Ive been on trt for years and a long term roider before that and mine dont seem excessively small if i think honestly about it. They where never massive in my opinion but i was a big lad well before steroids so must have been working well enough lol
The best indicators of deficiency are sign og hertoghe, suborbital edema, cold extremites, tired in the morning, excessive upper respiratory infections and the best and fastest is to check achilles tendon reflex. If itâs slow, start investigating. Of course there is myxedema, kyphosis, hyperlordosis blah blah blah. The first I mentioned are best.
Forget about body temp. not a useful diagnostic tool.
Im so glad we cleared that up about hcg and fsh and lh. I thought i was going mad lol. I thought the achy balls and moody bitch was all in my head lol
Thank you for this. I will need to look up what half of it means lol but will do promptly. As for cold extremities yes my hands and feet are like ice constantly and yes ive gotten more chest infections in the last 2 years than my entire life!
Thanks you
One more quick point that may be controversial as i head off to work. You being a big lad is the basis. The sex steroids are metabolized when you use the target tissue . They arenât just sitting in the background metabolizing at steady state. In other words at 200 pound guy with dating 3 chics need much more than the celebite monk that reads all day.
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I can probably post some photos. Itâs interesting to post photos of past leaders. The signs of elevated gh are the most promint. in their later years you can identify thyrod, test, estrogen, cortisol aldosterone etc. Once I do this you will see it in everyone. Your girlfriend/wife will get tired of hearing about it.
I found a pituitary adenoma in one of my kids friends just by looking at her face. I didnât say anything because I thought it wasnât proper, she was subjected to chemo and hallucinating with terrible side effects. Turns out they misdiagnosed. If I would have said something it could have possibly saved her much grief. So now I am not shy about it. This issue backs up the docs not understanding basic endocrinology. If I can diagnose by looking at her for 2 mins when she is playing with the kids at a party and get some basic info from my bride, then there is something very wrong.
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Im a natural 220lb farmer, who believes himself to be a viking, with a lifelong sex addiction that liked to throw down as a younger man (and still does in the ring for fun) so yes my body has always had the demand lol.
Please post away as much as possible i welcome all help and insight. I will throw up a head shot if you can diagnose something just from that lol
Agreed. No doubt you may need higher doses - 300 - 500 wk. Yes I know that is a bit high.
You can do this for decades as long as estradiol is controlled and you are watching inta-meda thickness of the carotid. Of course elevated red blood cells (hemo and hematocrit) are the most imprtant factor to watch.
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The best ive ever felt continuously was on 200mg test e a week. I was just concerned it may have health drawbacks in the long term.
Thank you so much for coming into my thread you have given me a lot to look into and some good guidance moving forward.
I have no idea what âinta-meda thickness of the carotidâ even is lol so google here i come but will fully absorb all i can and be sure to monitor what you have mentioned there moving forward.
In regards to test to etro ratio do you have any input?
I know I feel better when its lower and was going to shoot for 30 just from things ive read then when i did the ratio calculation (total divided by 14 and then by 20) it came out that 34 would be my ideal further backing up my goal to shoot for 30âs.
Whats your opinion of this ratio calculation idea? Cheers
I have a number of things to say and much to learn from you guys. I just noticed that I spelled something incorrectly. Above I meant to say - âIntimaâ-media thickness of the carotid.
The carotid arteries are, of course, in the neck. They provide a statistically significant makrer of overall artery health.
To put it another way - this is a non-invasive test to determine if your arteries are occluded with plaque.
By the way, I know many, many guys that are prescribed (legitimately) at least 200 mg per week and have done so for 10-15 years without a break. I see testosterone cypionate or enanthate, when maintained with trough levels in the upper quintile for a healthy young adult as a key component of any preventative medicine program
Lastly, the reference range for any lab is nothing more than the 95% confidence interval for the labâs reference group. Since the reference group are patients and few if any docs send their patients for lab work when in optimal health, itâs unlikely that the reference range reflects an accurate variance in levels for young healthy adults.
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@NH_Watts
This is very interesting. When you say lost zero size are you referring to the family jewels or lean mass?
I am not attempting to hammer you over the question. My understanding is that the testes will decrease in size when sperm production stops. Both T and E are required for spermatagenesis. Folicle Stimulating Hormone Hormone stimulates the Sertoli cells and LH stimulates the Leydig cells.
Small doses of bioidentical substances may not be enough for negative feedback however; you said no loss in size.
Any idea how your nuts shut down and then donât decrease in size?
@episodic
I order my bloodwork through a private company here in the UK so am at the mercy of their preset test packages that I have to choose from.
Based on whats being said here I feel this test I have copy and pasted would be my best option to have done next.
Would you agree?..
Tests Included
Red Blood Cells
Haemoglobin
HCT
RBC
MCV
MCH
MCHC
RDW
White Blood Cells
White Cell Count
Neutrophils
Lymphocytes
Monocytes
Eosinophils
Basophils
Clotting Status
Platelet Count
MPV
Kidney Function
Creatinine
estimated GFR
Liver Function
ALP
ALT
CK
Gamma GT
Proteins
Total Protein
Albumin
Globulin
Diabetes
HbA1c
Iron Status
Ferritin
Cholesterol Status
Triglycerides
Cholesterol
HDL Cholesterol
LDL Cholesterol
Non-HDL Cholesterol
Total/HDL Chol ratio
Thyroid Function
FT3
FT4
TSH
Hormones
Testosterone
F Test. (calc)
Oestradiol
SHBG
Prolactin
FSH
LH
Prostate Screen
PSA (Total)
Its the one that seems most relevant to what has been discussed.
