“I believe that our federal government has become oppressive in its size, its intrusion into the lives of our citizens, and its interference with the affairs of our state,” Gov. Perry said. “That is why I am here today to express my unwavering support for efforts all across our country to reaffirm the states’ rights affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I believe that returning to the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution and its essential 10th Amendment will free our state from undue regulations, and ultimately strengthen our Union.”
That’s right! I think this is a good thing!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The 10th amendment doesn’t mean shit if the feds hold the purse strings. They don’t have to regulate anything. They can just take our money and then hold it hostage. Obedient states get money, others do not. Pretty simple really.
How do you think we go universal speed limits, drinking ages, and DUI laws? All one needs to do is look at where our confiscated money ends up and you will see unwavering volentary obedience.
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.[/quote]
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.[/quote]
Now that’s an interesting angle. Could he use the 10th ammendment to keep them out of jail? Could he refuse to jail anyone committed of a crime the state of texas does not recognize? They may be fucked if they ever left the state.
Never thought of that.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.[/quote]
We should keep this particular discussion alive. There are things that would have to be worked though.
-
Would the 10th keep the feds from arresting anyone while in the state of TX.
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What happens if an individual not paying taxes leaves the state?
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What happens to a business, wanting to do business outside of TX, if they do not pay taxes?
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What happens to tax paying businesses aiding non-taxpaying businesses in tranport of goods or services?
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What happens to tax paying businesses that refuse to garnish a non-tax paying individuals salary?
This is an interesting idea but you would almost certainly need the support of a majority of states to nulifing any federal backlash. Basically you need a bunch of state gov’ts willing to put their national politicians in a possition where they either vote for smaller gov’t or send non-compliant constituents to jail.
If we had enough state gov’ts and individuals willing to do this, we would already have a smaller gov’t.
1)If a state gov’t is conservative enough to do this, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
2)If a state has enought constituents willing to do what is necessary to make this effective, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
So again it comes down to the voting public. I am afraid this gets us no closer to small gov’t. But it should provide for an intesting discussion.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.[/quote]
Don’t get too far ahead of your self. Perry is no friend to the Citizen. He is simply gearing up for a soon to be hotly contested primary. Since many conservatives don’t care for him he is trying to play to them.
political ploy
[quote]dhickey wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
We should keep this particular discussion alive. There are things that would have to be worked though.
-
Would the 10th keep the feds from arresting anyone while in the state of TX.
-
What happens if an individual not paying taxes leaves the state?
-
What happens to a business, wanting to do business outside of TX, if they do not pay taxes?
-
What happens to tax paying businesses aiding non-taxpaying businesses in tranport of goods or services?
-
What happens to tax paying businesses that refuse to garnish a non-tax paying individuals salary?
This is an interesting idea but you would almost certainly need the support of a majority of states to nulifing any federal backlash. Basically you need a bunch of state gov’ts willing to put their national politicians in a possition where they either vote for smaller gov’t or send non-compliant constituents to jail.
If we had enough state gov’ts and individuals willing to do this, we would already have a smaller gov’t.
1)If a state gov’t is conservative enough to do this, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
2)If a state has enought constituents willing to do what is necessary to make this effective, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
So again it comes down to the voting public. I am afraid this gets us no closer to small gov’t. But it should provide for an intesting discussion.[/quote]
You almost get to a point of where the loyalty of the police and national guard lie.
Last time taxes were nullified by a state, congress authorized military force against the state. Do you think Pelsose and the Dems in congress are crazy enough to legislate military force against a state in modern times?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
dhickey wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
We should keep this particular discussion alive. There are things that would have to be worked though.
-
Would the 10th keep the feds from arresting anyone while in the state of TX.
-
What happens if an individual not paying taxes leaves the state?
-
What happens to a business, wanting to do business outside of TX, if they do not pay taxes?
-
What happens to tax paying businesses aiding non-taxpaying businesses in tranport of goods or services?
-
What happens to tax paying businesses that refuse to garnish a non-tax paying individuals salary?
This is an interesting idea but you would almost certainly need the support of a majority of states to nulifing any federal backlash. Basically you need a bunch of state gov’ts willing to put their national politicians in a possition where they either vote for smaller gov’t or send non-compliant constituents to jail.
If we had enough state gov’ts and individuals willing to do this, we would already have a smaller gov’t.
1)If a state gov’t is conservative enough to do this, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
2)If a state has enought constituents willing to do what is necessary to make this effective, they probably already have national representation that is voting for smaller gov’t.
So again it comes down to the voting public. I am afraid this gets us no closer to small gov’t. But it should provide for an intesting discussion.
You almost get to a point of where the loyalty of the police and national guard lie.
Last time taxes were nullified by a state, congress authorized military force against the state. Do you think Pelsose and the Dems in congress are crazy enough to legislate military force against a state in modern times?[/quote]
I do not. I also do not think they would have to. Aiding and abetting a known criminal is already punishable. Like all things they control, it is not hard for them to get coersed compliance.
