Let me get to your responses. Most of the questions probably will be because of my ignorance so dont feel offended if I dont get some things. Trying to get a clear picture. I`ll try to make some sort of summary quoting every single post would be a bit inefficient.
The blender-type drinks also crossed my mind and I thinks its a good way to go. Im a bit hesitant about the whey protein. I would never worry about taking it for myself but Im not sure if it would be good for my dad. Ive no idea what`s in it… except for protein. Do I have to worry about this? Also how much protein should i think about adding here?
As for icecream, I understand this is for the extra calories but it can`t be to good health wise. I think I have to use this in moderation? Would a shake with icecream daily be a good idea?
For Poophead; My dad has the same thing going on. They treated his throat with radiation and now it`s irritated a lot. Did your dad gain any weight on the shakes? Thanks for the reply!
As for the Superfood; this sounds like good stuff. I will have to look in to it; but the the little detour this thread took gave me some good info about it already… haha. Will check it out.
Juicing veggies sounds like a good idea. Since he can take them solid now its not nescessary right now, but Ill certainly keep it in mind.
Ill look into Dr. Young. Interesting stuff. Problem is that while he might have a point. I dont feel very confident about changing my dads diet this drastically. This is what he knows and him feeling safe and good about what he is doing also counts for a lot at the end of his live. Nevertheless Ill definetly check it out some more. Any idea about why he recommends zero sugar?
Haha, thanks for the creative thinking DW3. Of course Marihuanna is readily available where I live in Amsterdam. But his appetite is not the problem. More food just doesn`t fit. And the docs have him on stronger stuff to keep away some of the pain.
I don`t trust doctors when it comes to nutrition. Look at the crap they have people in Hospitals eating. Putting them on a good diet should be a huge priority, instead they have them on bad ‘hospital food’. I went with my dad to some of his appointments and my questions about food sort of fell on deaf ears.
He has the option about going to see a nutritionist back in Holland and Ill certainly talk him into doing that (hes a very stubborn guy), but to be honest I have more trust in the collective wisdom of a forum dedicated to getting healthy. Dont think Ill feed him toothpaste if you tell me to, but you get the idea.
[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
Doctors are fucking idiots , they couldn’t cure a stubbed toe. They are the cause of cancer over prescribing everything, unable to use deductive reasoning to get to the root of the problem in any fashion.
Seek things that are gonna get to the root not just treat the symptoms.
[/quote]
Easily the dumbest thing I’ve heard in 2008. Please ignore him.
Dumb would be doctors and surgeons who cut, burn and poison a body with Chemo and Radiation and then have no concept, instruction or education in how to eat to ensure recovery and address the putrid environment of a body with cancer. Cancer is the culmination of of an unhealthy cellular system. Why does cancer come back once it’s been removed or stalled? Because the cause of the cancer is still there - you need to to get rid of it and there’s no easy way to tell someone their body is a sea of mold, putrid and fermenting cells - but think about it…cancer is a horrible ‘Dis-Ease’, so it doesn’t take much imagination to think what a cancer sufferers insides must look like. Telling a cancer sufferer to eat sugary foods is dumb…dr young is the way to go.
[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
LISTEN. I WILL TELL YOU THIS SOLID TRUTH. READ THE BOOK :::
PH MIRACLE BY Rober O Young.
THis is the only diet that I have seen cure cancer.
Its been proven that cancer spreads in a cellular acid environment. [/quote]
Diets don’t cure cancer. Last time I checked, NOTHING as of yet definitively cures cancer.
I work full-time in a cancer treatment facility as the Radiation Oncology supervisor and design and calculate radiation therapy plans.
The most important thing IMO is just that he eats whatever he can eat! Don’t force feed, as that adds to his overall physical stress and will impair his digestion.
As stated above, think calorie-dense. Blender shakes, Ensure, whatever it takes. Also consider digestive enzymes and ginger root. Cheap and easily available over here.
Has his cancer metastasized? Was his primary gastric ca? Do they have him on anti-emetics i.e. Anzamet? Keep his spirits up, try to minimize the time he spends alone, unless that’s really what he wants. Can he get out for a walk perhaps each day?
Best of luck and keep us posted.
