Mage:
I don’t think any other American could have stated it better than in your response to Restless. Great post.
Pic of Rumsfeld and Hussein in 1983, when Rumsfeld worked for Ronald Reagan. I suppose Saddam was “not a dictator” back then?
The Mage said
“I won’t accept any links from your bogus site.”
Tough shit. Then stop responding to my posts. You obviously can’t respond based on the facts presented (from legitimate news sources) so if you want to make some excuses and wiggle out of discussion, be my guest.
You say that I never responded to your charge that the website I cited is “Anti-American”. As you like to say, that is just your “opinion”. I and most other Americans do not consider dissent to be “Anti-American” in fact it is my God-given right as an American. Funny how we are supposed to be “giving freedom to Iraq” while trying to take it away from Americans.
“What county can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance.”
– Thomas Jefferson
DISSENT IS NOT ANTI-AMERICAN. The reason I didn’t bother responding to your charges before, is that they are dumb charges. Sorry!
You said "Some idiots are trying to ask, “What did we do to cause this attack?”
This just proves that you have a “shut up and close your eyes” attitude. Let me remind you that those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Unfortunately you seem to have a real problem with people who ask a lot of questions… tough shit!
Regarding your “invest in oil companies” suggestion, you still don’t get it. Why would I invest in a business that I thought was corrupt and using it’s power and connections to influence foriegn policy, to the extent that we attack countries to protect corporate interests? Have you ever heard of “morals” or does money trump all those concerns?
By the way, have you learned what a “neo-conservative” is yet? LOL. Please do not lecture me if you do not know the basic facts. You say there is “no connection” between Halliburton contracts and Cheney. DUH??? Before Cheney became Vice President he was the Halliburton CEO, up until the year 2000. If you can’t see a link there you live in a fantasy world.
DISSENT IS NOT ANTI-AMERICAN. However, you seem to prefer Fascism, where any negative comments are silenced.
restless,
I have been away for a few days. This is unfortunate for the rest of the posters. I see you have run amok again. Mage, I will hold him down, you keep pounding him!!!
restless, let’s return to where we were before I left. First of all, restless was raised in a country that banned facism in 1974. You cannot shake off 50 years of facism like a wet raincoat. Therefore, whether restless was born after 1974 or before, he has spent the majority of his life surrounded by elders(who taught restless’ during his dubious education) who either participated in facism or who were indoctrinated in it. Therefore, it is fairly safe to assume that those ideas still managed to permeate his brain. restless, spends his time denying the horrors of his home country. Remember, these events are very recent. He does this by trying to distance himself from his home country. It’s easy for him to say he doesn’t support his country. It’s far harder for him to recognize the subliminal signs that clearly show us that he is not only acutely aware of the violence and repression inherent in his country’s recent past, but he tries to atone for it in various ways. Look at his recent post, “In a nutshell, you can’t keep showing a total lack of respect for other nations opinions, beliefs, culture and ways of life, not to mention for human life, and expect everyone to respect you back. It doesn’t work like that: When and IF your country starts showing some consideration for the rest of the world things might slowly change but your arrogant attitude and nationalistic pride will prevent this from happen.”
He is not talking about the United States, he is talking about PORTUGAL!!! Look at it. Read it. Remember that they were the last real colonial european power. They fought a protracted colonial war with countless atrocities committed deep in the 1970’s!!! They had at least one active concentration camp off the coast of Portugal into the 1970’s!!! Remember when he talks about respecting people’s cultures and beliefs, that countless thousands died in marches, disease, and warfare precipitated and propogated by PORTUGAL!!! When he talks about “arrogant attitude and nationalistic pride” he is talking about salazar and his absolute refusal to give up the colonies. Remember the mass independence movements taking place after World War II? Portugal “arrogantly” refused to consider colonial independence until 1974.
Now put yourself in restless’ shoes. Imagine looking across the Atlantic and seeing a country that gives 60% of the FREE AID to the world every year. That is one country!!! Imagine him sitting down and realizing that he is not speaking russian or german because of our troops and our Marshall/Truman plan. Imagine his discomfort when he realizes how many people die each day trying to enter the United States. Can you imagine how he feels when he sees the Iraqi people cheering and protesting in the street. How about when he realizes that we encourage non-violent protests AGAINST US?!? We actually believe the ideals for which we stand.
To sum it up, restless is a poor, lost soul.
