High Unemployment Due to Lack of Demand

[countingbeans]

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Because I have enjoyed universal health care my entire life, and it’s fucking awesome. It is better than private health care in every way, shape, and form, period.[/quote]

Based on what? Your opinion? Care to back this up in any substantiated way, shape or form?

I’m a numbers guy, how about some of those?

I would never put my health care in the hands of an insurance company,

SO you aren’t one of the 66% of Canadians who have supplemental insurance. And I assume you pay for dentist visits out of pocket?

lol

The only thing worse than putting your health care in the hands of government administrators is putting your health care in the hands of a private insurance company.

lol, yeah, that is the ticket. When I needed to see a specialist, you know how long I had to wait? 10 days. If you needed to go see an endo, how long before you got in?

Everything you ever wanted to know about Canadian health care in one post

Your wait times suck homie… But don’t let objective views cloud your love of your government.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/19/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/

Statistics Show Canadian Healthcare Is Inferior to American System

And honestly, if your government turns around and figures they don’t want to cover a condition anymore, what happens then?

[quote]
The purpose of interest rates on student loans specifically, which are meant to be a social assistance program (at least in any civilized society) to ensure the working class have greater opportunity for self-advancement, are to cover the costs of administering the student loans. That’s it.[/quote]

Okay, there is a lot wrong with this. First off, no the purpose of the loans isn’t a “social assistance program”. The purpose of the loans is to provide a service. This service is to give people access to money so they can go to college. This service costs money to provide, both in administration costs, and this little fancy thing called “time value of money.” Interest rates do cover the admin costs, they also cover the value of the dollars lost over time.

So, your grand plan is to tie these rates, which provide a vast majority of the revenues for these companies to the short-term, overnight rate from the Fed? Well that eliminates the time value of money aspect, so you know what lenders will have to do? Charge a premium up front. So if a student needs 50k for school, they will loan the student 75k, and keep the extra 25k…

But you want the government to offer these loans that can’t be anything but cash negative? Oh… Cool, that means tax payers will just foot the bill for the difference, no problem. So now, I will have to pay my own loans, and everyone else’s too? Sweet…

[quote]

I suspect you would defend to the death the rights of financial institutions to bankrupt the world economy on CDO’s, which are literally shuffling money around in computers while accruing interest…[/quote]

Do you really know what a CDO is or do you just know the talking point? Honest question.

…but paying people to do real, necessary infrastructure work that has been neglected for years, even decades? Taking home their paycheques and making their mortgage payments, paying their taxes, their groceries, buying clothes, their car payments, fuel for the car, and the proven fact that these kinds of expenditures have a greater economic multiplier than do “tax breaks for X, Y, and Z type corporations”.

If it is proven, please provide a link to something of substance that backs this up.

That you call this “shuffling money around” is absolutely astounding.

Because the term “shuffling” is offensive to you? How is an accurate description astounding. Would you prefer I used “wealth redistribution by a third party, government” instead?

[quote]
Excuse me then. “Then majority of the rich don’t even pay anywhere near equivalent rate of taxes as paid by the rest of the 99% of Americans”. They don’t pay their equivalent share.[/quote]

Please back this up with numbers or stop posting bullshit.

protip: I do taxes for about 1,500+ hours a year. So to say that I know for certain your talking points on this subject are 100% made-up bullshit, is putting it lightly.

So please prove this or just stop lying your choice.

They get by on loopholes and special tax rates for ‘their’ special kind of income: dividends and cap gains.

Do you know what dividends are? Or cap gains? Do you know which Cap gains are taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income? Do you know what needs to take place in order to trigger a taxable event?

Can you name a single “loophole”?

Taxes are for the little people, after all, is the motto of the wealthiest.

What? Please stop making up shit, this isn’t Tale of Two Cities

How many trillions was it recently discovered are hidden in offshore accounts?

So I assume you don’t have an ipad, iphone, or ever buy anything off iTunes? Nor do you use windows products then?

lol

If you were paying attention the repatriation situation has been talked about for a long, long time now, and it is pretty obvious that the current rules aren’t getting the job done, if your goal is to tax the profits that are currently being held offshore.

