That’s the reason you gave, not me. I think god doesn’t offer concrete proof of his existence because there is no god to offer such evidence. If evidence presents itself to contradict that point of view, I’m ready to change my opinion on that.
If that’s good enough for you, go for it. I prefer to believe things based on evidence.
What about those whose faith is driving them to commit horrific acts?
God, by definition, cannot be created. How can something uncaused, be caused? It’s illogical.
You can stop with this shit any time. It’s verifiable that the most murderous people to ever lived, lived last century and those people were anti-religious and hence were not informed by any religious doctrine whatsoever. It’s not even a close contest.
Whenever I read threads like this, where people explain the rationale of worshipping a God who will send you to Hell if you don’t believe in him, makes me content in my decision to take my chances with the devil. Maybe the devil isn’t an insecure premadonna with the temperament of a 12 year old.
Also, can you imagine all the MAGA hats in heaven? Given that born again /evangelicals support Trump like no other religious/non-religious group.
You can take a deep breath. You can read what I wrote without looking for some meaning you would like it to have so you have an excuse to get angry. The fact is, and it is a fact that not even you will deny, that there are people who are killing in the name of their god at this very moment. Take another deep breath. Now just look at what I asked, and what it was in response to. It was not a critique of all faiths. It was not an attack on all faiths. It was in reference to certain faiths, not all faiths, who believe that violence is a moral means to an end. People who you yourself will admit exist. Take another deep breath. Look at the actual words I wrote: “those whose.” That means I am not referring to everyone but those who even you will admit exist.
Your response was an answer looking for a question, or more likely, an argument looking for an argument.
Maybe all the bad things said about Hell, and all the bad behaviors that will land you there, are simply the devil’s way of trying to keep out the squares.
I’ve posted this before, but to be purely pragamatic here.
"… surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people. Most of these effects have been documented in Europe too. If you believe that morality is about happiness and suffering, then I think you are obligated to take a close look at the way religious people actually live and ask what they are doing right…
…Religious believers give more money than secular folk to secular charities, and to their neighbors. They give more of their time, too, and of their blood. Even if you excuse secular liberals from charity because they vote for government welfare programs, it is awfully hard to explain why secular liberals give so little blood. The bottom line, Brooks concludes, is that all forms of giving go together, and all are greatly increased by religious participation and slightly increased by conservative ideology (after controlling for religiosity)
These data are complex and perhaps they can be spun the other way, but at the moment it appears that Dennett is wrong in his reading of the literature. Atheists may have many other virtues, but on one of the least controversial and most objective measures of moral behavior—giving time, money, and blood to help strangers in need—religious people appear to be morally superior to secular folk."
Quoted from the last few paragraphs of this article by Jonathan Haidt.
https://www.edge.org/conversation/jonathan_haidt-moral-psychology-and-the-misunderstanding-of-religion
I hate that song, whether you believe in God or not, it is showing a lot of needless disrespect.
Here’s more recent academic research:
"Our study looks at a large number of different religious groups across 100 countries – from 1981 to 2014 – using data from the World Value Survey.
Our findings suggest that Protestants, Buddhists and Roman Catholics are happier and more satisfied with their lives, compared with other groups. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and the non-religious were in between, while Orthodox Christians were found to have the lowest happiness and life satisfaction rates."
God created that song.
How dareeeee yeeeee
Hey, thank you. I’ll poke around the WVS data on religion. @antiquity, I’ve recommended Haidt’s book, The Righteous Mind here before. I think you’d enjoy it.
Question, how do they measure happiness? Do they just ask someone if they are happy? Because, it could be that religious people, since they believe in something they can’t prove, might simply “believe” they are happy and atheists see the world for what it is and don’t find solace in believing it’s all part of some plan.
6 of one half dozen of the other isn’t it though? Happiness is all about perception and personal introspection (although I do agree that at a base line it would make sense that religious people ID as happier)
Which tells you something about how full of crap they are. If they truly believed in heaven and hell most of them would be neurotic.
Why?
Because every decision they make would be preceded by wondering if it will send them to hell. Because they don’t follow the rules they believe in but think it’s OK because they don’t need to be perfect. Keep those fingers crossed.
Alright! Now I am even happier seeing this.
Maybe I’ll pick that up myself.
Religious folks also have another metric that weighs heavily in happiness. Spiritual well being.
So you could very well have quite a few people that if they were only measuring happiness materially would be so-so, could be better could be worse. But they have faith and some sense that salvation awaits, which relieves a lot of the burdens which detract from happiness. End result- more happier.