Thanks
Thyroid deficiency is very easy to identify. There are many physical and mental complaints as well as physical signs of adult onset hypothyroidism. Here are the most common in each category:
Physical Complaints of Hypothyroidism
Health: Prone to ear, nose and throat infections. Weight gain. Difficultly loosing weight when dieting
Appearance: Overweight/obesity, Edema (swollen)
Energy: Fatigue in morning or when taking a rest. Feel best in evening or when physically or mentally active. Llethargy, apathy.
Temperature: Intolerance to cold, easily shivers when environmentally cool/cold.
Require supplemental warm clothing in all seasons. Poor circulation (white fingers in winter).
Intolerance to heat, inability to sweat in hot climate
Mental Complaints of Hypothyroidism
Behavior: Slowness and apathy
Mood: Morning Depression
Memory: Slow thinking and slow reactions, easily distracted, poor attention and concentration, poor memory and poor school performance
Physical Signs of Hypothyroidism
_Face: Puffy Face, loss of outer third of eyebrow (sign of hertoghe), swolen lower eyelids (sub-orbital edema), swollen lips and tongue
The swelling comes from the bodyâs inability to remove toxins. It clinically referred to as myxedema.
Elbows: Dry
Hands: Cold Hands, Swollen Hands, Excessive Laxity of the fingers (can hyperextend nearly 90 degrees toward top of hand.
Yellowish palms (carotenenia)
Brittle slow growing nails
Calves: Thick swollen calves; non-pitting edema
Feet: Cold, Swollen (pitting and non-pitting edema), Carotenenia, Flat
Heart: Bradycardia, faint heart sounds
Blood pressure: High diastolic blood pressure
Narrow differential blood pressure (small differance between systolic (upper) and diastolic (lower)
Skin: Carotenimia (yellowing of the palmes and soles)
Dry skin on face, elbows, legs
Follicular Keratosis
Tendon Reflexes:Slow Achilles tendon reflexes (pathogonomonic)
Other slow reflexes: patellar (knee)
These are the most common that practicing physicians seem to think are the most common
Editing over with bold comments seemed the most effective way to reply.
Thanks
I should mention that now im using pregnenolone tablets, 30mg each day taken first thing each morning, my mental clarity is much better and i do have more interest in life in general.
A definite improvement
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All of the information I provided was from physician training materials, Specifically the Hormone Handbook. I have been using it for about 5 years and found it incredibly helpful.
Our PCPs can come off as incredibly ignorant, yes. In reality of course they are not.
The problem that arises when they are confronted with endocrine questions, particularly when the questioning is coming from us (laymen with an interest in the subject) is that realistically we will never be satisfied. Your first round of questions will lead to lab work, then interpretation, followed by medication, follow-up examinations, medication adjustments, more lab work and possibly a different medication, adjunct or just another dose change. This, of course, will lead to more follow up exams/studies and wouldnât you know it, the season changed and itâs time to adjust your thyroid down- just slightly so our quality of life is maximized to the greatest extent possible.
At every examination, data interpretation, medication choice and the subsequent adjustments there of, will present the possibility for you to suggest, diplomatically or otherwise, that she follow your recommendations instead of hers when, in the PCPs view, no disease process exists.
We will counter her point by indicating that failure to address our complaints will result in a significant loss in quality of life as we age - as well as provide clear evidence that various endocrine deficiencies are associated with degenerative disease later in life â shockingly, they may simply not agree.
We understand that the reason for the madness is that medical model is not set up to treat chronic disease processes. Nothing on the medical planet is more chronic than the endocrine system. Since the model is not set for treating chronic disorders and the endocrine system is by itâs very nature has very few acute disorders, most of the problems associated with this area of practice will not and can not be address properly.
If you take not of the few acute problems in endocrinology (insulin shock or Addisonâs disease) they are handled fairly well.
When they are asked to address subjective problems such as my libido just isnât what it once was, they are not going to immediately punt and say something rediculous like exercise more and/or send you for a psych consult. There just isnât any way they have time (or the training in many cases) to discuss and test the nuances of an AIs impact on libido.
So, my take is that docs fall in one of two categories. 1. Those that believe the endocrine system is incredibly important to quality of life as we age. Understand that hormonal levels drop over time and restoring those to levels to those levels to the upper quartile or quintile of a young healthy adult decreases degenerative disease processes/increases quality of life and 2. Those that will cheerfully treat if (and only if) there is an objective, quantifiable disease process that will be easily recognized by their peers in under the same circumstances.
Most but not all endocrinologists fit in the latter category. We canât blame them for the existing model construct or their training and it certainly is thoughtful to recognize they get to choose what to believe. What we can do is simply choose to work with physicians that are interested in preventative medicine and in particular, those docs that believe the endocrine system plays a major role in preventing the degenerative diseases of the aged.
I hope this makes some sense and helps you get what you need from our biased medical system.
one more quick point that will add to the frustration is that TSH should be around 1. As your thyroid doesnât respond (or respond sufficiently, the signal will increase. Your doc may be more than satisfied with your TSH between 2 and 3.
If you have narrowing BP, myxedema and slow Achilles reflex my bet is that you are probable (as in positive for the deficiency). Even without the BP markers it looks like something is going sideways. No myxedema or slow reflex and I start to question validity.
Thank you for this. I will absorb properly once i finish work.
I very much appreciate you taking so much time to offer input into my thread.
Yes zero loss of testicular size. I understand (mostly) how it works and fully expected shrinkage but it just never happened and apparently doesnât with everyone. Maybe they never swelled to their potential and thus the cause of my hypogonadism but my doc never ran such tests before getting me on T. )Endos didnât like that at all). Based on all of my symptoms throughout my life it is possible Ive been low T most of my life.