Let’s start with a business. This business sells goods outside of the state they reside. While they may be safe inside their own boarders, anyone caught doing business with them outside of their state could be prosecuted if the state they reside in doesn’t have the same protections.
Let’s now say that this same business decides the risk is too high and decides to pay taxes. What happens to them if they hire non-tax paying citizens of their home state? What happens to them if they refuse to garnish wages of non-taxpaying employees? Probebly the same thing. They are safe inside their own state but others outside of their state will not do business with them if they fear federal repercussions.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
I do not. I also do not think they would have to. Aiding and abetting a known criminal is already punishable. Like all things they control, it is not hard for them to get coersed compliance.
Let’s start with a business. This business sells goods outside of the state they reside. While they may be safe inside their own boarders, anyone caught doing business with them outside of their state could be prosecuted if the state they reside in doesn’t have the same protections.
Let’s now say that this same business decides the risk is too high and decides to pay taxes. What happens to them if they hire non-tax paying citizens of their home state? What happens to them if they refuse to garnish wages of non-taxpaying employees? Probebly the same thing. They are safe inside their own state but others outside of their state will not do business with them if they fear federal repercussions.
[/quote]
I disagree, especially if some citizens/businesses continue to pay the feds. You are making it your responsibility to check the taxes of everyone you do business with. Not to mention it isn’t a crime until after the current year. So currently paying taxes or not isn’t the illegality we are talking about.
Another wrench to throw in would be the oil exports. are you suggested the feds would start forcing refineries/gas companies to start rejecting large portions of our domestically produced oil? Would it be large enough impact to run up gas prices?
[quote]haney1 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
Don’t get too far ahead of your self. Perry is no friend to the Citizen. He is simply gearing up for a soon to be hotly contested primary. Since many conservatives don’t care for him he is trying to play to them.
political ploy[/quote]
We’ll take it! even if it is only a ploy. There are other states doing this as well. I posted a thread about Montana not too long back that was of the same bent. There was unanimous consent in the MT legislature regarding state’s sovereignty.
This is going to be a civil war unlike any other…we will not be able to call “North vs. South”. This is the fed versus everyone else.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Last time taxes were nullified by a state, congress authorized military force against the state. Do you think Pelsose and the Dems in congress are crazy enough to legislate military force against a state in modern times?[/quote]
Yes. Check out the Drudge front page.
DHS is warning about “Right Wing Radicals” – but there were no warnings before BHO got elected? Curious.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.[/quote]
We’re going to build a wall…and you have to apply for a TX passport…or be forced to be seen as an illegal alien.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
We’re going to build a wall…and you have to apply for a TX passport…or be forced to be seen as an illegal alien. [/quote]
I would have figured yall would have already done that on the southern boarder.
I have family there, does that change anything?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
We’re going to build a wall…and you have to apply for a TX passport…or be forced to be seen as an illegal alien.
I would have figured yall would have already done that on the southern boarder.
I have family there, does that change anything?[/quote]
Maybe. Let me ask you this: Do you recognize the greatness that is Frito pie???
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.
We’re going to build a wall…and you have to apply for a TX passport…or be forced to be seen as an illegal alien.
I would have figured yall would have already done that on the southern boarder.
I have family there, does that change anything?[/quote]
If property rights determine who should be allowed access to real estate then it should never matter who goes where – for example, you can only be somewhere if you are invited to be there in the first place.
When the state is allowed to own property – and by the way, the government cannot own property; they can only hire other people to take care of it – all of this goes out the window because the government could never guard all of its “property” more efficiently than the private individual could his own property.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I disagree, especially if some citizens/businesses continue to pay the feds. You are making it your responsibility to check the taxes of everyone you do business with.
[/quote]
Nope. I am sure the feds would let you know you are doing business with a felon and allow you to make the appropriate changes. The question here would be wether or not they could do this if the person or business in questions was never convicted becuase the state protected them.
Correct. The point I am making is that the state can only protect you if you are in the state. Others outside the state can be coerced to not to business with you fairly easily.
Not sure I follow you on this one. If a gas refinery or oil producer that only existing in a protected state was not paying taxes, the feds could certainly make it very painful to do business outside of the protected state.
We are talking about severe federal disobediance here. I cannot see the feds allowing it.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Now all that governor has to do is tell the citizens of Texas to quit paying income taxes.
That’s what I’m waiting for… oh please oh please oh please. I’ll start a job search out there if that happens.[/quote]
Me, you, and Chuck Norris.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Correct. The point I am making is that the state can only protect you if you are in the state. Others outside the state can be coerced to not to business with you fairly easily.
[/quote]
This is a good point to bring up but I think that if Texas does this the states surrounding it will too. Texas is big and everybody does business with or in Texas – especially in the south.
If the other larger population states (largest income tax supporters) got on board the feds couldn’t fuck with anyone. They probably wouldn’t even be effective with using military force if this were to happen either.
The biggest risks would be that states like CA and NY would be too resistive to this change. I could see it happening in places like FL and OH, and maybe MI too.
I hope all state representatives everywhere start rereading the Constitution and questioning the obvious usurpations of power being made by the fed, now and in the past.
Enough is enough already.