obviously knew
he was sincere, why should that simple moment of Salvation be any different for anybody
else? Simplicity is a must for me, anything that Smells of Complexity or Controversy
that I MUST do in ACTION that’s not Scriptual I will avoid like the fuckin’ Plague.

I notice alot of info here regarding Christian Issues, thats fine but if they don’t help out
in any tangle, viable, and noticeable way, I generally steer clear of it, the very last thing I
want to do is fill my head with Christian issues other than maybe a few things like exposing Charlatans, I don’t
suffer them very well, And I’ve noticed they are legion, because of those people I walk on Eggshells and will
not get pigeon holed into any Denomination, specific teacher, preacher, or Church.
it’s mostly just all Bullshit, not all of it is I realize, I’m just too careful with that
to the absolute extreme because there’s too much crap in Christiandom now, and
separating the wheat from the fuckin’ chaff is getting tougher in that realm.
That’s it man…I don’t like much talking about it here OR in a PM, but I thought
I’d share that much with ya anyway, and share who I believe who 2 of the very few legit
teachers are in Christian Media that I’ve vetted as throughly as I can, Ravi Zecharias is one
of them IMHO, and the other is Voddie Baucham, those are the two for me now…Integrity,
no bullshit, just tell it like it is.

376

[quote]Karado wrote:<<< Voddie Baucham, >>>[/quote]I cannot possibly recommend Voddie Bachum strongly enough. Voddie Baucham Sermons | SermonAudio He came to our church a couple years ago. Actually Zacharias is a friend of my pastor’s too. Dr. Voddie is absolutely right dead on 97% of the time in my view. Keep listening to him with your bible in hand. I was a baby believer once and not being one anymore, I know that God does not work in everybody the same. You do need to be in a church though. It’s a command and essential if you want to grow. Find one where they also like Voddie Bachum. Shouldn’t be that difficult. He is one of the most downloaded preachers at sermonaudio.com. I’m not trying to boss you around, but you NEED fellowship with MEN. Older mature men who have been walking with the Lord a long time. Please do believe that I am on your side and I know what I am talkin about. If the Holy Spirit led you to Bachum and Zacharias, He will lead you to a good church.

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[quote]anonym wrote:
Tiribulus,
When was it that you found Jesus, if you don’t mind my asking?[/quote] Late fall 1984. I was 20 years old and the very last thing on this earth I was looking for was Jesus. He came after me. Looking back I can clearly see that everything in my life to that point had led me to that apartment in west Phoenix.

378

“I know that God does not work in everybody the same.”

You’re not kidding, You and others witnessed some flaws of mine you have noticed already,
That’s fine for now, There are characters in Scripture that make my flaws look tame by comparison.
King Solomon had a bevy of Women that would make Hugh Hefner blush, his life wasn’t all
Roses and he had challenges, but almost everyone knows the Proverbs he penned, Too bad he didn’t give away his secret herb recipe for Virility to handle all those Ladies lol. Saul/Paul was a Murderer and wrote most of the NT, Noah got Drunk and Naked after the Flood, If I witnessed the end of the world like that
I woulda got blasted myself, I’m pretty certain God let that one slide for Noah.
I don’t need to remind you as you already know that, flawed peeps all over Scripture,
NOT to justify mine of course, but if there was hope for them there’s hope for anyone,
even for Hef while he’s still alive…(not holding my breath on that one.)
'Glad to know you are aware of Voddie and Ravi…, I won’t promise anything other than I’ll find a physical
place to go to eventually, but I will not struggle in doing that, that’s alot of work,
so it may be months or years 'til I’m led to one, everyone yearns for a “home”, and that
home is a bit different for everyone…'glad you found yours.

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I really wanna believe that you’re a new brother who’s just starting on his journey with Jesus. At this point I have no way of really knowing and it’s entirely possible. I’d rather er on the side of grace. Once again the absence of PM’s is killin me. I’ll say again. You cannot go wrong with Voddie Bachum especially. God will only tolerant immaturity for so long though and He WILL see that you come along if your His. Take it from one who knows. He was not only a historical person. He IS the risen Lord and if you belong to Him, He lives in you and it WILL become plain to those who know you. I promise.

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Fair enough, It’s a journey that I gotta see through alone, I know I’m on the right
path beginning this as I sacrificed practically all of my friends for it, and stopped drinking not long ago…It is proven time and time again massive immediate change is short-lived,
slow and steady wins the game if you will, It took me a LONG time to even make the decision
because of what it would entail, Do I like it? Not really, I lost some old friends, and I
had quite a few of ‘em, so now I’m dealin’ with it Man, ‘know what I mean?
Can drive ya nuts, I also want to be certain whatever I FEEL sometimes is real, and not just
endorphins making me feel good, because with all due respect people in CULTS have that
same ‘feeling’ and ‘commitment’ too, does that make sense?
Maybe one or two answered prayers, a small request in something I NEED (not want) at the moment
would reassure me…IDK, it’s too complex to explain, you wouldn’t understand now, just put in a good word for me,
and I’ll put in one for you, putting this serious prayer request to the test once again… how’s that?
Be well, I’ll be goin’ on the road soon, and may return soon here again maybe after
the Holidays…maybe.