[quote]
Ha! You have nothing. Absolutely nothing, and this proves it. [/quote]

What? I’m not the one making up fairy tales on the forum…

That the majority of people struggle their entire lives to carve out their place in the economy while an elite few enjoy the overwhelming majority of ownership and profit in the economy simply due to birthright is indefensible no matter which way you try to re-frame it.

Please substantiate that this happens.

Please show no income mobility in America, please show that “while an elite few enjoy the overwhelming majority of ownership and profit in the economy simply due to birthright”.

I grew up poor. Hand me down close and living with relatives. If it wasn’t for foodstamps I would have starved to death. Guess, what, I’m not poor anymore. Good thing I had that birthright…

The fact that the people who repeatedly occupy the commanding heights of the public and private spheres come from generations of wealth is proof positive that social support systems benefiting the working masses at the expense of these elites are absolutely necessary for the protection of the rights and freedoms of everyone.

You have contradicted yourself. You are forcing the “elites” to pay the way for everyone else, which violates their rights and freedoms.

I’m not into discrimination, and I don’t think it is okay to discriminate against people just because they have a lot or a little bit of money. You can enjoy that though.

[quote] They are vital and they must be protected by the participation of all citizens in the political process so that they do not get co-opted by the elites for their own profit.

…which is what has basically happened in America, and so Americans have a lot of work ahead of them.[/quote]

You need to brush up on your American History… Once you do this nonsense will seem just as silly to you as it does anyone else with a cursory knowledge of this country, its formation, and evolution through time.

Well I’m not sure why the American government particularly sucks at it, but it is definitely a structural problem and something you all should be working on.

Some of us are trying to, but those of you who yell “keep trying things that have failed time and time again” aren’t helping.

[MaximusB]

Zeppelin,

You need to understand some basic differences between the US and “other countries.”

Countries, like the ones in Europe, are not focused on being the global leader in the economy. It is not their priority. Their main focus is providing certain services for their people, paid for by the government, inevitably paid for by the people. While this might sound nice and fuzzy, the problem comes when the government controls your life decisions based on their collection of your taxes and massive regulations.

Do you REALLY think people like living in 1000 sq ft “flats” or apartments, that still cost $400k or more ? Do you REALLY think people like driving tiny little cars, or having to rely on a bus or train schedule to move about ?

When government takes nearly half of your money (and usually more than half) in taxation, they can herd you into the lifestyle THEY want you to live.

Government is the biggest, most clumsy, baby huey known to man.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Zeppelin,

You need to understand some basic differences between the US and “other countries.”

Countries, like the ones in Europe, are not focused on being the global leader in the economy. It is not their priority. Their main focus is providing certain services for their people, paid for by the government, inevitably paid for by the people. While this might sound nice and fuzzy, the problem comes when the government controls your life decisions based on their collection of your taxes and massive regulations.

Do you REALLY think people like living in 1000 sq ft “flats” or apartments, that still cost $400k or more ? Do you REALLY think people like driving tiny little cars, or having to rely on a bus or train schedule to move about ?

When government takes nearly half of your money (and usually more than half) in taxation, they can herd you into the lifestyle THEY want you to live.

Government is the biggest, most clumsy, baby huey known to man.

[/quote]

The countries in Europe that austerity has affected least are those who someone like O’Rielly would deem nanny states. So government spending has helped them. Maybe you should ask the people who live in the Eurozone what they prefer. Do you really think people like having very little to eat and nowhere to live?

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
You are so nieve that it is beyond reproach. To not know that corporations buy out the federal government is to be completely ignorant.

Our government is barely scraping by? Hmmm… now imagine if all those corporations were not allowed to hide their money offshore and had to pay taxes on it. But if you ay attention in the slightest you would know that these corporations send their hundreds of lobbyists to make sure the loopholes are there for them to do so under the veil of the law. But according to your reasoning this can’t happen because it is a government owned organization.

If you are really interested in reducing healthcare costs why not look at the way other countries keep their costs under control?[/quote]

I am not familiar with the definition of this “nieve” you say I am. Please define it for me.

Again, you are arguing that the government is responsible for problems, not corporations. No business has any power to force anything on anyone else.

I’m not sure what you claim I say is a government owned organization. If you are talking about the FDA, then yes, it is part of the government.