Lumpy:
Are you a complete moron? Do I need to translate? Again? You apparently do not understand this term “Anti-American.” You keep getting it mixed up with “Un-American.” Should I call it a “Put down America” site? Or an “Avoid anything positive about America” site?
The term “Anti” is the position of this sites opinions. He is not “Pro”.
“Anti” means he is negative about the subject, he is not positive.
“Anti” means his opinions are against the subject of his writing and links.
Is there something that I am not explaining to you properly? Please let me know why you cannot grasp the concept of this little word.
Hablas ingles? Sprichst du Englisch?
Est-ce que tu parles anglais?
Dicisne Anglice? Ty govorish po-angliski?
Waweza kusema Kiingereza? 'Olelo 'oe Pelekane?
Milate Anglika? Aya shoma Engalisi midanid?
Eigo ga hanasemasu ka? O senhor fala ingles?
Redt ir english? Haim ata medaber anglit? Aap angrazee boltay hain? Uyasikhuluma isingisi na?
LOL, I rolled around laughing reading that US=GG post. I couldn’t force myself to read that crap to the end but the bit I read was funny nevertheless.
I tell you this much,if anything, I’m more qualified than any of you to recognize a fascist, and I’ve seen a few in this forum. I’ve also seen it in many things done by the US troops in Iraq but fuck it, I’m doing my part, do yours. Vote for that retard again and let him lead your country straight to the toilet by ruining your economy while taking advantage of your paranoias to convince you he’s doing anything at all other than to serve his and his friends interests.
If anyone has anything interesting to say I all hears but as it is, this discussion is dead for me.
The Mage!! You can use a translation engine!! What a box of surprises you are…
restless,
You are supplying me with an endless supply of things to analyze. Your true colors keep shining right through. I have to include your entire last post for analysis.
“LOL, I rolled around laughing reading that US=GG post. I couldn’t force myself to read that crap to the end but the bit I read was funny nevertheless.
I tell you this much,if anything, I’m more qualified than any of you to recognize a fascist, and I’ve seen a few in this forum. I’ve also seen it in many things done by the US troops in Iraq but fuck it, I’m doing my part, do yours. Vote for that retard again and let him lead your country straight to the toilet by ruining your economy while taking advantage of your paranoias to convince you he’s doing anything at all other than to serve his and his friends interests.”
If anyone has anything interesting to say I all hears but as it is, this discussion is dead for me.
First of all, thanks for admitting that you are very familiar with facists. By acknowledging your background, we can move forward to therapy. Give this a try: repeat United States=Good Guys at least 15 times a day. After a while, the freshness of this idea will start to remove the foul vapors of your “education.”
Second, I don’t want you to type things like “I all hears.” It makes you seem cheap.
Third, you need to acknowledge that other people may be right and you may be dead wrong. Read the posts. Open your mind. If you don’t, then you end up acting like a facist.
Finally, I want to ask you two very simple questions. I want you to answer them directly. No dodging or changing the subject will do. Remember, we are now working on therapy. I want you to start unlearning your previous bad habits. restless, if George W. Bush’s main objective was naked aggression and oil, why not dominate our own hemisphere first? There is plenty of oil right here in the neighborhood. The second question is this: Why are we going to leave Iraq now that we have control of the country? Why restless? Is it because of the objections of people like you? What a laugh. Is there a country or combinations of countries that could compel us to leave? Not a chance. Your own european union did a study that showed that all the combined battle fleets on the planet COULD NOT SINK A SINGLE UNITED STATES CARRIER BATTLE GROUP!!!
Here it is, the undeniable truth, because the United States=Good Guys. We practice what we preach.
Us=GG, man, I’m not even reading most of your posts anymore. Therapy? You surely are as arrogant as they come, I’ll tell you…
Golly gee, STILL no weapons of mass destruction found!
I thought Iraq posed an “imminent threat” to our safety?
Isn’t that why we are spent EIGHTY BILLION DOLLARS destroying their infrastructure?
Apparently it’s okay to kill a few foreigners, to “send a message” and maintain our SUVs.
On the homefront, Patriot Act will legalize “Big Brother” 1984-style surveillance and spying on US citizens.
Meanwhile state governments face the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Everyone I know feels LESS SAFE because of this war.
Good times!