Why can’t diet cure a cancerous condition - what do you think (often) causes it in the first instance?
Something like this will always cause a big debate - you have new researchers who will tell you a tumour is not the problem - it is actually protective and preventing the spread of spoiled cells from one to another. Just like ‘cholesterol’ is not the ‘problem’ we get told it is by mainstream medicine. I’m not for one minute saying keep a god damn tumour in, but you may see where I am coming from. I would have thought most people on T-Nation would know that we are fed crap from hungry pharma companies and that doctors often know shit about nutrition. Statins anyone - don’t insult me! I know state educated dieticians who would tell you to eat crap - and the funniest thing is they think they are right. I’m fed crap everyday from the authorities that I know is ballshit, so why should traditional cancer treatment be any different. If you think this alternative thought is some crap - then take a cancer patient to dr young and get him to do a live blood analysis…then see what happens on his diets. Most importantly for anyone with cancer - be positive.
[quote]joburnet wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
Doctors are fucking idiots , they couldn’t cure a stubbed toe. They are the cause of cancer over prescribing everything, unable to use deductive reasoning to get to the root of the problem in any fashion.
Seek things that are gonna get to the root not just treat the symptoms.
Easily the dumbest thing I’ve heard in 2008. Please ignore him.[/quote]
You want to set up a debate buddy? What is the 5th leading cause of death in the US? You didnt’ guess it ?
PHARMACALOGICAL DRUG INERACTION? for what over prescribed drugs. WHy ? because doctors have only one answer got back pain? take a pill ? sick? take antibiotics. There is no preventative medicine, HENCE COMPARE chinese medicine to western medicine, when gets at the root one gets the sympoms.
Take an asprirn for a headache, the other looks at the causes of the headache IE EICASANOID imabalance.
DOctors are flat out idiots, Id much rather deal with a holistic specialists that knows the consequences of pharmacology, drs are nothing more than pharmacists.
THose drugs effect your immune system and your bodys own natural defenses, its like killing a fly with a shotgun, or shooting at mosquitos in a s wamp you have to get rid of a swamp.
Eating ice cream and eating lots of protein is not gonna help someone when there cells have been invaded by cancer .
go ahead and DONT CHANGE YOUR DADs diet, thats why he is sick in the first place. You need to give a healing based diet if the cell systems are effected.
You should READ THE BOOK PH MIRACLE as oppossed to looking at the weblink.
Some feel that lack of cellular oxygen may be a factor leading to cancer. In 1931 Dr. Warburg won his first Nobel Prize for work proving cancer is caused by a lack of oxygen respiration in cells. He stated in “The Prime Cause and Prevention of Cancer” that the cause of cancer is no longer a mystery, we know it occurs whenever any cell is denied 60% of its oxygen requirements. So, it would be important to increase cellular oxygen levels and to take products that support the body�??s detoxification process so that the cells can stay oxygenated.
Cancer also thrives in an acidic environment, and can�??t live in an alkaline environment. Many foods and drinks the average person consumes are acidic, with the colas and other soft drinks being highly acidic. So unless you are eating a special diet, your body is way too acidic. One should switch to a more alkaline diet.
Another factor is that our enzymes get depleted from eating processed, irradiated and cooked food. Foods often don’t get completely digested and these are treated as toxins, putting an additional strain on the already overworked immune system, which is trying to deal with all the chemicals and other environmental contaminants entering the body. This further tips the body in the direction of cancer. Good quality enzyme supplements taken with meals helps make sure that food is digested. There are many websites that discuss these issues.
I know someone who had a small tumour and lymph nodes removed. When I asked them ‘have the doctors/specialists given you a diet or nutritional advice’…the answer, ‘no none at all, they have given me these drugs and I see a specialist every 3 months for a check-up’. That says it all really - as another poster has said, doctors are essentially used to treat disease with drugs. People do not know the connection between nutrition/lifestyle and cancer - and forgive me for implying this - but someone somewhere doesn’t really want people knowing this link!
If your father needs calories, then feed him an abundance of healthy fats.