I thought I had already indicated that I’m not primarily interested in reducing the costs of anything. I prefer an unobstructed market set prices.

Do you have any insight into the direct consumer cost of healthcare in all those countries vs. the price paid by inmates of our prison system for their healthcare?[/quote]
My basic argument is that a government run for the benefit of corporations is the problem along with the corporations themselves.

Business sends hundreds of lobbyists to Washington to do their bidding so they are forcing by law. The FDA is only one example. It is a revolving door that ought to be against the law and is an obvious conflict of interest. Yes the FDA is a government organization but it is essentially owned by large pharmaceutical corporations. So I’m not absolving the government of it’s wrong doing and responsibilities but you are absolving the corporations of their misdeeds.

No I don’t don’t anything about healthcare inside the prison system.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

No crony capitalism or monopolistic behavior has nothing to do with my point. If you could see beyond your right-wing ideology you might be able to open up your mind.
[/quote]

Open my mind to the idea that GE owns the NYT?

Are you confusing the NYT with NBC and/or MSNBC? GE used to own them, but unless I’ve been asleep for the last 30 years, GE never owned the NYT.

Aside from that - Until you can answer my question - I won’t be helping you with your homework, and you will be left to wallow in your own ignorance.

[/quote]
Maybe I was mistaken on what GE owns. Maybe I have NYTimes confused with MSNBC and/or NBC. But it isn’t even germane to the point so a technicality doesn’t expose my argument.

And it is you who are being played for a fool my friend, my eyes are wide open.

[NickViar]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
My basic argument is that a government run for the benefit of corporations is the problem along with the corporations themselves.

Business sends hundreds of lobbyists to Washington to do their bidding so they are forcing by law. The FDA is only one example. It is a revolving door that ought to be against the law and is an obvious conflict of interest. Yes the FDA is a government organization but it is essentially owned by large pharmaceutical corporations. So I’m not absolving the government of it’s wrong doing and responsibilities but you are absolving the corporations of their misdeeds.

No I don’t don’t anything about healthcare inside the prison system.[/quote]

I agree that a government run primarily for the benefit of anyone is a problem.

Lobbyists have zero power-nada. The government is the one with a monopoly on the right to use force to make people comply with its demands. Lobbyists only exist because our government abuses its power.

I agree that government using its power to influence the economy is wrong.

Now that you’ve clarified your position on the FDA, I’m sure you are basically correct about it. Again, that is the fault of our elected officials.

I am not absolving crony capitalists/lemon socialists of anything. However, they have no power. We continue to elect pathetic pieces of shit who do their bidding to office, however, so the blame really rests on the American public for that.

The big problem is the overstepping of Constitutional bounds by our government. None of this economic interference can be justified by the Constitution.

[drunkpig]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Maybe I was mistaken on what GE owns. Maybe I have NYTimes confused with MSNBC and/or NBC. But it isn’t even germane to the point so a technicality doesn’t expose my argument.

And it is you who are being played for a fool my friend, my eyes are wide open.[/quote]

You answered three times that GE owned the NYT. You went on a rant about how the NYT led the drumbeat of war in Iraq.

Technicality? Not germane to the point? Monkey shit. Your complete and utter stupidity of anything business related has been my point since the beginning, junior. And you just drove that point home for me.

I should thank you for exposing your own ignorance for everyone to see. Too bad you are so wrapped up in whatever Real News has to say that you are incapable of realizing that you have been intellectually pantsed by everyone you engage in political debate.

[dmaddox]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Maybe I was mistaken on what GE owns. Maybe I have NYTimes confused with MSNBC and/or NBC. But it isn’t even germane to the point so a technicality doesn’t expose my argument.

And it is you who are being played for a fool my friend, my eyes are wide open.[/quote]

You answered three times that GE owned the NYT. You went on a rant about how the NYT led the drumbeat of war in Iraq.

Technicality? Not germane to the point? Monkey shit. Your complete and utter stupidity of anything business related has been my point since the beginning, junior. And you just drove that point home for me.

I should thank you for exposing your own ignorance for everyone to see. Too bad you are so wrapped up in whatever Real News has to say that you are incapable of realizing that you have been intellectually pantsed by everyone you engage in political debate.