Somehow this got posted to it’s own separate thread in some unnamed topic area, so I will try again
Lumpy:
This “is are am be” NOT the only reason we spent “EIGHTY BILLION DOLLARS,” and we didn’t destroy their infrastructure. In fact it is still mostly intact, and what was damaged is being repaired, and even improved. We also freed a people you apparently do not care about, and stopped the training of thousands of terrorists, including capturing one terrorist who attacked Americans on a cruse ship and was being protected by Iraq. Immanent threat? Oh hell yeah.
“Golly gee, STILL no weapons of mass destruction found!” We were supposed to believe that we didn’t give the UN enough time to finish their search, and yet the Americans are supposed to finish in weeks after the war, which is still being fought in some areas. I guess that the mobile chemical weapons lab, and the missiles that were sent repeatedly into Kuwait which Iraq said they didn’t have is not evidence.
“On the homefront, Patriot Act will legalize “Big Brother” 1984-style surveillance and spying on US citizens.” Do you know that Orwell was interested in communism, and after finding out about it became one big opponent of communism? 1984 was not the original name. The publisher was unhappy with the original name of 1948. This government has checks and balances, which you apparently know nothing about, and doubt that all of this legislation will stand up in court.
“Meanwhile state governments face the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.” Really? You have repeatedly shown your lack of understanding of economic issues. The economy is showing good signs, the unemployment rate at worst recently would have been called a positive booming economic indicator in the past. One of the biggest causes (but not the only one) of the depression was that banks were able to call mortgage loans due at a moments notice, and started doing just that. They can no longer do this. And this is only one of many changes made to prevent the depression from occurring again. (Nothing is impossible, but we are nowhere near a depression.) Just wait and see where the US is in a year. As long as no major events occur (hey, I am not psychic) then the economy will be booming right along.
I don’t care how your friends “feel.” And again you avoid my question about your favorite site. Either you are unable to find anything positive, or you actually don’t understand my statement. Read it again.
Mage, I have some questions for you, and a couple of trivial corrections. I am curious why you choose the non de plume, Mage. I notice that the other contributors have screen names that are more light hearted and frivolous.
Your views on history seem somewhat informed, but there are also some lapses. In one your earlier arguments you asked four questions for which there straightforward answers.
- Why didn’t we take the oils fields in the first gulf War?
Answer, according to the Under Secretary of State who was a member of the George Seniors administration (and a refreshingly blunt, gruff; and absolutely no neck) recently explained that we did not go into Iraq in Gulf because of an agreement with Saudis who very concerned about the fissioning of the country and the bordering Shia population. Their fear was that the Iranian Fundamentalist Revolution would quickly spread creating a more serious threat than a weakened Saddam. Also, Powell explained that there were two significant reasons why the war was stopped when it was. First was because of the just war doctrine of proportionality. On an ethical basis, the slaughter of Iraqis had reached a point where if were continued, it would have been unconscionable. Second, he also explained that that the UN mandate only allowed for the liberation of Kuwait, not the occupation of Iraq. Third, because there was an acute awareness of the impossibility of maintaining a long term occupation force. They did not believe there would be political support. The mistakes that were made were Swarzkopf’s error in judgment at allowing air operations to continue in Iraq. Second was Bush’s call for insurrection of the Kurds and the Shiites to rise up against Saddam, implying that the US would support them. When they did rise up they got no air support to prevent the slaughter and suppression Saddam was able to pull off.
By the way, the US has made that mistake three times during the past fifty years to their extraordinary dishonor. First, Kennedy’s withdrawal of air support for the Cuban invasion. Second, even more dishonorable, withdrawing air support for the South Vietnamese in the 1973 invasion and the betrayal of thousands to whom we had promised (not incited) we would never abandon. In my mind the most disgraceful act we have committed during the period under consideration. Third, our repetition of the same thing in Iraq which I discussed above. These betrayals are probably the most disturbing events in recent US history.
My reason for these details is to bring into focus some of your comments trivializing a concern about history. A careful study of events like these are very informative. They open our eyes to important blunders that have far reaching consequences. I have many examples that would raise public awareness. For example, the greatest blunder of the Viet Nam war was our mistaken belief that it was an ideological contest when it was really the third Indochinese war fought by the Viet Namese to free their nation from imperialist domination. It was a very strong nationalist movement, much stronger than ideological motivations that concerned the US. I mention this because we may very well be repeating the same error of judgment in the Middle East.
Back to your four questions.
- How does flooding the market, causing oil prices to fall help the oil industry?