You might want to try looking into polyphenolic compounds (big word easily wiki-ed). In my genetics lab we are doing work with cranberry polyphenols and their effect on apoptosis(programmed cell death) and there have been some promising results. Same can be said with gingerol (found in ginger) and capsaicin (the burny stuff in hot pepppers.) Basically the idea is that this stuff can kick start a mechanism (p52 gene, a gene that is mutated in ~50% of all tumors) in cells that quality controls DNA before cell division. When it works right it kills a cell (through apoptosis) if it finds major deleterious mutations.
So basically, it’s not a cure and most of the research is in vitro and I doubt your going to inject tabasco into your dads throat, but it couldn’t hurt. If he already likes cranberries, hot sauce or ginger encourage him to eat more.
Copy of a post I put up elsewhere, best of luck to your dad.
A quick disclaimer, I started to look into the nutritional aspects of cancer a few years ago in response to my dad’s head and neck cancer. I’m sure some of my reading/the articles I focused on were biased by my own opinions. I focused only on dietary/supplements that could be purchased w/out a prescription.
I looked at a few different areas, here they are and a couple of references, for all the subjects, go to www.pubmed.com and you will find references. I was trying to get my dad to do more of #1 and #2 and then if I got that far, then worry about #3. My dad experienced a lot of weight loss the first time, from ~200 down to 160 eventually stabilizing around 150 after a few other health issues. After the 2nd time he had cancer, his weight dropped to ~135. The third diagnosis, earlier this year, was followed by rapid cancer growth and wasting, and when he passed he was probably sub 100. Based on what I read, if I ever got cancer I would go low carb, high Omega 3s, with fruit and vegetables making up what carbs I did take in (and possibly take some the arginine and glutathione boosting supplements).
The frustration that I personally felt, was the general reluctance of the doctors to deviate from generally accepted medical practices and nutritional guidelines. I think they focused too much on just making sure he got enough calories in, and not looking at the macro breakdown of the calories and their potential impact. He obtained must of his food through a feeding port into his stomach and was unable to eat or drink much, so what he ingested was up to the doctors and nutritionist, and that tended to follow the high carb, low protein, low fat models, along with a general mentality that seemed to indicate to me that as long as he wasn’t getting any worse, there was no need to proactively change anything.
Low carbohydrate
Cancer cells preferentially like sugars, there have been some studies that show a low carb diet slows the growth of tumor cells.
Omega 3s are beneficial for a lot of reasons. Reducing Omega 6s is also a good path to take. Clinical trials are being looked at where Omega 3s are taken in conjunction with chemotherapy to improve the efficacy of the chemo drugs. A lot of the canned nutrition for patients is high in omega 6 and high in simple sugars.
Dr. Ron Pardini at U Nevada - Reno has done a lot of work, here is a case where an individual self-treated w/ Omega 3s. Specifically DHA levels were more important than EPA, and all Omega 6s were cut out of the diet.
They are doing a clinical study of resveratrol dosage and impact on healthy humans to determine side effects, one of the participating universities is University of Michigan.
Nutritional info. specific to the type of cancer my dad had:
this part is more generally applicable and supports arginine supplementation and Omega 3s and dropping 6s:
Animal studies have shown significant differences in the amino acid profile of tumor versus non-tumor bearing animals. For example, arginine has been demonstrated to be decreased in animals with tumors. It has been suggested that arginine supplementation may be beneficial to the immune system and for collagen synthesis.
Fats provide 9 kcal/g which makes them a very efficient energy source. Giving the surgical patient fat in their diets may help preserve protein stores. Two to three percent of the total caloric intake should be made up of free fatty acids. The lipid composition of tumor cell membranes responds to dietary manipulation. The fatty acids of tumor cell membranes are derived from circulating fatty acids. By increasing a patients intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids(PUFA), tumor cells can be made more sensitive to chemotherapy and hyperthermia. Changes in the tumor cell membranes may also make them more susceptible to immune cell destruction. The major dietary PUFA in the American diet is an n-6 PUFA(linoleic acid). Diets high in n-6 PUFA result in production of arachidonic acid metabolites which can have an immunosuppressive effect. Consideration should be given to diets high in n-3 PUFA�??s which can be derived from fish oils. Carbohydrate intake is also important. Diets that are high in carbohydrates may result in excessive carbon dioxide production. This can be bad for patients with COPD especially when trying to wean them from the ventilator.