[/quote]

We all know the Faux News is the Devil. The Real Newz is where the truth comes from. Zep told us that so it has to be true. Open you eyez to the truth and you shall be set free.

lmao.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Maybe I was mistaken on what GE owns. Maybe I have NYTimes confused with MSNBC and/or NBC. But it isn’t even germane to the point so a technicality doesn’t expose my argument.

And it is you who are being played for a fool my friend, my eyes are wide open.[/quote]

You answered three times that GE owned the NYT. You went on a rant about how the NYT led the drumbeat of war in Iraq.

Technicality? Not germane to the point? Monkey shit. Your complete and utter stupidity of anything business related has been my point since the beginning, junior. And you just drove that point home for me.

I should thank you for exposing your own ignorance for everyone to see. Too bad you are so wrapped up in whatever Real News has to say that you are incapable of realizing that you have been intellectually pantsed by everyone you engage in political debate.

[/quote]

How is corporate control of the media by outlets owned by GE made any less effectual by the particular outlet it owns. Was there any corporate news source against the invasion of Iraq?

So maybe I was mistaken on which major outlet source it owned how does that unravel the argument?

Again you can’t argue on facts so you have to claim victory by pointing out a technicality.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Maybe I was mistaken on what GE owns. Maybe I have NYTimes confused with MSNBC and/or NBC. But it isn’t even germane to the point so a technicality doesn’t expose my argument.

And it is you who are being played for a fool my friend, my eyes are wide open.[/quote]

You answered three times that GE owned the NYT. You went on a rant about how the NYT led the drumbeat of war in Iraq.

Technicality? Not germane to the point? Monkey shit. Your complete and utter stupidity of anything business related has been my point since the beginning, junior. And you just drove that point home for me.

I should thank you for exposing your own ignorance for everyone to see. Too bad you are so wrapped up in whatever Real News has to say that you are incapable of realizing that you have been intellectually pantsed by everyone you engage in political debate.

[/quote]

We all know the Faux News is the Devil. The Real Newz is where the truth comes from. Zep told us that so it has to be true. Open you eyez to the truth and you shall be set free.

lmao.[/quote]
Again nothing of substance from you. No wonder you like Faux News. The Real News takes no government hand-outs or advertising dollars from corporations. Nor are they owned by an even bigger corporation so they do not have to tow the line. Unlike corporate news sources who’s main thrust is profit not the truth.

[drunkpig]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Again nothing of substance from you. No wonder you like Faux News. The Real News takes no government hand-outs or advertising dollars from corporations. Nor are they owned by an even bigger corporation so they do not have to tow the line. Unlike corporate news sources who’s main thrust is profit not the truth.[/quote]

Perhaps Real News ahould change their business model so that they can generate the revenue required to hire Real Journalists.

Since they no longer own the NYT - perhaps GE might be interested in Real News. I think it would be the perfect match. They both want the government to be grown to levels no one can afford.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
My basic argument is that a government run for the benefit of corporations is the problem along with the corporations themselves.

Business sends hundreds of lobbyists to Washington to do their bidding so they are forcing by law. The FDA is only one example. It is a revolving door that ought to be against the law and is an obvious conflict of interest. Yes the FDA is a government organization but it is essentially owned by large pharmaceutical corporations. So I’m not absolving the government of it’s wrong doing and responsibilities but you are absolving the corporations of their misdeeds.

No I don’t don’t anything about healthcare inside the prison system.[/quote]

I agree that a government run primarily for the benefit of anyone is a problem.

Lobbyists have zero power-nada. The government is the one with a monopoly on the right to use force to make people comply with its demands. Lobbyists only exist because our government abuses its power.

I agree that government using its power to influence the economy is wrong.

Now that you’ve clarified your position on the FDA, I’m sure you are basically correct about it. Again, that is the fault of our elected officials.

I am not absolving crony capitalists/lemon socialists of anything. However, they have no power. We continue to elect pathetic pieces of shit who do their bidding to office, however, so the blame really rests on the American public for that.

The big problem is the overstepping of Constitutional bounds by our government. None of this economic interference can be justified by the Constitution.