Obviously, it will not help the US oil industry, but the political problem is to reduce our dependency on the Saudi’s, which means to find other sources. Part of the plan is to develop Russian production capacity. Bringing Iraqi production back into the market and developing the Russian capabilities will reduce the dominance of the Saudi’s in OPEC and will reduce the insult to Islam of having infidels in the most holy place in Islam (Bin Laden’s rationale behind Jihad). It will also reduce revenues flowing into Islamic coffers that have financed much of the terrorist war that we are currently engaged in. The Saudi’s have been very supportive of maintaining control of world prices, but not for the love of the US: the economic consequences of not doing so will devastate their own economies over the long run.
One theme in your comments that I thoroughly agree with is that we are engaged in a full scale war that we must vigorously prosecute. The problem with these things is losing site of how we should go about doing it. Think about what would have happened if we had taken the moral high ground in Iran in 1953, or, for that matter in Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1979? I believe that our participation in that aggression was horrible, no matter what the threat the Iranians presented. I also believe that our most shining moments occur when we, as a nation, take the moral high ground. Our most dismal failures occur when we descend into Machiavellian machinations. We need to keep our moral compass before us, even if it seems to put us at greater risk than we would like to be.
- Mage said: "When have we ever taken over a country, and taken their oil in the past 100 years? (The oil industry really did not exist before that.) "
Iran, 1953. The specific reason that the CIA engineered the coup was because of the British fears that Mosaddegh was moving toward nationalizing the Shell oil company and seizing British oil assets in Iran, an event that was of great concern to the US. The story is actually quite interesting because the CIA pulled it off by infitrating a wrestling clique in a local bazaar in Tehran. Also, the stated foreign policy reason for Gulf 1 was to prevent Saddam from invading Saudi Arabia and taking control of the majority of most of the world’s oil supply. It would have made Saddam a regional superpower had he pulled it off. Also, there are many other coups that the CIA has been directly responsible for occurring. Guatemala, for the stated reason of protecting United Fruit’s control of the banana market. Chili for the fear of the threat of Allende forming a communist government. One of the most serious errors of the century was the engineering of the murder of Diem and his brother causing the subsequent invasion by North Viet Namese regular troops and the great expansion of war (causing the commitment of the massive build of US regulars). The list of CIA adventures goes on, but my point is that the US has a long history of egregious interventions that resulted in slaughters on an incredible scale, literally millions of people. If you are unable to get this information for yourself, just ask, and I will provide the documentation. By the way, the oil industry was thriving in the last half of the 19th century.
I would point out other comments that might improve your arguments by more careful deliberation. My point is this: trivializing history is a dangerous undertaking. The first thing fascists do when they come into power is to revise history. (BTW, there was a newspaper article published just this morning that the Republican majority, having recently come into power in Texas has a bill before their legislature to require the removal of all text books that have any negative statements about US history.) Losing sight of the KKK and the Nazis, and the rest of the murderous regimes that the US has stood against (even our misadventure in Viet Nam had the righteous purpose of standing against an ideology that was responsible for more than 160 million deaths in the twentieth century) is one of the worst things we could do, individually or as a nation. Perhaps the most redeeming thing that comes out of Gulf 2 is the overthrow of Saddam and his representation of the evils of fascism. None of us should ever diminish in our vigilance to these horrors. The lesson of history is this: the more one reads and studies, the more the fact of the enduring brutality of the ages surfaces into awareness. Anyone who has hope for the human race needs to know what they are up against.
The polemics of this thread have been fun to watch. I will assert the conjecture that none of you will come to agreement on the basic issues. The values are too fundamental to your values and world views. The positive aspect is the intensity of the expression of the different views and the healthy exposure to the diverse and pluralistic society that we live in.
It will be interesting to see where it goes.
(BTW Mage, you commented earlier that the Democrats were in controll of the majority of the 20 century. The Republicans held control of the presidency for 55 years in the twentieth century, as you can see, a bit more than the Democrats. I will let you calculate the Congressional representation, but I believe you will be surprised.)
hello Macfly… anybody home? It boggles my mind on how all of us supposedly Intelligent people here, can sit and bicker and argue and make total asses out of themselves and not even realize that they all sound like fucking static! GROW UP! And I don’t mean age wise or hieght wise either, some of you really have the emotional capacity of a 4 year old. This is one of the worst pissing contests I have seen all year. Since when do T-Men and T-Vixens piss on eachoter or anybody else for that matter for fun? I feel bad for some of you because it seems some here live with a lot of fear and hate. … Well here’s for hoping some of you see the folly of this type of mindset, and to all of us thinking more positively about all things.