[/quote]

Yes lobbyists have no power, why, because they aren’t elected? You need to get a hold of the hundreds of corporations to tell them to stop sending so many lobbyists to Washington since they have no power but I"m afraid they would laugh you off the phone. Corporations love people with your mentality because they can continue to rig the system in their favor while folks like you point at the government. You have bought into the propaganda hook, line and sinker.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Again nothing of substance from you. No wonder you like Faux News. The Real News takes no government hand-outs or advertising dollars from corporations. Nor are they owned by an even bigger corporation so they do not have to tow the line. Unlike corporate news sources who’s main thrust is profit not the truth.[/quote]

Perhaps Real News ahould change their business model so that they can generate the revenue required to hire Real Journalists.

Since they no longer own the NYT - perhaps GE might be interested in Real News. I think it would be the perfect match. They both want the government to be grown to levels no one can afford.
[/quote]

Why should they change? So dolts like you will believe them? Their whole model is to report the stories others won’t because they are not beholden to anyone.

[drunkpig]

Lol. I’m a dolt in the eyes of arguably the biggest dolt in PWI. Protect your propaganda source at all costs.

Has

[countingbeans]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
Lol. I’m a dolt in the eyes of arguably the biggest dolt in PWI. Protect your propaganda source at all costs.

Has[/quote]

lol, Dude thinks the answer to an over reaching government that is in bed with big business at the detriment of the people and our freedom is to give that same government more power and control…

What do you expect? You want freedom, of course he thinks you’re a dolt. You want to be able to think for yourself and make your own way in life without the government cupping your balls for you… Of course he thinks you’re stupid, he couldn’t fathom that.

[NickViar]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Yes lobbyists have no power, why, because they aren’t elected? You need to get a hold of the hundreds of corporations to tell them to stop sending so many lobbyists to Washington since they have no power but I"m afraid they would laugh you off the phone. Corporations love people with your mentality because they can continue to rig the system in their favor while folks like you point at the government. You have bought into the propaganda hook, line and sinker.
[/quote]

If I believed in evolution, I would have a hard time explaining you.

[dmaddox]

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Yes lobbyists have no power, why, because they aren’t elected? You need to get a hold of the hundreds of corporations to tell them to stop sending so many lobbyists to Washington since they have no power but I"m afraid they would laugh you off the phone. Corporations love people with your mentality because they can continue to rig the system in their favor while folks like you point at the government. You have bought into the propaganda hook, line and sinker.
[/quote]

If I believed in evolution, I would have a hard time explaining you.[/quote]

lmao. I am loosing it right now. Everyone sees through Zep except Pitt. Bless your hearts.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
Lol. I’m a dolt in the eyes of arguably the biggest dolt in PWI. Protect your propaganda source at all costs.

Has[/quote]

lol, Dude thinks the answer to an over reaching government that is in bed with big business at the detriment of the people and our freedom is to give that same government more power and control…

What do you expect? You want freedom, of course he thinks you’re a dolt. You want to be able to think for yourself and make your own way in life without the government cupping your balls for you… Of course he thinks you’re stupid, he couldn’t fathom that. [/quote]

And what do you think would happen if government was not involved at all. Kinda like what happened when they removed the regulations on the finance sector. But I’m sure you would think it would be a fairyland of bliss.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Yes lobbyists have no power, why, because they aren’t elected? You need to get a hold of the hundreds of corporations to tell them to stop sending so many lobbyists to Washington since they have no power but I"m afraid they would laugh you off the phone. Corporations love people with your mentality because they can continue to rig the system in their favor while folks like you point at the government. You have bought into the propaganda hook, line and sinker.
[/quote]

If I believed in evolution, I would have a hard time explaining you.[/quote]

lmao. I am loosing it right now. Everyone sees through Zep except Pitt. Bless your hearts.[/quote]

Please go away as you provide nothing of substance, ever…

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Again nothing of substance from you. No wonder you like Faux News. The Real News takes no government hand-outs or advertising dollars from corporations. Nor are they owned by an even bigger corporation so they do not have to tow the line. Unlike corporate news sources who’s main thrust is profit not the truth.[/quote]

Perhaps Real News ahould change their business model so that they can generate the revenue required to hire Real Journalists.

Since they no longer own the NYT - perhaps GE might be interested in Real News. I think it would be the perfect match. They both want the government to be grown to levels no one can afford.
[/quote]

Real journalists, you mean like Hannity, O’Rielly and Beck.