“You can take my freedom, You can take my body, You can take my mind… But you will NEVER TAKE MY PRIDE!” - Prince Vegita
If I put myself in the shoes of a father
or mother, whos kids got killed in collateral damage. I think I would feel hostile towards the country / person / organization who did it.
How many Iraqi lives would be acceptable collateral damage? 10,000
15,000?
Just curious
Batty my crazy friend: My nom de plume is due to the fact I am a magician. Part time right now.
My questions are in response to the statements that the only reason we went to war is only to take oil, or to free up the oil for our consumption. There are good reasons, but none that would in any way help the oil industry. The first question was important because people made the exact same argument 13 years ago. Rather then say they were wrong 13 years ago, they just say the exact same thing.
You are right that we didn’t support the people trying to overthrow Saddam. It took us 13 years to fulfill a promise. This is one of many things in the past America cannot be proud of. Most though are stupid mistakes, like underestimating the size of the Vietnamese army. Since then we try to overdo the military, so we learned from that. It was wrong to abandon Vietnam, but politically there was no way to sustain the war.
Technically we have occupied Iraq for the past 13 years.
I have never trivialized history. When talking about Iraq, why bring in dozens of different historical events? And twice people have gone back 2000 years to Ancient Rome. This is an arguing technique that is wrong. It seems to be correct, but unless you have a proper allegory (not former Vice Prez) then the only reason is to change the focus of the argument and get off subject. I discussed Vietnam above, but other then it being a war, what connection is there? Different time, different politics, different people. If we are allowed to just dip into history, why not bring up the Incas? Real American History? Did you know that the original inhabitants of America were the Aborigines? There are only two known Aborigine/American Indian descendants alive. The Aborigines were displaced by American Indians. (If anyone cares, American Indians have been polled, and a majority actually prefer to be called American Indian over Native Americans, so don’t give me any pc crap.)
Have I gone off subject enough? See where this takes us? Somebody tried to bring up the Nuking of Japan, but never mentioned the atrocities committed by this Japan. And yes there were atrocities. Does anyone know about the Nanjing massacre with the killing of 300,000 civilians and POW’s? How about the use of Chinese citizens for bayonet practice? Now what does all of this have to do with Iraq? Where is the analogy? Maybe the rape and torture of people similar to what Saddam did?
I do believe that in this case we have really kept our moral compass. We did the right thing in Iraq. And they might put an extreme government in place. This is a risk that may occur. We will try to diplomatically prevent it, but if that is what the majority wants, and they get a democracy, they could end up with an extremist government that will hate America. Then again they could end up with a powerful positive government with good moral ideals. And an ally.
Your response to question 2 proves my point that it would not be good for the oil industry to flood the market. Although you state that we are trying to get off of Mid-East oil, and that is true. Many are tired of us giving Billions to the Mid-East to keep us moving, only to have that same money given to terrorists to try to kill us. “Thanks for the money, now I must kill you.” But the Mid-East is already shrinking in oil power. Other sources are available, and technology keeps advancing making it easier to get to oil that previously was not reachable. It is believed that there is oil at the bottom of the oceans that is much greater then all of the Mid-East. I believe that technology has just gotten to the point where we can get to this oil, but they are still waiting for a variety of reasons.
On three, in any of the events you mentioned, did we actually take oil? Not just try to effect, or change a market, or some other nature? Ok, I don’t have the history of the 1953 Iran event you talked about, but did we go in and steal the oil?
Again I have never trivialized history, just the misapplication of it, and the twisting of facts to support a dissimilar argument. The mistakes of the farmers of the past helped cause the “Great Dust Bowl” of the 1930’s, but this has nothing to do with Iraq. Why should we discuss it? Am I trivializing it by not discussing it? What you don’t seem to understand is that the ploy of bringing up improperly connected events, or completely unrelated ones that completely change the subject, is just a ploy of bad debaters, except that it works well on people if you can get them to follow you down the wrong path. It is an attempt to lead away into another discussion, and then into another, until one is found that will win the argument. For example, why are we debating debating itself? Have we gone down this path to enter into a completely different argument? What happened to Iraq? What does this have to do with Iraq? (Again.)
And finally the 20th Century was a very strongly Democratic century. How often have the House, the Senate, and the Presidency been controlled by Democrats, and how often by Republicans? Rarely has all three of these bodies been controlled by Republicans. That has given the Democrats a strong edge throughout the 20th Century. And the President is only as powerful as congress allows him to be. I almost think the Idea of a President was just to take attention away from the Congress.
Oh and I have had my mind changed in the past. I use to support high carb diets after all. (I am so ashamed.) I have spent my time here not just discussing, but also thinking about what I believe and why. If anyone gave me a real reason to change my opinion about the war, I would give it serious thought. It is not my goal to be right, it is to be correct. (I hope you understand that statement.)
tassen: “How many Iraqi lives would be acceptable collateral damage? 10,000 15,000?”
One less then Saddam Hussein would have killed.
The Mage,
My God, your last post was breathtaking. The collateral damage quote was right on. Hey bad guys out there, beware of The Mage. He is one cool customer.
“When talking about Iraq, why bring in dozens of different historical events?”
Because my problem is with the USA foreign policy, Iraq is just the most recent event. You think all should be forgotten?
Restless:
Your statement gives insight into your thoughts. The US does what any other country would do. Support it’s own interests. This does not always look good, but I doubt all facts ever get out until much later.
So your problem is not with the US attacking Iraq, but with our foreign policy? Why are you discussing in the war threads then?
Once again it seems you are placing blame on America for all of the worlds ills. I know that all of what America has done cannot be praised, but why not complain about the North Korea foreign policy then? Their policy is give us money or we will use the bomb.
Many have complained about America using a nuke on Japan at the end of WWII, but understanding the mindset of imperial Japan, their belief was to never give up. The use of that bomb actually resulted in less loss of lives. Then after the war, what did we do? We helped rebuild Japan. Take a good look at Japan today. I think America should be proud of what we accomplished there, and this is not the only time we have done this.
Because we are so willing to help an “enemy” after a war, an intelligent friend of mine has said, “The best thing to happen to a country is to be invaded by the US.” Now you will call this “arrogance,” regardless of it’s accuracy.
What bothers you is that what America does is for the benefit of Americans. And not being an American you cannot benefit. I would hate to see what the world would be like if we were not involved. Every country acts in it’s own self-interest. This may not appeal to your ideal, but it is the way the world works. When you have two countries negotiate anything, each country comes in with an offer that is very beneficial to themselves. These countries will negotiate until they meet somewhere in the middle. This often results in more balanced results. Each country will benefit, even though they both got less then their ideal.
Our country will always work toward the benefit of itself. Just like any other country, and any other leader. The best negotiators in America teach that the best way to negotiate is win/win. You get what you want by helping others get what they want. Sometimes you might not be able to see the big picture, and know the benefit of an action. Then again I am not going to be blind and say everything we have done has gone perfect. I wish it had, but that would be impossible. The one thing I can say is that we are trying our best. And nobody can expect anything more.
Back in May DUSTIN said:
[quote]I was going to stay out of this thread but you went a tad too far. He will be eliminated, and everything that our government said in regards to Saddam’s regime will be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt (possession of WMD, crimes against humanity, etc).
[/quote]
Hm… Well, where are those WMDs? I am sure that this thread is full of predictions by the “good guys” that we are still waiting with bated breath to come true. I just re-read some of these old war threads and this one in particular jumped out at me.
The war wasn’t about WMD after all, haven’t you heard?
It was to bring stabilty to the region.
It was to return Iraqi resources to the Iraqi people.
It was to capture or kill Saddam Hussein.
It was to decrease terrorism in the world.
Too bad NONE of these things have happened!
Roy,
You singled my post out and asked a fair question. Hopefully, this thread can be re-buried after this.
“Hm… Well, where are those WMDs?”
Most likely moved out of the country. Some reports are saying in Syria. Iraq had them, France, Germany, and Russia admitted that Iraq possessed WMD's. *If* there are still WMD's hidden in Iraq they'll be found. The U.S. gave the U.N 10 years to make Saddam comply. Coalition forces have been in Iraq for about 6 months. Give it time.
I could care less if weapons are found. I honestly don't care. Now, for the sake of the Bush Administration, I hope they do find weapons at some point. If Bush wants to be re-elected the WMD issue is something that he'll have to resolve at some point in the near future.
I personally, would like some sort of explaination by the end of the year, if they are not found. Namely, where are they and what is going to be done about it. Either way, I'm going to vote for Bush in 2004. The Demoncat candidates are a joke.
Dustin